Growing Your Willset, Mindset, and Skillset

Hosted By Matt DeCoursey

Full Scale

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Aaron Velky

Today's Guest: Aaron Velky

Co-founder & CEO - Money Club

Ep. #978 - Growing Your Willset, Mindset, and Skillset

In today’s episode of Startup Hustle, we’re helping you grow your willset, mindset, and skillset. Matt DeCoursey and Aaron Velky, co-founder and CEO of Money Club, also share the secrets to become a rockstar entrepreneur.

Covered In This Episode

The life of an entrepreneur is no walk in the park. It requires the appropriate willset, mindset, and skillset to get through the first few years as a startup.

That is why you should join Matt and Aaron as they compare notes on their own entrepreneurial journeys. And how your “willset” differs from your mindset and skillset. They also discuss the challenges of shifting from an employee mindset to an employer mindset. Lastly, they talk about how Money Club seeks to cultivate these three “sets” in the younger generation.

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  • Aaron Velky’s backstory (02:08)
  • “Willset” and what sets it apart from mindset and skillset (05:26)
  • Giving up some things to create a change in behavior (09:56)
  • Confronting your programming through mentorship or coaching (11:23)
  • Entrepreneurship is not a 9-to-5 job (15:42)
  • How entrepreneurs solve problems and bring value to the world (18:48)
  • Matt on being an entrepreneur, finding balance in his personal life, and being uncomfortable (20:55)
  • Mindset changes being an entrepreneur (23:47)
  • How Matt got the idea of building Full Scale (26:50)
  • What is one of the toughest lessons in money? (30:13)
  • Having an entrepreneur mindset (36:05)
  • On revenue loss and doing the right thing (39:07)
  • Sending help in times of distress and sometimes taking the hit (42:25)

Key Quotes

In a lot of growth and a lot of personal development, there’s a need to get very uncomfortable. In order to grow and when you start to hit your limitations, your willset becomes a really important piece of that.

Aaron Velky

The biggest challenges I’ve come up against have often been really small shifts in my pattern. And our patterns make you feel safe. All of our patterns make us feel safe. So, what I’ve had to give up positively was some of my mental talks, some of my self-talk where I was the enemy, and I was the nemesis. I’ve had to give up doing it all myself. I’ve had to give up my fear of delegation and hiring the wrong person.

Aaron Velky

Here’s the best way to hire. Listen, it’s not just us finding good talent. We need our clients to know how to operate too. And you talked about the right thing, and that’s the whole point: do it with your clients, employees, and family.

Matt DeCoursey

Sponsor Highlight

The right willset, mindset, and skillset can help you succeed as an entrepreneur. However, you can’t do it all on your own. Get the help you need by choosing Full Scale when hiring qualified developers, engineers, testers, and project leaders. Start finding and managing your team effectively and efficiently.

The team of Startup Hustle acknowledges our business and corporate partners. They greatly support the startup community and entrepreneurs in all industries. Together, we can reach better, greater heights.

Rough Transcript

Following is an auto-generated text transcript of this episode. Apologies for any errors!

Matt DeCoursey 00:00
And we’re back, back for another episode of Startup Hustle. Matt DeCoursey here to have another conversation I’m hoping it helps your business grow. Speaking of growing, let’s talk about growing your willset, your mindset, and your skillset. What does that even mean? We’re going to talk all about it today.

Matt DeCoursey 00:19
Before I introduce who I’m happy with having today’s conversation with today’s episode, Startup Hustle is powered by Hiring software developers is difficult, and Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably and has the platform to help you manage that team. That’s my business if you’re not aware, and you can learn more about it at

Matt DeCoursey 00:42
With me today I have Aaron Velkey. And Aaron is the co-founder and CEO of Money Club. He’s also an author, amongst other things, straight out of Tempe, Arizona. Aaron, welcome to Startup Hustle.

Aaron Velky 00:54
Dude, so glad to be here. Thanks, man.

Matt DeCoursey 00:56
Yeah, I’m interested to talk about this stuff. I like these conversations. They’re always inspiring. And, speaking of inspiration, if you want to learn more about what Aaron is doing to inspire people in life and business, you can go to That’s There’s a link for that in the show notes too. So much easier to just scroll down and click that. Now, Aaron, I think the best place for us to start our conversation today is, why don’t you give us a little bit of your backstory?

