Launching Again: 4-Time Founder's Formula

Hosted By Andrew Morgans


See All Episodes With Andrew Morgans

Matt Watson

Today's Guest: Matt Watson

Founder, CEO, CTO - At Capacity

Kansas City

Ep. #1207 - Launching Again: 4-Time Founder’s Formula

Today’s episode of Startup Hustle features Andrew Morgans and co-host Matt Watson, Founder, CEO, and CTO of At Capacity. They talk about Matt’s journey in launching his fourth startup and his founder’s formula! Andrew and Matt discuss why marketing service-based businesses are different than e-commerce. They also discuss what drives Matt to continue launching startup after startup, why great marketing is essential, and why talent is everything.

Covered In This Episode

Serial entrepreneurs abound, but few have multiple successes, one after the other after the other. At Capacity is the fourth foray of Matt Watson into the startup ecosystem using his founder’s formula.

Andrew and Matt have co-hosted Startup Hustle for a few years, so the conversation moves swiftly. They touch on Matt’s newest venture, At Capacity, a platform that integrates scheduling systems and digital marketing channels. Matt explains how it can help businesses manage marketing and seasonal fluctuations. They also discuss the differences between doing startups for the first time and the fourth one.

Get Started with Full Scale

The co-hosts share the value of marketing, fractional services, and their challenges as founders. They agree that hiring people is one of them. They exchange insights on hiring and scaling a business, networking, and more.

Andrew and Matt raise points that would interest any entrepreneur. Find out more by joining the conversation in this Startup Hustle episode now.

Startup Hustle: A Podcast about Growth and Innovation


  • Matt Watson’s new startup, At Capacity (1:46)
  • Marketing for home-based services (6:34)
  • Managing dynamic businesses with seasonal fluctuations (8:24)
  • Google Local Service Ads (14:34)
  • Why did Matt decide to do another startup? (17:24)
  • The difference between the first time and the fourth startup (19:35)
  • The value of marketing in entrepreneurship (22:43)
  • Fractional services (27:06)
  • The challenges that Matt and At Capacity are facing (29:41)
  • Hiring people has become a challenge (31:35)
  • The employees are your company (33:55)
  • Hiring and scaling your business (35:09)
  • Networking, business ideas, and growth (39:55)

Key Quotes

As a software developer, you go from being in love with the code to eventually you’ve got to make the next jump to being in love with the product and the customers. Then, building a business around it is kind of the next level. But then, when you start working on the business side of it, you figure out very quickly what’s more important than anything: how to sell this thing. How do we find customers? I think that’s the progression of my career.

– Matt Watson

When you’re an entrepreneur and a founder, you need go-to-marketing to figure out how it will go to market, how people will purchase it, and how they will capture it. That is the most important part. You can build the coolest spaceship in the world or Noah’s Ark, and no one’s gonna come if they don’t know.

– Andrew Morgans

I’m a fan of networking and just meeting other people. You never know what kind of business ideas you’ll run into or who you’ll meet and who they know. It’s way more important to be best known for what you do than to be best at what you do. Most of us are so focused on being the best at what we do. But that really doesn’t matter. It’s best known is way more important. We all use companies, services, and products every day because they’re the best-known products. Not because they’re the best.

– Matt Watson

Sponsor Highlight

With or without a founder’s formula, choose Full Scale when you need to hire software developers. Our expert developers, engineers, testers, and leaders are dedicated exclusively to your project. Enhance team management with our efficient platform. Define your project’s technical requirements now!

We also have Startup Hustle partners that can help you with your business in other ways. Check them out!

Rough Transcript

Following is an auto-generated text transcript of this episode. Apologies for any errors!

Andrew Morgans  0:00

Hey, what’s up, Hustlers? Welcome back. This is Andrew Morgans, founder of Marknology. Here as today’s hosts of Startup Hustle. Today’s title is “Launching Again a Four-time Founder’s Formula.” And I’m sure you’ll know our guest for today. Before I make that introduction, today’s episode of Startup Hustle is powered by Hiring software developers is difficult. Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably. And has the platform to help you manage that team. Visit Full to learn more. Matt Watson, welcome to the show.


Matt Watson  0:31

What’s up, man?


Andrew Morgans  0:32

I’m super excited to have you. Our listeners obviously know, you know, who you are. But I think it’s gonna be exciting today to kind of dig into what you’re doing new. That’s, that’s fun. Maybe, maybe they know some of it. Maybe they don’t. I’m definitely going to learn, and just excited to kind of catch up. We don’t always get to catch up, we pass each other. We’re in the same building. Sometimes. Sometimes we’re not. But I’m excited to have you on the show and kind of hear what you’re doing.


Matt Watson  0:55

You know, I’m just sitting here doing the math in my head. And I’m thinking, You know what, this might be the third time I’ve been a guest on the show. So, one in every 400 episodes, I get to be a guest or something, I guess.


Andrew Morgans  1:07

Well, for me, you know, I think when we met, like, I don’t know, I think it’s been so I joined the podcast in 2020. But I think I met you guys, you know, in 2019, you and DeCoursey. And I would come on as the Amazon update.


Matt Watson  1:22

Yeah, it was like a weekly thing.


Andrew Morgans  1:24

Yeah, you guys did the podcast together at that time before we split it off and did everything like more remote and digital, and you know, just getting to come down you guys office, see the podcast studio. My business has come a long way since then. But it’s just been fun watching the Full Scale journey and the Startup Hustle, you know, journey. Seeing what you guys are building.


Matt Watson  1:42

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks so much for having me today.


