Ep. #1078 - Entrepreneur Magazine Editor Jason Feifer

Matt DeCoursey 0:01
And we’re back back for another episode of Startup Hustle, Matt DeCoursey here to have another conversation, I’m hoping helps your business grow. You’ve been to the grocery store, you’ve been to the newsstand. And you’ve certainly seen Entrepreneur Magazine, I think we all have, it’s been a for me, it’s on many coffee tables, bookshelves. Some and in some cases, maybe even propping up coffee tables or bookshelves after they’ve been read that I find a lot entrepreneurs find uses for all of the tools around them. We’re going to talk about that and so many things today on Startup Hustle. Before I introduce today’s guest says episode Startup Hustle is powered by full scale.io. Hiring software developers is difficult and Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably and has the platform to help you manage that team go to full scale.io. To learn more, in case you didn’t know that’s my company and I we love talking to Startup Hustle guests, and listeners. So if you get a chance to reach out only takes about two minutes to fill out the form and tell us what you need help with with me today. I’ve got Jason Pfeiffer and Jason is the editor in chief at Entrepreneur Magazine. You can learn more about Jason at Jason pfeiffer.com. And that might not be spelled the way you expect it to. So just scroll on down to the shownotes. And click that link so you can learn a little bit more about him why we have today’s conversation straight out of Brooklyn, New York. Jason, welcome to Startup Hustle.

Jason Feifer 1:25
Thank you for having me.

Matt DeCoursey 1:27
Yeah, I’m excited to have this conversation. As I mentioned, I think so many of us grew up reading the magazine that you put so much blood, sweat and tears, and you also participate in several podcasts. And you know, I think that backstory and all that info would be best presented by us. So here’s the mark.

Jason Feifer 1:46
Okay, very good. Yeah, it’s an absolute honor to be the editor in chief of an entrepreneur. Because as I find and talk to entrepreneurs, this brand has meant so much to so many people it is often the thing that they flip through as they were just thinking about becoming an entrepreneur, it is the thing that they still check in with to make sure that they feel sharp sharpened of mind. Anyway, who am I so my quick background is that I came up through media, I worked at a lot of different magazines, Fast Company, Men’s Health, and so on. And when I got to entrepreneur, honestly, I saw it as a media project, because that was my background, I’m going to come here and we are going to think about how to continue to evolve this brand, make it as relevant as possible, I saw a major opportunity in making sure that we were speaking to the current culture of entrepreneurship, because the word entrepreneur has for so long meant a pretty narrow thing. And now it doesn’t now it is something that people use as an identity as a mindset. And so there’s a big opportunity to speak to that. But I will tell you, as I have been an entrepreneur since 2015, speaking with entrepreneurs, getting to understand how they think has absolutely changed the way that I think too. And it redefined me in the way in which I now think and act very much like an entrepreneur too. I have my own media company. I produce a lot of products. You mentioned some of them, newsletter, podcast, book, speaking, I do a lot of consulting. And I have really come to believe and now champion that everybody can benefit from the way of thinking like an entrepreneur. And the way that entrepreneurs are adaptable, the way that they turn walls into doors, the way that they think vertically. This is important stuff for absolutely anybody. And it’s the reason why I am now propelled to do thing that I do, which is to produce amazing things that are going to help people and also travel the country talking to people from high school students, which is what I was doing in Cleveland yesterday to senior executives to help them think the way that the smartest people I get to meet think

Matt DeCoursey 4:01
so you mentioned in 2015 Joining the staff and entrepreneur, and the change in mindset, had you not done much or any entrepreneurial things prior to that was it that profound of an impact?