Aaron Velky 01:28
Happy to do it, man. It’s always interesting giving a backstory because every time, it changes in its own weird way. My journey into entrepreneurship started by coaching youth soccer. That’s the topic and focus of the book that I published as well. Soccer was my first love, my biggest passion. And it was the first time I got paid to do something I love. So for anybody listening, that moment for me, and it either is ahead of you or behind you, if you’re an entrepreneur, is such a turning point.

Aaron Velky 01:59
That led to some marketing. I did some consulting; I did wear all these hats. I was trying to figure it out for a long time. And over the course of about five years, coaching young adults to play soccer really was coaching them in life. It was coaching them on principles, the things we’re going to talk about today: mindset, skillset, willset. And that led to being in a neighborhood that needed to learn about money. So I, with a partner, created a nonprofit to teach kids about money. And once you start this journey, it is unfolding like a flower in bloom; you can’t really stop it. So that company ended up folding as a nonprofit, reopening as a venture-backed business, raising capital, building technology platforms, creating education, all of these things. And now, through the pandemic, pivoted into employee wellness, we go into companies and teach their employees about money as a benefit. And my cap rested from the soccer perspective and picked back up coaching entrepreneurs and coaching leaders. And that has led to team building and speaking and all that. So I say all that because I’ve worn a lot of hats, and I still wear a lot of hats. I never know which hat I’m wearing in which conversation. And this whole entrepreneurship, startup journey has really been about me evolving as a person. And that, I think, is a theme of this conversation today. When we talk about mindset skillset, it really is about the individual leading the movement and the mission. And I think those are three primary reflections most entrepreneurs need to take the time to do.

Matt DeCoursey 03:38
So a few things here that I’m reading my notes, and I see that you went from a background of financial economics to– I’m not gonna– I don’t know if I’ll call this full-on like psychology, but the mindset is psychology in some regards. I know that. I think you’re supposed to be licensed to call yourself a psychologist. You know, another thing too, I was actually saying things I don’t say often. I was talking about soccer yesterday and now. Well, now that the dollar is worth more than the euro. I think we get to call it soccer everywhere.

Aaron Velky 04:11
I think you’re right.

Matt DeCoursey 04:12
Yeah. Yeah. I know this isn’t set to come out until November. So maybe that changes before then. But as long as the dollar is more than the euro, it’s soccer, not football. So for our European listeners, I’m interested to hear your comments. Where’s my guy from Germany with the messages and lessons on the train? Do you still do that? And is it football or soccer? But anyway, so, you know, you talk about willset mindset and skill set. There’s a lot to unpack there. You know, where should we start? What’s a willset?

Aaron Velky 04:48
Well, most…so I think mindset and skills are really obvious. We understand what those are. We talk about them a lot. Willset, in a lot of ways, has to do with your willingness, what you’re willing to sacrifice, what you’re willing to give. It could be what you’re willing to do as far as discomfort, or maybe challenge, or facing your truth. And with a lot of growth and a lot of personal development, there’s a need to get very uncomfortable in order to grow. And when you start to hit your limitations, your will set becomes a really important piece of that. In the experiences that I’ve had, I’ve been a gritty, very resilient entrepreneur. And that’s always served me well until I get to a place where the next level requires a totally different set of skills and mindset. And often, there’s resistance to change. And it takes a lot of willingness. And the difference I’ve seen from a lot of my peers is that they’re just not willing to give it up. They don’t want to give up the nights out; they don’t want to give up the parties to travel; they don’t want to give those things up in the short run to get the long run. And so willingness is a big component, in my opinion, of whether someone really will get what they want out of life, or if there’s, they’ll settle for what they are currently capable of.