Andrew Morgans  1:46

Yeah, we’re gonna have some fun. And I’m excited to have you on my show and get my listeners, the Tuesday, the Tuesday spot, to kind of just know a little bit more about some of Startup Hustle founders. And you know, Full Scale as founders. But today, we’re gonna be talking about something different, At Capacity.


Matt Watson  2:03

Yeah, so, but we’re still talking about marketing, man. I mean, that’s I that’s what At Capacity does. We do digital marketing software for primarily home services, so like plumbing, HVAC, and electrical. But I think we just signed up our first medical spa, which is like high-end, you know, ladies’ treatment, usually like Botox and weight loss, all these things. But yeah, and we’re expanding to other industries. We’re trying to get an automotive. So, we’re really excited. But we’re like a scrappy, little startup still trying to figure it out. And not sure what verticals we’re gonna go into, right? So, we’re trying to figure it out.


Andrew Morgans  2:37

Well, before we jump into exactly what At Capacity does, and, you know, some of those verticals are in different things. Let’s talk about just how this came to be. I mean, you got your hands in a lot of things. You know, and we’ve discussed this maybe six months in the past, before we did a little e-com. Just like r&d conversations around, you know, what Amazon e-commerce sellers are into and what their needs are. But talk to me about, you know, this new project that you’re involved in how to come to be?


Matt Watson  3:06

Yeah, so I had a previous company called Stackify, that I sold in 2021. Which, by the way, it was totally weird to sell a company like in 2020 during COVID. We sold that company, I never literally, I never met in person, the people that acquired the business, which was totally strange. That is totally bizarre. But we so we sold that in 2021. I stayed there for a few months, and then left. And one of my friends here in Kansas City, was telling me about where she was working and what they were doing, which is a company called at the time, it was called Home and Local Services. But now it’s called Camp Digital. And I talked to her a few times, and whatever, I was sort of not doing anything, I was sort of like I had like, a good six months of I don’t know if I call it being retired, but sort of messing around and figuring out every way to lose money trading crypto.


Andrew Morgans  3:57

Sabbatical, I think they call it a sabbatical.


Matt Watson  4:00

But you know, from talking to her, you know, a few times kind of piqued my interest. And at first I’m like, software for home services, for plumbers, this sounds stupid, like why would I? Why would I do this? The more I got into it, and more, I realized what they were doing. I kind of saw the opportunity and saw, you know, what they had been doing for the last five years over successful and I joined them as basically their Chief Technology Officer, and kind of got to know the business over the last year. And part of the goal was to take the technology that they had, and spin it out into another company and then go after other verticals. So, you know, Camp Digital, is arguably, you know, the number one, if not, you know, top three marketing agencies in the home service base. They focus on the super large home service companies, a lot of them. A lot of them it’s crazy man spend 50 to $200,000 a month on Google ads like you wouldn’t believe how Make some of these, like plumbing and HVAC companies are. But that’s that to their customer bases. But that means they also don’t serve us like the other 98% of the market. Like, the average, like plumber that you see drive down the street where, you know, stereotypically, it’s like a guy and his, you know, one or two other employees and his wife, you know, runs the back office and answers the phone. Like, that’s the stereotypical, like small business, right? They don’t service them, because they’re too small. They’re too small for their agency. So our goal was to build a software product that could serve that mid and, you know, even smaller market, you know, small plumbing company, HVAC company, stuff like that. So that’s what we set off to do.


Andrew Morgans  5:42

So, would you compare Camp Digital, kind of to a Marknology? In regards to it being service based? Like, yeah, okay.


Matt Watson  5:48

Yeah, I mean, you guys, your expertise is ecommerce and Amazon and all that kind of stuff. And their expertise is plumbing.


Andrew Morgans  5:56

Yeah, I get it. I’m just trying to like, you know, for any of our listeners really understand kind of what happened. And I would assume this was like a software that Camp Digital built in-house.


Matt Watson  6:06

It was it was something they built in-house. And so the premise of it is, if you had a water leak today, and you call the plumber, and the plumber says, Sorry, I can’t be there for three days. You hang up, you call the next one, right? So as a plumber, it makes no sense for you to be advertising. If you can’t come deliver the service, if you can’t come out today, or come out tomorrow, and take care of that water leak. It doesn’t make any sense.


Andrew Morgans  6:28

Yeah, because these are emergency or like time, time-based services, like


Matt Watson  6:33

Yeah, I mean, just like me, right? If my air conditioning stops working, my wife is going to kill me, if I don’t get that shit fixed. It needs to be fixed today, needs to be fixed tomorrow. Doesn’t even matter how much is gonna cost if it cost 20 bucks, 100 bucks, whatever, it’s got to be fixed, right? It’s gonna fix now, right? So, for all these kinds of companies, they they also are terrible customers, for other marketing agencies. So other marketing agencies and I don’t, I don’t mean to, I don’t mean dog, Marknology. In the in the mix of this, you guys are different doing concrete speaking. But other marketing companies in home services, you know, they just want you to spend $5,000 a month, $10,000 a month, whatever it is for your marketing spend, and just spend it. No different if you run a TV ad or radio ad, or they just spend the money or whatever. They don’t want to be held accountable for the performance. And they want to take their 20% or whatever and just spend the money, they don’t care. We’re back to this scenario. If you’re a plumber, you need to turn your ads on and off every day, depending on your workload, right? So the week before Labor Day, not a lot of people want to do plumbing for whatever reason. But then the week after, after Labor Day, it’s crazy busy, like everybody waited until after the holiday, right? You get this crazy ebb and flow in the business. And because, you know, it’s service-based business, you have literally literal people doing the work, that capacity ebbs and flows. And it needs a software technology to help kind of manage when they do advertising, when they turn it off. When they expand their service area. Right? Like, hey, we haven’t had a lot of work to the last couple days, let’s expand our service area, we’re willing to drive an extra 30 minutes go to a job. We need jobs to do, right? So there’s a lot of stuff that needs to be more dynamic in how they do their marketing, that other marketing companies just straight up don’t do and other industries don’t do. Like, you wouldn’t do any commerce. Right? You wouldn’t turn the ads off the same way.