Jason Feifer 4:15
Well, I did things that I didn’t think of as entrepreneurial, but that in looking back, I would now say follow the entrepreneur mindset. So for example, I have redefined myself throughout my career a number of times I’ve taken very large risks. I had always I had come to this idea earlier in my career that didn’t have a name for but now I do what’s called work your next job and working next job to me is this. I think that everybody has two sets of opportunities in front of them opportunity set a opportunity set the opportunity set A is everything that’s asked of you. So if you if you have a job and you have a boss, then the thing that the boss needs of you every day is opportunity set a do a good job of the things that are asked of you. And then there’s opportunity set B. And this applies to founders too, right? Because every day there is the day to day demands of the business, the thing that your team needs, the thing that your customers need that they expect from you, that’s opportunity set, hey, then there’s opportunity set B, which is everything that’s available to you that nobody’s asking you to do. And if that if you’re working at a job that could be taking on new roles and responsibilities at that job, it could also be pursuing interests and skills outside of the job, you like podcasts, you start a podcast, because you want to learn about the mechanics of it, because you want to learn how to be a better speaker, whatever the case is. And if you’re a founder, I think it also means exploring the things that you’re entrepreneurs that your customers maybe aren’t telling you that they want, but that are actually the next great opportunity for how you can serve them. Whatever it is, here’s my argument, opportunity set be is always more important. It’s infinitely more important. Because if you only focus on the things that are asked of you, then you will only be qualified to do the things you’re already doing. But opportunities happy is where growth comes from. I have found to your question that this is something that entrepreneurs have just internalized, they are constantly trying to figure out how to fulfill the expectations while at the same time diverting enough energy away from them, that they can discover new opportunities, because they understand that the things that are asked of them today may not be asked with them tomorrow. And so they always have to be a step ahead of that. I have been doing that throughout my entire career, I was always freelancing, I always had had some kind of side hustle, I was always redefining the skills that I have in the way that I express them. And it wasn’t until being an entrepreneur that I looked back and said, Oh, I was doing a lot of the things that I see traditional quote unquote entrepreneurs do. And I can draw the line between these experiences, and therefore have a better idea of how people who are not necessarily just founders who identify the word entrepreneur, can also benefit from this kind of thinking,

Matt DeCoursey 7:05
I hear you on the the, the a list in the B list. And I think that I don’t think I know any entrepreneurs or founders that love living and that list a those are the managerial things. And you know, we sometimes refer to that as you get your business up and running. There’s this myriad, you know, of things that you have these one off things that feel like they consume you in that first state of the business, and then it grows and things get in motion, and then you can suffer from what we often refer to as operational brain damage. And that’s that i It’s the metal part of entrepreneurship that I think a lot of people get stuck in. And one of the things we’ve, we’ve spent a lot of time talking about, as well as the fact that you know, being overbooked, and in over like, if you’re the conduit for all things in your business that becomes the enemy of creativity and innovation, because it’s just a little too scheduled. Now, how now you’re doing a whole lot of stuff. I mean, how do you even find time to be entrepreneurial and do other stuff?

Jason Feifer 8:09
Well, I think it starts with understanding what your priorities are and what your goals are. Because if you know where you’re moving to, then you can start to make hard decisions about how you spend your time. I’m a real big believer in Parkinson’s Law, you know, Parkinson’s Law

Matt DeCoursey 8:31
is that I thought that was income rises to meet expenses are no, but it’s in that ballpark. Right? It’s in

Jason Feifer 8:39
that ballpark, but it’s about time, not money. It’s it’s work expands to fit the time allotted. Okay, so if you have a certain amount of time to do a project, that project will take that amount of time. Yeah. And as a result, if you are trying to figure out if you should try some new thing, let’s say for example, let’s just use my example from a minute ago, you like podcasts? I mean, if somebody’s listening to the show, they listen to podcasts. So maybe you think, oh, you know, I should start a podcast too. Alright, but then the first thing you’re gonna think is Oh, but I don’t have the time for that. But consider, consider what that means. I don’t have the time for that means that there, there would be some kind of universe in which you would have the time for where where you occupy, you occupy some kind of space time continuum in which there is two hours every day that you just don’t have filled. And you could fill that maybe with the podcasts. But that’s not how life works. You will never have that time because of Parkinson’s Law because everything that you do is going to feel the time that you have. So what do you do? Well, the way that I’ve come to think of it as I’ve come to think of my time as a balloon, so you don’t expand the balloon in order to fit air into it. Right. I mean, that would be, I don’t have the time for this, oh, if I had the time I would do it, you don’t expand a balloon and then put air into it. That’s not how you fill up a balloon, you blow air into the balloon, and then it expands. Because a balloon expands under pressure, I think time expands under pressure too. So I commit to things that I think are going to be very valuable to me. And when I do that, it forces me to consider how I am spending my time in other ways. Is this project that I have been working on actually moving the ball for me? Am I doing it as efficiently or smartly as possible? Is it now actually time to maybe spend some money to get somebody to help me on this thing, so that I can divert some of my energy to this other thing that I think is gonna matter more? This force is hard decisions. I mean, you know, Matt, just before we started recording, we were talking about what podcast to say that I have in my in my bio, and I told you, it’s help want it that’s my podcast help want it. Now. The reason why it’s helped bought it is because that’s a new project that I’m doing with my friend Nicole Lapin, which is a she’s a best selling money expert. And to accomplish that, because I think that it has a lot of growth potential. And I’m really, really excited about it. It’s a show that helps people with their work problems. That show requires me to take a hard look at how I’m spending my time, I have been making another show for years. I loved it, I still love it. But you know what, I think that at this point, I have seen its growth trajectory. And it’s not strong enough. And even though I love this show, I don’t think that it’s going to grow, the way that Help Wanted is going to grow. So I made the hard decision to move on. And that is what to me. Time expand under pressure really looks like, that’s how I’m doing this. So I’m making hard decisions. I’m constantly reevaluating how I’m doing things. And I’m making sure that I’m spending my time focused on how to advance real goals.