Matt DeCoursey 06:13
So you know, one of the oldest sayings where there’s a will, there’s a way, now, when I was in school, and I wasn’t a great student, there was where there was a well, there’s an A, but you know, I think that you talked about the willset, and I wrote a book called balanced mates, the Real Estate Guide to Successful Life. And I talked the very first, like, literally on the first page, I talk about change, and getting what you want out of life invariably requires change. And the change is kind of an ever-flowing thing. It’s like, you know, you can make a change, but you have to be prepared to maintain it, review it. And I actually compare, like some of the things in life, it’s, you know, people are good at making change short term, and then often fall back into old habits. And I’ve had conversations recently with, with a mindset coach, like more of a mindfulness coach, and she’s been helping me understand that, you know, like, remind myself that so much of this is just our own internal programming. Yep. And you talk about, like, so when you’re talking about people not wanting to give things up, or whatever. I think that if you’re having to give up certain things, it’s possible you might not have chosen the right entrepreneur journey because, for me personally, I found a way to wrap those kinds of things into being an entrepreneur. And you know, with that, there’s, and you know, honestly, man, like, I think a lot of people because of the show, and I’m a highly driven person. They often confuse that with being extroverted, like, technically, I’m extroverted, but I’m not a social butterfly. So, you know, I kind of forced myself to go do some of these things because, realistically, I’d rather just be left alone to work on whatever I’m obsessed with. Now, I think if you’re trying to get to that next level, like, Dude, there’s always the next level, there is no top level, like, and I want to, like, get that out there. Because a lot of people, when I talk to them, or they’ll say, Oh, Dude, you’ve done all this great stuff. And, you know, wow, I’m like, Man, I’m just getting started. But yeah, I mean, I definitely agree with you that I think a lot of people, there’s a lot of people out there talking about all the shit that they want, that they’re gonna do, that they need to do, that they have to do. And then they don’t want to do it. Like, it takes work. It takes work. And I think that you know, like, I don’t know, I mean, I even get some computers like, oh, man, you’re so lucky that your business has done so well. And, like, I didn’t feel lucky during the 90-hour week. So, I mean, I do think you have to kind of figure that out. Now, I think anything worth doing is gonna require quite a bit of work too.

Aaron Velky 09:01
The biggest challenges I’ve come up against have often been really small shifts in my pattern, and you know, our patterns make you feel safe; all of our patterns make us feel safe. So what I’ve had to give up, you know, in a really positive way, was some of my mental talk, some less self-talk, where I was the enemy, and I was the Nemesis. I’ve had to give up doing it all myself. I’ve had to give up my fear of delegation and hiring the wrong person. I’ve had to give up, maybe, like, I’m on West Coast time that often runs on East Coast operations. So I might have to give up my early mornings, routines, and things that make me feel safe in a transition period. And when there have been these moments in my life where the question at the end of the day or maybe the beginning of the day, depending on where I’m at, is, Dude, are you willing to get really uncomfortable today? If I’m stepping on a stage and not willing to be uncomfortable, we’re not willing to be vulnerable. There’s no amount of skill or mindset that will go behind that. You’ve got to have this willingness to start. And then, the other two components come in. I love how you talked about, you know, mindfulness and mindset coach, but it’s really important. And how many people early on in their profession, it certainly would have been me who would say, do that super woo-woo. Why would you? Why would you invest in a coach for your mindset, and yet, your perspective and programming are in your entire future mapped out? I can almost literally point to where, as a person, going to be based on their mindset. And that’s a relatively new discovery. And I’m not a psychologist, but it has shown up in our work with money and the work I do with a lot of entrepreneurs one on one. It’s an easy program to fix if you’re willing to confront the programming.