Andrew Morgans  8:24

I’m gonna check them maybe once a week. It’s like, it’s, you know, it’s different. There’s a reason, like, you know, some of it is time, I can’t check it every single day. Part of it is if you change it too much you have no, you know, there’s no real trend lines to look at, you know, is it working? Is it not? When you’re selling ecommerce products people can buy? What’s amazing about is that your store is open 24/7. Yeah, yes. You know, people can buy all day, every day. And at that point, you know, we might be doing something like day parting where we’re like, okay, we want to show from eight to 12. Exactly, you know, a lot of our budget and from six to 10, you know, but I would also think about with service based businesses and like you have, okay, are people home on the weekend, Labor Day. They’re probably at the lake or outside grilling, you know, or they don’t want to handle that problem at home because they’re at, you know, their friend’s house for Labor Day, you know, whatever the case might be. All relate to it, right? So then there’s a boom afterwards like something you might not know about me, I don’t know. I run a property management business as well. We have 10 or 12 Airbnbs in the city and, you know, 80 or so homes. And you start to really notice the trends of when things happen like heavy rains. Yeah, you know, the first freezes or like, if it’s so hot that the ACS aren’t, you know, they stopped working, they just can’t keep up. And then it comes down to Okay, well, we need to have our service providers out there changing the filters before it gets that hot and you know, that uh, but there’s these like things that you start to see after seasons. And being able to adjust that is is something that just you can’t pay enough manpower to have, you know, someone on Labor Day Turning ads off, let’s say,


Matt Watson  10:01

Yeah, well, and there’s a lot of service companies that need a certain amount of clientele, right? Like a little, a small plumbing company that like, hey, I need five or six calls a day, right? And it’s not like they have 20 or 50, or 100. Like it’s not infinite, it’s only five or six. But think about other companies even that do recurring schedule, say, like a maid service, or lawn care or other things. Pest Control, they need a certain book of business. And then if they a couple customers cancel, they need to advertise and they need to get a couple more. And then when it’s done, it’s done. Kind of like you with your property management, right? You need renters when you need them. And then when you don’t need renters, you don’t need new renters. Right. So well, months or whatever, right? Yeah, you’re, you know, there’s a lot of ebb and flow in the business. And you know, those are the kinds of problems we’re trying to solve. And honestly, there, it’s not that complicated. But we, you know, have a whole host of different solutions that we provide them. And we also build websites for them. So a lot of our customers are small plumbers or whatever, right? So they need a website that converts really well, that has great landing pages and all that stuff. And so we have a turnkey offering for them. And, you know, we were still partner with camp digital. So camp, you know, we still work very closely with them. This kind of was an offshoot of that. But, you know, I’m also excited to go into other industries outside of home services. So think about like a service department at a car dealership, it’s no different, right, if all the service bays are full, doesn’t make any sense to advertise for service, you know, two weeks now. So, you know, trying to help these different companies manage this kind of stuff that’s more dynamic is the goal.


Andrew Morgans  11:35

I had a couple of just like random thoughts when we’re running by you want to have some like home service-based? You know, people in the family that run their own businesses? Yeah, there’s a smaller businesses like that, you know, so things coming to mind that I know they deal with and whatnot, but kind of recently, because our staff is always busy on the property management side for different things I need around the office here. You know, at Marknology, or at my house. I’ve been using like TaskRabbit, and some of these little apps that kind of helped me find a plumber, or a cleaner or different things like that,


Matt Watson  12:13

You need to look at Lulu, which is a Kansas City-based company that specializes in this for property management.


Andrew Morgans  12:20

I’ll have to, right? yeah, Lulu. But for me, I’m like, okay, or is it? Is it becoming more and more common? You know, because I would say like, 90, probably 98% of the time, if I’m looking for something, especially local, got my GPS location services turned on on my phone, and I’m searching plumbers near me, or plumbers, or, or lawn care. So Google having a much more bigger impact, I guess, than in e-com when I think about it, just a lot more spin. They’re happening based on location,


Matt Watson  12:25

It’s direct response, right? When somebody searches for that problem, they’re looking for a solution today, right? They’re not window shopping, like E-commerce style. They’re like, I need somebody right now to come fix this thing. And 70% of all the leads are phone calls. I would argue the other 30% would make a phone call, but it’s three in the morning. And you don’t, you don’t answer it. You know, nobody submits a form lead on a website that says, I hope you get this message and come fix my plumbing leak as fast as possible without a call. Yeah, no, it doesn’t. It doesn’t happen you call you’re like, babe, I called them they will be here. Like, you know, it’s different industry, is totally different industry.