Matt DeCoursey 11:59
You just outlined the the main thesis of my first book balanced me, which was, you know, that we talked about the time. So people say that all the time, they say I don’t have time, you know, you probably do, you’re just choosing to use your time in the wrong places. And then, you know, I mean, I don’t want to, I could take up the rest of the time on this podcast going over this. But but here’s the thing is a lot of people just manage their time poorly, they choose low value activities over high. And essentially what I get into and balanced me is my own method of training myself to understand what the highest value activities are in my life. Now, that said, you can’t run a red line, like RPMs up maxed out on that all the time. But you know, for the most part, you just set, it starts with setting some goals, and It shocks me how few people have goals. You know, like, there’s this old Harvard study that had all the students that, you know, like only, like 3% of them had goals, and they went back and checked on them, you know, 10 years later, and they those those 3% were grossly outperforming all the other people that were already at Harvard already high achievers. Now, you know, with that is if you want to do something, you know, I my advice is always figure out what that is. And then you can’t look at that as the singular task, you have to reverse engineer and usually builds this pyramid of checkboxes that you have to fill out, you know, and it’s like, we say, Oh, well go start a podcast where there’s a lot more to it than just out and sharing what you want to do, you know, find a way to swap out playing video games or doing whatever it is. And you know, it’s amazing how much time we burn up as well, I don’t have time, or I think the best thing when it comes to efficiency and creating time is maybe just stop doing a whole lot of other stuff not like don’t just reschedule it for another time, like the most efficient thing you can do, and in many cases is to just stop. So I find myself constantly asking, Do we even need to do this anymore? And if you know, I mean, a lot of times we do and a lot of times, maybe not so much. So yeah, it’s all out there right in front of you. And it’s got you know, all right, yeah,

Jason Feifer 14:08
actually, can I start before we move on to that, which is that? i There’s a question. And this goes a little beyond I think this applies to the stuff that you’re describing there. And, and you just offered a nice example of it, but we can go broader with it, which is I’m obsessed with this question. And the question is, What is this for? And I mean, I love this question so much that I have a book called build for tomorrow which is and and I devoted a whole page like like just a blank page that just has What is this for really big on it because I wanted people to tear it out and stick it on their walls. Because once you start asking what is this for of the things that you’re doing? You start to really evaluate whether or not it has a contributory value in your in your life. And I I ask it of of almost everything that I do. What is it

Matt DeCoursey 14:57
every day to man like what is this For Yeah, what why are we doing this?

Jason Feifer 15:02
And if you don’t have an answer, then maybe you shouldn’t do it. But you know, the exciting thing is that sometimes the answer that will change, or the answer to that will be unexpected. And it will therefore then drive the next decisions that you make. I, for example, I like to apply this question to the industry that I’m in, which is media, you know, I mean, I am, I am, I am an employee of entrepreneur, but then I also produce a lot of stuff for myself there by myself. And so I asked this question, what is it? What is content for? What is it for, you know, decades ago, the answer was monetization was very easy. Because you sold subscriptions against it, you sold ads against it, and people would pay for that stuff. And there was a endless advertisers now much harder across the industry, because there are fewer advertising dollars available, because most are being sucked up by Google and Facebook. And because people don’t want to pay for content as much. So what is content for? Is it for anything? Well, I would say yes, it’s for relationships. That’s what it’s for. Content is for relationships, it builds relationships, people trust you because of content, either as an individual or as a brand. And now that you have built a relationship, the question you have to ask is, what kinds of products and services can I offer that people would pay for? Because they trust me because of the content? That I think is the that’s the blueprint, that’s the pathway forward for anybody in media? And if you’re not thinking that way, then I think that you’re on a sinking ship. And that is the power of asking the question, What is this for?