Matt DeCoursey 10:58
Well, I–you know, I’ve shared that the– so I’ve actually been experimenting with different kinds of coaching. And some of it is even non-traditional. Like, I have a friend who’s like a legitimate rock star. And I paid him to talk to me, like, he actually didn’t even want my money. I’m like, No, I need you to take it because this is a business transaction. And I actually was exploring, like, I’m curious. I’m trying to figure out what allows certain people to turn on genius, right? Because I think a lot of us are waiting, you know, we can, I’ve learned to recognize inspired moments and times when you can kind of step into that. And, you know, exploring that, I shared with some of the other day about the mindset, I gave like a little fireside chat last week, and I was talking to someone, and they were asking about mentoring or whatever. And I said, Well, I actually hired a mindset coach recently. And they were like, Well, dude, you’re not –I thought you’re the coach. And that’s not you should never look at life said you should never look at it that way. You know, like, even the I mentioned, like, Okay, so do you know that a lot of rock stars still take lessons from other people? Because it’s a different perspective. And it’s a different form of learning. And that’s why they’re fucking rock stars, man. And, and you know, some of it, but yeah, I think that I hear you, a lot of people would say that they’re like, Well, why would I do this? Why would I do that? I mean, you know, if you look at it, it’s the same thing as when you, like, hire an attorney. And a lot of people like, Dude, I’m not paying $600 for an hour, you’re not paying for that hour, you’re paying for like 50 years of experience that led up to that hour. Yep. And what they’re paying and what they’re telling you. And then I think some of this with, you know, I used to be a sales trainer as well, a long time ago. But you know, the people that were the top salespeople would always show up and want to see the basic training again. And, you know, it’s easy to be like, Dude, you’ve been doing this for ten years. Why are you here? Well, I need to. Every time I sit through something like this, I get reminded of some of the little things I’ve gotten away from doing, and you talk about that habitual thing. So I think that you mentioned the repetition and the comfort zone. And if you’re not ready to be uncomfortable, then you’re probably not ready to change. It’s the same thing. It’s like friction, and you need friction to start a fire. And, yeah, I mean, there you go down 10 million cliche sayings. And, you know, now, so we’ll set in the mindset now, I think you got it, you got to be willing to pay the price, which is sometimes like, here’s the thing, man, I feel like, at this point in my life, I’ve just become used to the discomfort. I mean, in some ways, I can process it, crush it, crunch it, do whatever with it. And you know, and that’s, it doesn’t bother me. In fact, it’s kind of a motivator because I think the sooner you go and get it done, the less you have to deal with the bullshit. You know, it’s kind of like a, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs I know are highly driven, which comes with a healthy dose of not sleeping. Meaning like we’re just constantly in motion, which means it’s hard to slow it down. And, you know, like I’ve trained you ever, like stay awake at night and you’re just staring at the ceiling and igniting. Well, so here’s the thing. It’s because something’s bugging you, the best way if you want to go to sleep, you need to just get up and go deal with it, deal with whatever’s calling you, go deal with that, and then you’re done. And you know, but that’s just comfort. And I think that one of the things that I want to bring up, and the key is that you mentioned some people don’t want to give up the nights or the weekends or whatever. Dude, entrepreneurship does not occur from nine to five Monday through Friday. I would agree. I just tell you right now that is not the way it works. And it’s never going to be the way it works. And you can get a lot done during that time. But I think the world of business and life is going to challenge you. And it’s almost Darwinistic. Like, you can just count, you can count on the fact that the day you walk out the door to go on vacation, it’s probably when something’s going to implode at your business.

Aaron Velky 15:23
I remember those days. I feel like the difference for me when I remember my transition like it was yesterday from employee to employer. And the biggest lesson I learned really early was that I now had a degree of responsibility that was tenfold what I had before, and in other opportunities with me as an employee, I could say no, I could say I’ll deal with this tomorrow, I could say, hey, you know, I, I gotta send this to so and so. And when it falls on you, you have a tremendously different perspective, a different mindset around it. And if you’re unwilling to confront a difficult customer or a problem in your business, do the work on a weekend, or do the work on vacation, it’s only going to be a matter of time before the ship sinks. And, you know, my confrontation with myself through a lot of these moments was often, man, I really don’t want to do this. But what I want more than this moment is a life where I get to travel, a life of purpose and intention and fulfillment, a life where I can say yes to some of these events, travel excursions that, you know, now I have to pick and choose which ones I take, I want to live for, yes, not a life of maybe or no. And in order to do that, this moment is critical. I’ve got to make sure this customer, this client, is happy. I’ve got to make sure they’re getting what they want. And it’s 7:30 pm on a Tuesday; it’s time for me to step up to the plate. And there’s a degree of growth that happens when you start to accept more and more responsibility. The bigger the problem you could solve, the more you get paid. And I feel like the biggest bullshit we hear in entrepreneurship is that you have to, you have to delegate, and you have to, you know, set up a team, and those are accurate. However, you can’t skip the step of understanding how to do it yourself or being willing to do it yourself. And there’s a lot of stuff I get to pay for now as a luxury compared to where I was, but I’m not unwilling to do it. If it doesn’t happen by someone else, I’m capable of doing it myself. And I understand it enough to know when to hire and when to do it on my own. I get that. But I am never unwilling to step up to the plate and handle it if it’s under my responsibility. And that’s something people are unwilling to accept in a lot of places. They’re like, dude, I want to earn 200 grand a year, 300 grand a year. But um, um, I don’t want to be responsible for as much. I don’t want to have to tend to employees and pay for their wages. I don’t want to have to worry about something at 11 pm; I just don’t want that. And they will eventually learn that that is the limiting structure of their lives.