Andrew Morgans  13:29

Yeah, it’s really coming to mind just now. Like, you know, some of the things that they would face when it comes to that, and sometimes my frustration as a as a tech guy, and he calm guy, and like, is everything here old school, like let me just like, you know, get to what I need to do. And you’re waiting on a call. And you’re like, guys literally calling me and randomly in the middle of the afternoon, like, I don’t have a calendar, you know. But like if your plumbing or your AC is down, like you know, nothing else matters. Like, yeah, I think we had an issue with Internet being down here at the office this week. And a couple of hours, it was, you know, here at the mortal like, you know, the whole floor. I mean, I guess all three floors, the front door, some kind of circuit thing with our security insurance, you know, and the internet. So they don’t know how to come down for security, as it’s three businesses, three businesses that are in a position now. To not to not be able to work out the offices, we know we may we go to a coffee shop, and one has to move or go home. It’s an hour an hour across three businesses. It’s a lot. So these things can be super important, but like where else do they spend marketing budget? Besides, you know, booking appointments? I don’t?


Matt Watson  14:34

Well, so home services, has the best source of leads might be something you’ve never even heard of. And even though you work in marketing, and a lot of people have never heard of is something called Google Local Service Ads. So Google has a whole new program that they’ve launched over the last couple of years called Local Service Ads. And if you go and search like plumber near me, it’s the first little row of boxes that come up on the top of the screen and, and it’s wired for a whole bunch of different services and keywords. Most everything is home service-related, they are expanding to, I think, even automotive and all sorts of, like, there’s a long list. I mean, I think it even covers like bail bondsman. And like there’s like all the they’re all little service company kind of business kind of stuff. Not all home services, but they’re all like local company things, right? Local Service Ads. And they’re great for a lot of industries because they’re, they’re totally different than normal pay per click, where you’re paying, you know, $10 a click, $20 a click whatever, and you’re bidding against everybody. In the Local Service Ads, you pay a fixed amount per lead. It’s a cost per lead. And Google actually has different pricing on a on a phone call lead versus a what they call a message lead, a tech like email, text message kind of lead. But they weren’t great. And it has definitely changed the game and sucked up a lot of the lead volume, even out of like the traditional Pay Per Click stuff. So this Google Local Service Ads is huge in a lot of these, like local services, home services kind of industry. If it’s something that you maybe you’ve never even heard of, it’s totally, totally new thing. So


Andrew Morgans  14:34

Yeah, cuz it’s like, you know, if there was, let’s say, three Amazon agencies in Kansas City, that would be kind of a lot. If we were trying to service like Amazon, just like, you know, there’s three, we can work digitally. So it’s not a thing. If you’re a stay at home service based company, every almost every neighborhood, not quite every neighborhood, right. But every like, municipality, or every every suburb, you know, you’re gonna have two or 300. Yeah, all over each each, like, you know, so because they can only handle so many, because there’s usually a team of you know, they’re less than 10, usually, so how many they can serve us and there’s just really, it doesn’t work in the same way. You know? Okay, so I’m gonna back up just a little bit. We understanding kind of what is working and you know, why, and then how it can serve them better and some of the areas that you’re in, but a more personal question. You know, you talked about selling Stackify, there was an exit before that. Right? And then the founding of Full Scale as well. And now at capacity, you know, what kind of what kind of inspired you to take this one and run?


Matt Watson  17:23

I think it’s entrepreneural ADD. I think so. I mean, I think I have the bug. I, I don’t know, man, I I just like helping people. And I love business. You know, I had lunch with somebody today who, believe it or not had software in a payday loan space. And he was thinking about selling it to other payday loan companies and needed help. And it’s like, well, maybe I can help you if you need, like an advisor or whatever. I don’t know. I just love business. And I love solving business problems and talking to people and I don’t know, I need sorry,


Andrew Morgans  17:54

we’re late. No, it doesn’t have to be a better answer than that actually, like I, for me, I can be over eager. And patience has been something that I’ve had to learn through the process of entrepreneurship. And for me, kind of sometimes having completely different verticals of projects that can be somewhat related. Like for me property management, as a partner, I handle the Airbnbs. I handle for getting photographers, decorating the Airbnb, automation in our email process, or SMS processes. You know, I handle ecommerce stuff, really, like a lot of


You all, you do all of that, for your property management company.


Yeah, I do the digital stuff. That’s what I bring to the table. You know, they still they’re handling all they’re showing actually people, the rentals and, you know, maintenance and all those kinds of things. So they’re kind of related, but it’s also it’s different. And for my, you know, if you want to call it ADHD, it’s also like, whenever this thing is stuck, or I’m having to wait, I can go over here and like utilize, you know, the energy I’ve got, or like it kind of solving a different problem for me is it’s fun. And I think, one you know, you’ve worked in the programming space, development space, sorry, development space for a while, at least with Stackify. And now you’re in service base and local, so not just service based. Home Services, or whatever it might branch into. But I think that local piece is something that I have yet to really tackle. In everything that I’ve done. You know, even Airbnb is booking people traditionally from somewhere else. Yeah. Right. And they’re booking before they’re here. Which is kind of just it’s interesting to me, I have yet to touch the local side of everything.


Matt Watson  19:35

Well, when you say local, I imagine you’re talking about local marketing, right? So you have localization goal, like how do you do SEO like search engine optimization for local and websites that are you know, it’s like our customer is in the suburbs of Knoxville, Tennessee and their SEO is really just about a small little area of those suburbs, right? It’s, yeah, it’s totally different. When you when you think about SEO and things like that. So in my last company, Stackify, we did a lot with SEO and it was global. We had 10 million website visitors a year from every country in the world, you know, across all of them. And so yeah, it is totally different. The the local aspect of it is, is definitely a little different to stop and think, think about for a while, for sure.