Matt DeCoursey 16:34
I give a speech about how to start a podcast, cuz when global entrepreneur week comes around, or whatever it is, I find myself as the quote, Startup Hustle guy, which I’d rather be the Full Scale guy, by the way. But by default, I am the Startup Hustle guy. And I start that, you know, I used to get a big turnout of these things. So you got, you know, 100 or so people. And first question I asked is, Who here wants to start a podcast? Because they think it’s going to become their full time job. And 99 of the room raises their hand. Oh, that’s so interesting. And then I just pop that balloon. Because I’m like, Hey, I’m gonna lay I’m gonna lay it on. Yeah, you’re gonna have a real long road before that’s even a possibility. And I’ve even had a couple people get up and leave after. And you know, and you know, it, maybe I did them a favor. But yeah, I agree with the on the content part. And, you know, you kind of go back to the, all the things we’ve talked about, we’re in this golden age of entrepreneurship. And you talk about what is an entrepreneur, what is content, and that’s changed so much, you know, an Uber driver is an entrepreneur, in my opinion, and there’s just all this access to things that you can do. I think there’s never been a greater time for Hustlers to earn income and revenue, build a brand. I was just having this conversation the other day, because I was on local TV for a morning show and I assistants holding the phone and recording me and she’s like, how do you feel about this? I’m like, I’m alright with it. Well, why aren’t you more excited? Because more people are gonna listen to my podcast that I broadcast from the extra bedroom of my home that will watch this television show. And think about that. I mean, think about that, and the change that that has come up. Now, this seems like a really good question to ask someone that works at a major media publication. Is there is there any kind of threatening feeling about about that and mass and mainstream media?

Jason Feifer 18:30
I think that there is if you are in the position of defending traditional media, yeah, there’s this, there’s a lot of fear about that. And you see it reflected in the narratives that media and I hate, kind of lumping all media outlets into something called Media because it sort of acts as if they’re all working in concert. And they’re not media, like any industry is a completely uncoordinated, just mess of people scrambling around to try to figure out how to do their jobs. But substack is a good example. Do you remember when substack first launched, and there was this wave of stories about how substack is going to replace traditional media ad, every writer for every publication is going to quit and start their own newsletters. And you know, and of course, that didn’t happen. That sounds absurd concept. Instead, what happened is that, like any new technology, it found its use case or still is finding its use case. And that is going to exist inside of a larger ecosystem of things that already exists. So now there are indeed some writers who make a great living off of substack some of them left traditional media, some of them were not professional writers to begin with. And that I think, is how All these changes actually happen, don’t worry, I say about what everyone else is doing, make sure that you are creating relevance for your audience. Because if you don’t make the case for your existence, well, then there’s just you’re incumbency alone is not an argument for you do exist. And I always like to think back to when I think about media and and I apply this to any business really, is how we often we lament, oh, I can’t believe we got company closed or we can’t, you know, we weren’t able to support that or whatever. You know, when I started in national magazine, my first national magazine job was at men’s health, and I was a junior editor there. And we were just entering the Oh 809 recession. And men’s health had a spin-off publication called Best Life best life was a magazine. For men who kind of graduated from men’s health, they were a little older, they were a little more established in their lives. And the reason that best health best life was created was because Men’s Health had trouble landing luxury advertisers, because the luxury advertisers saw Men’s Health is too downmarket. So Men’s Health wanted to create a more upscale men’s magazine, that could be a good home for those luxury advertisers. And so this magazine was launched, it lived for a few years, and I had friends who worked there. And then the Oh 809 recession killed it, because the luxury advertising market disappear. And now cue the hand wringing, oh, my god, I can’t believe we’re losing these great magazines, this is so terrible, but you know what, best life and any magazine and any business period, any of them came to existence, because somebody recognized an economic opportunity, and hopefully how to solve some people’s problems, while at the same time grabbing that economic opportunity and circumstances change. And maybe that economic opportunity goes away, at which point, the company if it has not figured out how to pivot and solve somebody else’s problem, or solve it in a different way, or see some new opportunity will now cease to exist. And that is fine. Because that’s how it goes. And that’s how I see traditional media as well, I think that more companies will fold. And I think that that’s fine, because what will happen is not the disappearance of value in the world, it’s just that it’ll start to look differently, and new, innovative forward thinking people will rise up and say, I know how to solve these problems. I know how to fulfill people’s needs and expectations. I know how to tell stories and how to bring people information and guide them to correct decisions. I can do that I can do it with the economics and the tools of today. And I will create something that will last another 50 or 100 years. That is wonderful. So yeah, sure, if you’re the old guard, then you worry. But I don’t really care so much about that what I care about is making sure that tomorrow is being served. Not yesterday,