Matt DeCoursey 18:10
Yeah, and I think you’re right with that. And there’s you talking about the value that you provide in the world and, okay, let’s, let’s talk about one of the richest people in the world, Elon Musk, right? And I’m not like a fanboy of Elon. I did just get a new Tesla, and I fucking love it. Hey, look at, like, a lot of people. They’re like, Dude, this guy’s too frickin rich. Okay, but a lot of people say that the money you’ve made, or the wealth you’ve created, is usually parallel to the problem you’re solving. You get some of this literally like solving climate change electric cars, which by the way, my Tesla drove me to work yesterday, thank you. And we’re putting people on Mars creating wireless internet around the globe. I mean, okay, so, like, what problem? are you solving people? Like, I mean, that’s the thing. So like, now that’s not that do didn’t just inherit, it’s not like, so if you look at, like, the richest people in the world, like five of them are like the children of Sam Walton. You know, like, okay, they didn’t solve a problem. All right, no problem set them off. Right. You’re good, like, congratulations on being born. But you know, so that’s the thing, though. And, you know, you’re talking about the inherent problem and also the comfort zone that you mentioned being on the east or west coast. Okay, my employees are in the Philippines. That’s 13 time zones away right now. It is 11:30 pm there, and it’s 10:30 am where I’m at. So literally, the other side of the world, the true opposite side of the world, is where I dragged my ass to do business and make some really profound changes. You know, for the people that work in our company for the clients that use our company. I guess it’s probably I might as well why I’m saying this mentioned that today’s episode, Startup Hustle, is powered by Hiring software developers is difficult, and Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably and has the platform to help you manage that Team But you talked about the comfort level, and I’ve been very transparent with sharing this, if you want to see some of this kind of stuff, you can join the Startup Hustle chat on Facebook. But, you know, the last trip that I was there, my wife, who has the patience of a saint, is, you know, takes care of the kids when I’m gone, which is, I recently learned, when she had COVID, that I how hard that job is, I was reminded of it, but I’m on the other side of the world, and my daughter who has seven and a half got braces, and she sent me a picture of it, and it destroyed me, dude. I found myself in a hotel room on the other side of the world, crying for like two hours. And I shared that with the world. And, like, part of that sharing was because part of my mission is to do it, like with this podcast, and all of it is to tell the real story of entrepreneurship. And it’s not easy, man, it is, and for me, that was like, I don’t know like that. Just like I said, it just literally crushed me. I felt terrible that I wasn’t there for that. I’m gonna literally be on the other side of the world. And that was in the morning. And so it’s like 11 pm there, and I’m just crying like a baby in a frickin hotel room in Cebu, Cebu City in the Philippines. But I shared that because I think it’s important that you talk about the mindset, the willset, and the skillset. So part of a skillset is the fact that, like, I mean, okay, the ability to, I mean, do that is 9000 miles away. And that’s where I need to be. And that’s where I make impactful change. And that’s where I’ve got 280 ploys now, and growing, and this is where you need to be sometimes, you know, and with that comes a price now, you know, part of the upside of that and looking towards making the business bigger, better, stronger, more stable as I continue to stack up leaders and people that are, you know, I’m developing the skill set personally. That helps meek, replicate, duplicate or authenticate. Yep, you know, a lot of the things that need to occur at the business, and it takes time, but I realized that you talked about working towards something for me that prizes, like not having to do it all myself anymore. But one thing I think is important with the entrepreneur mindset is you have to understand that if your expectation is you’re going to bring in people to help you, and they’re going to be as good as you stop because they’re not. Okay, if they were you, they wouldn’t work for you. Okay, and that’s just the reality of it. And then also, no one cares about your business more than you do. So I think probably one of the bigger mindset changes I made as an entrepreneur was my true realization of just accepting that your employees are not going to care about your business as much as you do. It doesn’t mean they shouldn’t care. But no one but But getting that out of my head, I found myself this was Dude, this was like 14 years ago, this point, I’m like driving, and I’m talking to myself in my car, like that’s like where I’m at that point in life, right? Just like, frustrated. I’m having a frickin conversation with myself about my frustration. Why doesn’t everybody care as much as I do? And then I just like, whatever happens, like a lightning bolt, or something, is boom, I was like, Well, I love that. It’s not like they show up, they show up. They’re providing services for pay. That’s the exchange that you have there you have the upside; you also have the risk. But that’s the reality of it. And if you want them to care as much as you do, then make them owners, too.