Andrew Morgans  20:19

So I called out the, you know, the localization piece are just like thinking even very, very specific, you know, specificity there for what the industry is, and what zip code they’re in, or whatever is like, I mean, that makes it this is your buy box, so to speak. What’s different, what are some of the things that you feel like are different between this the fourth time you’ve been doing this in the first time?


Matt Watson  20:42

You know, I always say, in a lot of my LinkedIn content and stuff like that, now I talk a lot about, especially as a software developer, you go from like, being in love with the code to eventually you got to make the next jump to be in love with the product and the customers, right? And, and then kind of think the next level of it is the building of a business around it is kind of the next level. But then when you when you start working on the business side of it, you you figure out very quickly, what’s more important than anything is how to sell this thing. How do we find customers? Right? And so, you know, I think so that’s the progression of my career, right? You go from code to product to business to now knowing, okay, like, sales and marketing is actually in charge of all of these things. And the great thing about Camp, and the opportunity that we had with this was being able to work with Camp, right? So, Camp had five years of being in the industry, and everyone knows they are and so they’re bringing all the customers and relationships and everything. So that was part of what was made this such a great opportunity was was working with them. And the last thing is any other entrepreneur, I always think about now it’s like, how are you going to sell this thing? You know, if you don’t know how to sell it, it’s so much harder. you got to know how to sell this thing. And something I rave about all the time now.


Andrew Morgans  21:59

I think I can echo that 1000%. I love that you said that. Because if any of the young guys here, Marknology come to me with an idea. Or, you know, someone’s talking me about how this product idea. Yeah, how are we gonna sell it? At least that’s where if I’m trying to help them, that’s immediately what I start thinking about. To think about if they have a good idea or not. I’m like, Okay, if they’re selling this, you know, sunglass case, like, Okay, what’s gonna make us want to sell this? What’s going to make anyone else want to buy this? How are we going to do it? Are we going to use influencers? And I’m not looking for like a vague answer. I’m literally trying to envision, yeah, itself purchasing it.


Matt Watson  22:35

Yeah, fine. You don’t necessarily know what’s going to work, right? You, you just have to come with a bunch of ideas, and you got to try them. And that’s part of what makes it fun. And exciting, too.


Andrew Morgans  22:43

But I think, I think you’re, you’ve just phrased like, what, what marketing and sales is in a fun way, which is when I just think about marketing, it’s like, okay, but when you’re like an entrepreneur and a founder, and you’re like, Look, I need to go to marketing to figure out like, envision, okay, this is how it’s gonna go to market and how people are going to purchase it and the way that they’re going to capture it. And then I can go back to the stuff that I like to do. But you in that, like, that is the most important, you can build the coolest spaceship in the world, you know, or the gas Noah’s Ark. And there’s, you know, no one’s gonna come if they don’t know,


Matt Watson  23:14

Well, well, so that’s the value of what you provide. And what we provide at Camp slash At Capacity, right? Just imagine if you’re a plumber, you’re like, I need help, I need to maybe make my phone ring. That’s the problem they need to solve. I need phone calls, I need people to call me and beg me to come fix their plumbing problems, right? They don’t know how to do that. But they’re experts to do right. So they call us and just like you on the E-commerce side, you’re like, hey, we’re experts at Amazon, whatever you want to sell, you call us, we’ll figure it out. We’ll take care of it. Right? And they build widgets, whatever widgets, they build, they sell whatever the thing is. They’re not experts at marketing either. But you are, right? And so that that’s the value of the business, too, is knowing where you can find that expertise and that help in areas that you don’t know, right? And just like you with property management, I’m sure there’s things that you don’t fix in your own house, right? You’re like you know what I’m calling the plumber to come fix this one. Andrew is not Andrews not going to fix the toilet.


Andrew Morgans  23:14

I have a funny story for that. So this is just a real founder conversation. Marknology was a couple years old. I had started Airbnb being back in the early days of Airbnb and just realizing I can make a couple $100 And I have my loft downtown. I’ll stay at a girlfriend’s house and my sister’s house something and make 1000 bucks that weekend. And when I was getting my business off the ground, it was like a lifeline like wow, this is like Sure I’ll save my girlfriend’s house and make 1000 bucks I have no problem with that. I had already been through a divorce. So everything I had in my house was kind of like new wasn’t like you know, real sentimental stuff, I guess is what I’m getting. I wasn’t like oh my god, someone takes this I’m gonna be heartbroken. And I was there Bing Bing Well, Airbnb comes down with rules like like you can’t do it in a if you already have a lease. You can’t just do it in a place like downtown. So you had to have like you had to own the home, to be able to Yeah. So I’m like, Well, man, I was making a killer. I was literally paying for every trip I wanted to take with my Airbnb home, it would pay for my trip. It was amazing. So I rented this place in Midtown, and made this deal with this guy. He had like 12 houses. So it wasn’t a big corporate company. It was a two bedroom, split level house, the bottom had a basement with a private entrance and a shower. I’m saying all this to say you don’t need you shouldn’t fix everything in your house, I’m a fixer, I like to I like to think I’m a man and I can do shit, you know. And I go down there, the shower need a new showerhead. And I was trying to fix it up to where someone would want to stay in this base. And it make it kind of nice, I go down there. And I’m like, Okay, I’ll do this. There’s a water valve behind. You know, if you pull it off, there’s a water valve, you can turn it off, turn off the water. And then I’ll put this thing on there. Well, I start pulling it off, it touches the valve, it breaks because it was kind of like fragile. And water is like it literally is just gushing me in the face. And in my clothes. Like, I thought I had the water turned off. I’m literally just like, you know, in one minute, I’m having a call with like a brand owner, CEO to CEO and the next minute I’m like, and shower. Well what happened this is like a this was like a house that like they did it just like Jamie rigged it or something you know, so the shut off valve wasn’t the one. In the second one I found wasn’t the one it was in a completely different location than most houses. And whoever had renovated the basement was doing it with RV parts. Oh, nice mobile home. So when I’m looking stuff up on YouTube, like what am I doing wrong, nothing’s matching up. Like it’s like, this is not what goes in a shower. This is like an RV shower. And then I started to call the guy and


Matt Watson  26:41

see any any charges are twice as much to fix it if you tried to fix it yourself first.