Matt DeCoursey 23:06
I hear you talking about experts. And I want to remind everyone to find an expert software developer doesn’t have to be difficult, especially when you visit full scale.io where you can build a software team quickly and affordably. Use the Full Scale platform to define your technical needs, and then see what available developers, testers and leaders are ready to join your team visit full scale.io To learn more, talking about chasing opportunity. My best is Full Scale. I mean, all of our employees, except for a small handful are in the Philippines. And you talked about that entrepreneurs go find the resources where they exist. They don’t sit around and go, Oh, man, I wish what I had, what I wish what I needed was right in front of me. And since it’s not I give up and I you know, kind of going back to the to the media example, as you were just you know, you’re right. It’s just a state of evolution. You mentioned that what was the best life? It sounds like that was created more for an advertiser opportunity than the opportunity of possibly creating value like and that might have been one of the issues with why it wasn’t as sustainable. You get back into the why are we doing this. But when I think about content, and the things that we put out like that the whole purpose of the show is to tell the real story of entrepreneurship. And that means that we have to talk about the fact that we’ve all cried about our business over at some point. We’ve all woke up at three in the morning and wondered if we were going broke going crazy or mate or did that just happen? And that’s what people reach out and thank us for as they say, Man, I’m so the number one comment I’ve received about this show over the years is thanks for keeping it real, you know, and like I say, well tell me more like what do you mean by that? And they said, Well, you’re not afraid to talk about things you did poorly. And I said yeah, I guess everyone likes to Watch the train wreck and they’re like, No, it’s not a train wreck, it’s uplifting, it actually makes me feel like I’m not the only one failing. because entrepreneurship is a lonely road and a lonely state of existence on many days, back to the very beginning of the conversation and talking about that list of things, those are the things that have to happen to the business. But as an entrepreneur, if there aren’t people there to help you do it, you get to do all of them, or they just go on Done. Both are kind of equally terrible in the eyes of an entrepreneur, because it keeps you from doing the things that you really want to do. But, you know, really, in the end, and I think that’s where you get into the big media companies and stuff like that they have a lot of people that can put a lot of resources and a lot of thought into this stuff. And they usually find a great way to evolve. It’s just, you know, but in this golden age of entrepreneurship, Hey, man, like we start, you know, we started this show, we got over 1000 episodes, millions of downloads, people in less than 194 countries. And we started the whole thing, just because we wanted to complain about entrepreneurship. And people found value in that we didn’t even do a sponsor read or anything for over 100 episodes. And that was the thing, it’s also been great because the value for us and I’ve, I’m not trying to hide this, it drives a lot of bills, it drives a lot of it a lot of prospects who are business. And I guess it’s that trust factor, we get on the phone with these folks. And we’re like, Hey, let me tell you a little bit about us or what we do there. I’ve been listening to your podcast for a long time. So you gotta get good at something before the money is gonna follow. And that’s