Andrew Morgans  26:47

I had to humble myself, you know. So thankfully, I didn’t have a girlfriend or wife to laugh at me while I was happening. It was like I was all by myself. You know, but you’re right. And that’s just a funny story of like, you know, some stuff you just shouldn’t do. You


Matt Watson  27:01

Just hire the experts, man, bring them in and


Andrew Morgans  27:04

Just hire At Capacity and get the job done the ways


Matt Watson  27:06

Yeah, if you want to sell something on, on Amazon, right, you can jack around, you figure it out, or you call an expert, right? Like that’s, and I think I’ve really come to value that in life in general, just like I would call a lawyer or a CPA or whatever. I’m a fan of the fractional services, you know, having, like, I don’t need a lot of companies honestly need like a full-time CTO. There’s a whole bunch of people now that work as a fractional CTO that can come in and help these little startups and tech companies, and they provide an huge amount of value in a skill set they otherwise they couldn’t afford 300 grand a year to hire a full-time CTO, right? Like, there’s so many fractional services like that, that are also super valuable and kind of what what my company does and what your company does is sort of similar that way, right? They could try and do it all in house. Or they can just hire the experts at probably a lower cost. And it’s fractional, right? It makes way more sense.


Andrew Morgans  28:02

For me, it took me a bit of a journey to figure out one it was just coming up in a way where money was tight, you have this kind of mindset of scarcity and like I shouldn’t do it myself save money don’t go the house. Yeah, you know, so myself up type thing. And then you know, but then you turn into a business owner and you just gotta go through those that mindset shift. And then to have was as I became an expert myself in something, and I truly believed that I was an expert in something it allowed me to kind of have more space for for other experts and really see like the value in having someone that’s a pro, do what they do best. I got a couple more questions for you. Before I do finding expert software developers doesn’t have to be difficult, especially when you visit We can build a software team quickly and affordably. Use the Full Scale platform to define your technical needs and see what available developers testers and leaders are ready to join your team. Visit to learn more.


Matt Watson  28:54

That’s a cool company. I like them.


Andrew Morgans  28:56

I love them. I love them. It’s full of good people, also a service company. Yeah, check out the website just if it’s the to enjoy, like kind of looking at team members and like just what you guys have done with I think is really cool. You know, the internal mechanism mechanisms you guys have built to make that thing run and actually make the team members feel like part of part of the team is awesome. So talk to me about like some of the challenges I guess that you guys are facing now as you’ve kind of like you’ve really figured out home services and you’re going into some of these other verticals. You know, kind of what is it defining which verticals could could use it as a you know, what are some of the challenges I guess you guys are facing as a team?


Matt Watson  29:41

Well, so we know it works well for short-term transactions like plumbing, HVAC, electrical, some of these things, but we don’t know how will it work will work for other industries and we’re we’re trying to figure it out. I mean, some of them though, might want a higher risk, kind of like they would any other random digital marketing company and maybe maybe we could service them, even though they don’t get like the real power of what made us unique. So that’s also interesting. Just do talking to other people that just think that we’re experts in digital marketing, they want to hire us anyways, even though it’s, you know, the specific technology part is less, less critical. So that’s part of that bar is part of the problem of being a startup, though, right is you’re like, well, these people want to buy our software, but they’re not really buying it for the exact reason that we wanted to sell it for. And maybe what made us unique gets lost if we go service all those kinds of customers, right? So that’s always the challenge of being an entrepreneur.


Andrew Morgans  30:36

That’ll preach so to speak. Yeah,


Matt Watson  30:38

But we’re, we’re we don’t know. I mean, we think there’s opportunity in like, dental and orthodontist and like, even a bail bondsman or whatever, like, it could be funeral homes have capacity, right? Like, I don’t know, we’ll see.


Andrew Morgans  30:52

And, you know, something I was thinking about, it’s kind of like this forecasting piece that was like, you know, helping educate, let’s say, a dental office. Okay. You know, they’re booked. I know, I’ve waited months to get into the dentist. Yeah, we need to do. And it could be essentially, like, their marketing could also dictate communicate to them, advise them, especially with AI now, maybe it’s time for another office, maybe it’s time to expand, maybe hiring,


Matt Watson  31:18

Hiring more employees, right? Like, that’s the thing we hear all the time. They’re like, well, we want to have that problem, or we’re full, we’ll hire, we’ll just hire more people, right? And so that’s our goal. Our goal is to work with people that want to grow their business, and we’re a tool to help them grow their business.


Andrew Morgans  31:35

Especially if it’s a service-based business that can schedule out, you know, like, let’s say, a tattoo shop or something like that. Where it’s not an emergency, it’s, you know, and so you can schedule out, you’re like, look, we’re booked six months out. We have a marketing pipeline that’s working. The next moves,


Matt Watson  31:54

There’s a problem, though. Nobody wants to work. Yeah, none of these, none of these companies can hire anyone. That’s the problem.