Jason Feifer 26:30
Yeah, and what you’re describing is just leading with value. I mean, it’s really simple, right? You don’t have to do it through media, but the media is one way to do it. But ultimately, what you got to figure out is what do the people who you want to serve need? And how do you get it to them? And how do you get it to them in a way that isn’t a sales pitch. It’s funny I was I was recently talking to a lawyer who has a newsletter that just has a really smart summary of like news you would have missed. And so it’s not, it’s not a newsletter about law. And yet, at the end, he has this thing which says, you know, if you’re looking for a lawyer, you should reach out. And I asked him, How much business does this bring you? And he says, a ton of business. And I said, Why did you not make a newsletter about the law? And he’s like, just because? And his answer is, because the people who need to hire me aren’t people who sit around thinking about the law all day. And so sure I could, I could create a newsletter that displays that I’m knowledgeable about the law. But that’s not something they want to subscribe and read to subscribe to and read. So instead, let me start with what is going to engage them, what fills their time with value. And if I can figure that out and be a trusted source for that, well, now they’re going to trust me on the thing that I do for a living is a very smart way of thinking about it. And it really always comes down to no matter what it is that you do, you better understand how to be value forward. And if you are able to do that, then people will trust you for what else you have. Well, I

Matt DeCoursey 28:09
think as a creator, to and whether you’re a journalist, a podcaster, a book author, a public speaker, you have to like what you’re doing as well, like that’s why that’s why I say this is a conversation. And for those of you that don’t get to hear what happens before the mic come before the red light turns on, as I tell everyone I say hey, it’s it’s conversational format. I don’t have questions. It’s not an interview. Because dude, I’ve done seven, I’ve been on 750 of our 1000 episodes, if I had to, if I asked the exact same questions on the exact the exact same minute, every I would have gone crazy. Like to me that sounds like some broken record stuff that would drive me nuts. And I mean, I like the free flowing nature of where it goes. And then I also think it feels a lot less mechanical. It’s not, it’s not ad driven. Now is the podcast free? Yes, tactically. And we Jason We have a money back guarantee, if you don’t like the show, we’ll give you your money back. But the price of admission is that you do have to hear like about 45 seconds worth of commentary about our show like the final one that says today’s episode Startup Hustle is brought to you by FullScale.io That’s it. And that’s I think for the value that we provide in the conversations that we give and then you know, we love just highlighting the great things that people are doing and then you know, and since we’ve talked so much about being a content creator I want to throw this out there because if you look at our feed you’ll be a very rare person that will actually put your name in the episode because Entrepreneur Magazine and as recognizable and with that that’s what we talked about and some other stuff but for the most point we have a lot of really like wealthy known influencer type people in the end the episode will just be like, I don’t know if they won’t have their name or won’t have their company because we we look at what we put out five shows a week dude. So if you want to scroll through that feed We want you to know what we’re talking about in that episode when you collect it. So that’s just a little tip for this lesson. Alright, so I like to end my episodes of the show with what I call the founders freestyle. I’m gonna modify that a little bit we’ll do the editors are the authors, they’ll do the author’s freestyle, because I’ve written some books, and you’ve written some books, and we didn’t get a chance to talk enough about yours. So when you’re writing a book is a labor of love. People, the number one question that people are going to ask you about your book is usually does it come on Audible? I don’t know if you’ve gotten that, too. I’m like, Come on people.

Jason Feifer 30:37
Can I just pause you for a second on that? Because that is so funny that you say that? Because our it’s, I’ve two things to say about that. Number one is that yes, my I get DMS all the time, from people who say, is it on Audible? And it doesn’t make sense to me. Because if you subscribe to Audible, you could just go to audible and search it. Why are you reaching out? It’s the slower way to get an answer. So the answer is yes. Built for tomorrow is on Audible. And I wrote it and I read it myself. But then here’s the other thing.

Matt DeCoursey 31:11
Second question. Did you actually write it yourself? That’s what I get. Oh, that’s Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah. So yeah, I wrote all ultimo. I have a co author on the third one. So two and a half. Yeah.

Jason Feifer 31:21
So that’s, and I and I did too. I mean, boy, if I you know, if I given my background, if I didn’t

Matt DeCoursey 31:27
write your book, that was fine. Yeah. But

Jason Feifer 31:31
but here’s the other really interesting thing about the about the audible thing. So this was a tip that I got from my editor. And so my book came out on a traditional publisher came out on a division of Penguin Random House, and my editor at Penguin Random House, we were having lunch right around launch. And he said, Here’s he said, here’s the just thing to remind to keep in mind, which is that, if you don’t say, on a podcast, that the book is available on Audible, people will assume it’s not. And so you have to be really explicit about it. And that is, it’s an interesting insight that people won’t, and you could be frustrated by that. Or you could say, that’s a really good reminder to always be aware of the questions that people are going to carry in their mind, and make sure that you’re answering them before they even ask them. And that’s something that we should just infuse into everything that we do. And the audible thing is just a really nice reminder of it.