Andrew Morgans  32:01

I honestly can’t disagree with we were talking before we started the show. And we were just talking about, you know, finding good people and keeping them and it’s harder, it’s easier said than done. It’s the same thing.


Matt Watson  32:14

It’s crazy how low unemployment is still like who knows if the unemployment numbers are really real or believable, but we’re recording this on September 14, then when you guys are listening to this. The United Auto Workers might still be on strike from today. We’ll see. But you think about it. The Big Three might almost be in the worst position they’ve ever been been in because who else would they hire to do those jobs? Like there’s nobody to hire? That’s the crazy world we live in, like I talked to plumbers and stuff like that all the time. And like, they can’t even hire people. Like, it’s insane. The


Andrew Morgans  32:50

and the entitlement is insane. Yeah, we got a situation where, you know, asking people can you bring your laptop, to the meeting, you know, can bring a laptop, I’m gonna do it from my phone. That’s not what I’m asking. You know, like, it’s just like, you’re, you’re still in your first 90 days of trial here. You should just kind of do whatever you’re supposed to do. If you’re supposed to have a nametag and your shirt tucked in and your shoes tied and what happened to just like, you know, being excited to be professional and be your best. Yeah, I think that’s that’s something that is a little crazy to me. I think I’m a little old school. For a younger man, I think I’m a little old school and just raised my grandpa around us do things the right way because that’s supposed to be there. And if you have a boss, you respect them, whether you want to work there or not. If you don’t, you leave. But you respect them while you’re there. You know, and I it is hard. If you have talent, if you have like a lot of mental talent, let’s say development skills, or you know, you’re you can be a developer, you can kind of pick where you want to go. Yeah, absolutely. You know, it’s definitely an employee market. Yeah, absolutely. In a lot of


Matt Watson  33:55

Employees are our company, right? Without the talent, I mean, we have no company and you know, it’s no different at Full Scale. We have 300 employees in the Philippines. Without them we have nothing. I mean, they are the company. That’s mean talent is everything and trying to support support your employees take good care of them all that kind of stuff and, and for me on the Full Scale side, I always say it’s like my job is to find them fun work to do, you know, but yeah, you got to you got to take care of your employees or that’s thing about business. Businesses don’t exist without employees employees. Yeah, it can be a giant pain in the neck, but they business doesn’t exist without them.


Andrew Morgans  34:31

So, I fired two clients this week. I don’t love doing that. I’m a I anti confrontational type person. But I had to take care of my employees. Like they, you know, they’re bullying them, you know, just kind of being rude for no reason, like just being ridiculous in regards to demands and, you know, messaging on Saturdays and I need this in an hour and don’t respond until you’ve got this done. And, you know, and we’re nothing without our employees, you know, so as an owner, I’m like, I’m too Yeah, business. I don’t want to fire clients. At the same time, what’s the most important?


Matt Watson  35:04

Yeah, yeah, you’re gonna lose your employees or find better clients. You know, it’s, it’s hard.


Andrew Morgans  35:09

Yeah. And I think, you know, if you’re in that type of service, Home Services type of business, it’s very easy to be an entrepreneur that has a busy eight hour day. I do believe that, like, it’s pretty easy to be, you know, you said, you need four or five appointments. And it’s kind of like, I have to do it. And I used to do a lot of lawn landscaping, lawn care, when I was in school in Hawaii. And even before that, as a kid coming back from Africa, and summers and stuff, and, you know, it’s pretty easy to be making the money I needed to be just with lawns. It would happen word of mouth, people see you do a good job, they say, come home, come do my lawn. Yeah, you know, you ask cold people in your ears as busy as you can be, you know, and it’s, it’s not that hard to do that. Versus being an employee of a small business that’s, you know, five or six people, that’s going to be paying you quite a bit less than if you’re doing it on your own. And so how do you really get from that, that wage standpoint and make it so much more worthwhile to be a part of this company? You know, maybe you’re not having to handle you know, getting any appointments, you’re not having to handle these types of things? I think you have to get really creative these days in regards to scaling your business. But I think, I think for me, hiring was always a hard KPI to figure out, when should I hire? You know, do I have enough business coming in to be able to hire and not have to let somebody go if we lose a client, and I think what you guys are building there At Capacity, I could just really envision that coming down the line of saying, Hey, guys, like your you don’t have to be scarce scarcity minded any more than businesses here, like, you know, how do you grow it.


Matt Watson  36:34

Well, and those are some of the unique situations that our software is designed to help where, you know, think about a plumbing company or something that has maybe ten technicians. You know, they don’t have ten every day, you know, people have days off. They have technicians that work on Saturdays, they don’t work. different skill sets, like plumbing, specifically, that people that only do drains versus full master certified plumbers. So yeah, I mean, just dealing with all that ebb and flow of that is interesting. And that’s, that’s what our software is trying to help the Airbnb,


Andrew Morgans  37:05

I think, could really probably use, you’d have to probably change the software a bit to make it work for Airbnb. But, you know, Airbnb has all of the aspects of traditional property management, and then it has a different payout system than property management. And it has, so you have maintenance, and you have cleaning, and you have the guests. So there’s kind of like this three level layer of of coordinating, you know, when is the checkout time the cleaners have to be there a certain time? Maybe maintenance has to be there on a day that it’s not booked? Yeah, you know, all those kinds of things kind of going into the calendar, it’s, it can be pretty complicated. And what I found is that there’s like traditional property management software, like one we use is called property where it’s pretty high end pretty enterprise. And then you have a separate software for Airbnb and short term rentals, like VRBO, Expedia, there’s like, there’s a few besides just Airbnb, you know, and you’re pulling, you’re kind of taking it out of one and almost manually putting it in your traditional property management software, because there isn’t really a play between them both. And it’s not necessarily just a marketing play. Because you don’t take listings down and put them back up. But it very much so is the availability, and


Matt Watson  38:18

Well, imagine being a cleaning service that cleans these Airbnb properties, right? It’s like, well, you can only clean them between like 11 in the morning and three in the afternoon. What do I do the rest of the day? Yeah, right. Like, that’s interesting.