Matt DeCoursey 32:29
Yeah, I actually what you just mentioned, I talk about a lot with our own salespeople, I say, look, there are four or five objections that I’ve been hearing, commonly for five years. So anything that we do should answer all those in one minute, like in the beginning, like so, you know, we have employees in the Philippines, do they speak English? They work on our timezone? Those are the two things. So like, we’ll start with that. That’s like in the first paragraph. So yeah, I think we’ll have to start. I have an audible that is also available as a book. Maybe that’s how we’ll start? Well, I’ll start doing that. But yeah, those are the real questions. And you know, like you said, something that I want to point out so icon, I talked to so many authors, I’m like, Do you have a good editor? And they’re like, No, I think I’ll edit it myself. That reminds me of when Abraham Lincoln said that he who represents himself has a fool for a client, the editor of Entrepreneur magazine just talked about his editor and his, I’m assuming you weren’t the end editor of your own book.

Jason Feifer 33:26
Oh, God, no. And my editor was amazing. And it would have been a credit. Look, I have been. Yep, thank you.

Matt DeCoursey 33:35
You’re trying to cut your own hair.

Jason Feifer 33:39
Because because he can’t get a good look at it. Right. Just like you can’t get a good look at your hair, you can’t get to look good look at your own book. And also people think that, because they consume media, they know how to create it for other people to have because they consume anything they know how to they know how to create it. And that’s not true. And that includes people who otherwise work in that space. I have been a me a media maker. Since I got out of college. In 2002. I was a newspaper reporter and then I local magazine editor regional magazines and the national magazines. Since 2008. I have worked at the highest level, I run a national magazine, I had no idea how to write a book, because the first stab that I made at it, I wrote my first my editor said Matthew Benjamin, shout out to you. He’s the editor at Harmony, the division of Penguin Random House that I published under him, his first task to me was he said, write the first four chapters and send them to me. So that’s what I did. And then we got on the phone and he said, Okay, interesting start. But here’s the problem. You didn’t write the first four chapters of a book, you just wrote four random magazine articles. They’re not connected. They don’t feel like they build upon themselves and they’re also kind of formatted differently. So we need to step back and think about how to create something that builds which means that we You really probably need to step back and think about the structure of this book, because the one that I had pitched is not really going to work. And without Him, and without appreciating that there are other people out there who can see something better than I can, I would have had a much worse product.

Matt DeCoursey 35:21
Well, it’s it’s for shouting out editors, Patrick price, who’s also in Brooklyn, he’s probably your neighbor, you’re probably in the same editor on all three of my books. And he took a similar approach. I had already written a half of my first book, when I realized I was like, Man, I gotta get someone in on this. And Patrick came in and caught me trying to remove my own voice from my writing, and told me he literally said, dude, peep, I know writers that have been trying to find their voice for a decade, and you’re trying to remove your stop and just brought so much more structure and like that, that haircut example, like, you can’t cut your own hair. And I mean, I, you know, I shave my hair off a lot. And you can’t even do that. Like, so don’t try to edit your own book. Jason, I want to thank thank you for taking the time. I know you’re busy guy. You know, I’m sure everyone listening. It’s checked out Entrepreneur Magazine, pick up a copy. But what I’d really like you to do is pick up Jason’s book. It’s available on Audible is what I’m hearing as well. Just go to audible.com and look it up. If you’re it’s Pfeiffer with an F, not a pH, which I think is probably a common,

Jason Feifer 36:30
or if it’s common, because everyone knows Michelle. Yeah, my line is, yeah, whenever we, whenever when asked how to pronounce my name, I say it’s Pfeiffer, like Michelle which was especially joyful to be able to tell Michelle, Michelle and I have developed a nice relationship. Michelle Pfeiffer and she’s like, I quote her in the book. And so anyway, yeah, it’s f e i, f, er,

Matt DeCoursey 36:51
there’s a link in the show notes. That’s the that’s the key thing. Hey, man, I look forward to chatting with you again down the road. Congrats on the book. Congrats on the podcast. Once again, links in the show notes for all that, Jason. I know. You got to get back to the many things that you’re doing. So now I’ll catch up with you down the road.

Jason Feifer 37:07
Hey, appreciate it. This is so fun.