Andrew Morgans  38:32

A lot. So a lot of those. So someone’s done it five years now. A lot of the cleaners have multiple jobs. Yeah. Okay. So you either have someone full time and you’re having them kind of clean on the properties that don’t have current guests. You either have to flex a couple of part timers, when let’s say there’s a turnover on all the same day, or you block a few of the properties. So a few could turn over and a few have to block. But it’s people that you know, work a night shift. And so they’re like, I’m trying to make you know, extra money from ten to three before I go into my shift, five or whatever is sort of like a gig or almost like a gig job, you know? Yep, exactly. Which, I mean, there we go gigs, too, right, you can look for gigs. So it’s not home services, but it’s another one of those ones where like you only have a certain amount of bandwidth to be getting shows. You know, that’s the ideas just keep coming to a mind and the ways that this can be repurposed, but I think it’s going to be exciting to watch you guys do it. You know, as as we get close to the end of the show, I’d love to just end with a few questions about you know, you’re on startup number four. I kind of think of the podcast is almost like a four and a half like its its its own entity and its own of its own. What’s some advice you’d have for fellow founders, you know, getting saying, hey, maybe they’ve taken a sabbatical and they’re trying to get back in the saddle and kind of figure out what’s next for them?


Matt Watson  39:55

Well, I’m a fan of networking and just meeting other people and you know, Never know what what kind of business ideas you’re gonna run into, or the, you just never, you just never know, you never know who you’re gonna meet who they know. And like the guy I had lunch with today. He’s like, I reached out to you because everybody kept saying your name. He’s like, I talked to people around town about various things, they kept you they kept bringing you up, and I’m like, Okay, well, here we are. Let’s eat lunch. And, you know, I felt like I gave him a lot of great advice today, and offered to potentially help them a little more, if you want to help. And I made a really key introduction for him. That was key. So you know, you just never know with business. And that’s a lot of times that’s that’s how companies get started, right, it’s matching up different ideas with talent, people that need help, whatever, like, That guy probably would have brought me in as a business partner, if I really wanted to go do that thing. I don’t know. You just never know. And the more you meet with people, the more those opportunities come around. And the biggest suggestion I ever have to other entrepreneurs and I saw this on a random TikTok video one day, and I wish I actually knew who the source of this was, it’s way more important to be best known for what you do than being best at what you do. Most of us are so focused on being the best at what we do. But that really doesn’t matter. It’s best known is way more important. I mean, we all use companies services products every day because we’re the best known products. Not because they’re the best.


Andrew Morgans  41:22

You’re right. And that’s a specific business, specifically a hard lesson for me to learn whether people believe it or not, I’m an introverted extrovert. I do kind of have to, you know, to grow the business and network and do those types of things. I was raised by humble missionary parents, very religious, you know, bragging, kind of like putting your your wins out there being like, look, what I did is doesn’t come natural to me, you know, and, but there’s no way you’re not going to get that shot, you’re not going to get that opportunity, if you’re not out there telling people what you’re doing. Telling people what you’re about telling people how great your guys’s team is, you know, you got to be out there kind of putting yourself out there. And I think you brought up something great today, when you said, you know, the networking stuff, and what’s something you can do to kind of figure out what that next project is for you. For me, almost even when I’m feeling low, or I don’t know my direction or whatever, offer that same thing to someone else, who’s someone that I can give some direction to, because they know what they’re doing or some value I can give. And it comes back around.


Matt Watson  42:27

Well, and starting At Capacity came from just meeting with an old colleague, a friend of mine that I’d worked with for over ten years ago. And that’s how I learned about the opportunity and got involved, you know, so you just never know.


Andrew Morgans  42:41

I absolutely love it. People know where to contact you, Matt Watson. You know, it’s been awesome having you on the show, learning more about At Capacity, and just getting a chance to kind of catch up. We’re always moving super fast. But I know that At Capacity is going to be, you know, one that you’re not only proud of but that we’re going to continue to see grow. And I’m excited to see what verticals are you getting into, like if you’re going to e-commerce. I definitely need to be a part of that. And see what you guys are doing. It sounds awesome.


Matt Watson  43:08

All right, man, thank you so much for having me on today.


Andrew Morgans  43:11

You’re welcome, Matt. Thanks for being with us, guys. Thanks again to our listeners. Do you need to hire software engineers, testers or leaders? Let Full Scale help. They have the people in the platform to help you build and manage a team of experts. When you visit, all you need to do is answer a few questions. Let the platform match you up with a fully vetted, highly experienced team of software engineers, testers, and leaders. Full Scale specializes in building long-term teams that work only for you. Learn more when you visit Does this doesn’t seem weird? Did you hear that?


Matt Watson  43:39

You’re doing a good job, doing a good job.


Andrew Morgans  43:41

All right, I’ll take that. Thanks again, Hustlers. Thanks again, Matt. We’ll see you next time.


Matt Watson  43:44

Thank you.