Aaron Velky 24:03
And pay them, you know, the biggest fallacy we live by as everyone thinks like us, and this goes way beyond just entrepreneurship. Right? This is when we wake up in the morning, and we talk to our partner, when we talk about parents, we’re like, why would someone think differently than I do? But we have our own perspective, our own experiences. And, dude, I ran into that same problem. I’m like, why is my team not working like me? Well, they don’t own like me. They don’t get paid like me. They don’t have the role that I have. And in some ways, you know, if you’re listening, and you can tell me what you want out of life, if you’re clear with what you want, you have precision and clarity in what you want. We can backtrack and say what skills do you need? What mindset do you need? What willingness do you need? What set do you need? We can backtrack all of those things and reverse engineer who we’ve got to become to have the life we want, and sometimes Those skills are really far away. And one of those skills, in this particular example, is recognizing that someone across the table from your employee, investor client desires something different than what you want. And if you can sit there for long enough and listen well enough to figure out what it is they want, you have become capable as an entrepreneur. Most of the world operates on what I get. And the fundamental rule of entrepreneurship, in my opinion, this is really, really important is to shut up and listen to what the other person needs? What are they struggling with? Where are they lost? And where do they need help? And if you can solve their problem, you have a chance to build a business if you can’t discover what their problem is. You can’t be an entrepreneur.

Matt DeCoursey 25:49
There’s really, there’s really no, there’s really no worthwhile or big businesses that don’t solve a problem. Yeah, back to that conversation we’re having about Elon, and once again, like I just probably the first time I’ve ever said Elon Musk, almost like a fanboy, and I do like my Tesla, though. But you talked about solving a problem? And what’s the value of that problem is that the bigger that is, and the better, faster, and cheaper you are at solving it, the faster your business is going to scale. Like I did. So at Full Scale, the–I that started because the reason I was even in the Philippines was, you know, what is now almost 15 years ago, I couldn’t find the kind of programmer I needed in the United States. And I had an idea that I knew was going to make a ton of money. And it did. But I had to find a PHP developer, and 15 years ago, they just weren’t in the United States. So I had to talk about when it comes to willset– if you’re sitting around and you know, where there’s a will, there’s a way, okay, how bad do you want it? That’s just the very first question you gotta ask yourself. And the idea that I was going to have to go find someone in either India or the Philippines. And those are where my research led me. I didn’t know anybody in India. So my family had a Filipino family that had a cleaning business that had provided service for my family for 20 years. So I called the guy up. His name’s Dell Rivera, thanks Dell, for his I even saw him recently and thanked him again. And I called him up, and I was like, Dell, it’s Matt DeCoursey. And he’s like, Hey, Matt, what’s up? I said I need to hire some computer programmers. And he goes, Matt, you know, I clean houses, right? And I said, Well, yeah, but I know you’re from the Philippines too. And he– I said, What do I need to do? Do I need to go to Manila or whatever? He goes, No, man, you need to go to Cebu. And I was like, never heard of it. Like Aaron, have you ever heard of Cebu?

Aaron Velky 27:44
No, not once.

Matt DeCoursey 27:45
It’s the second biggest city in the Philippines. And it’s the oldest city in the Philippines. But everyone’s heard of Manila. No one’s ever heard of Cebu. But this guy literally is like the guy that runs a cleaning service that you know, he says no, not Manila, everyone thinks about Manila, you need to go to Cebu. It’s like the Silicon Valley of the Philippines. 100% spot on. I ended up here. I put an ad in the newspaper. That’s where we’re at in life. And I got a whole bunch of applicants, and the guy I ended up hiring solved the problem that we had been stuck on for two months and unable to solve, and he solved it during his job interview.

Aaron Velky 28:23

Matt DeCoursey 28:24
So you know, so that led to that, that led to a lot of different things. Now, you know, the business now Full Scale, I realized, oh, shit, I’ve got this problem. So so many other people do as well. And everyone’s trying to hire more people. There are two, there are 300,000 Open programming jobs in the US. That’s how short we are here on developers. So you talk about this problem that needs to be solved on a large scale, and we got really good at solving it. Now, what does that require? We only hire one, and we only give a job offer to one in 30 applicants. So that’s also the numbers of where we found that we need to be to provide a premium service and make things awesome. But that said, four years later, we got 300 and almost 300 employees, so you talk about getting to know people with willset skills and mindset. Okay, I want to make more money. You gotta quit. Money isn’t what you need to focus on. You need to get good at something. Yeah. Anybody that anybody that that is doing well financially that didn’t inherit it is likely really good at something. Yeah. What is that?

Aaron Velky 29:37
Dude, I think that’s a really important focal point of all of these things in conversation. Money is an outcome. And when you transition from employee to employee or entrepreneur, one of the toughest lessons is that money only happens after a series of events. It’d be conversations that could be actions. There’s like this, this old axiom that you live by as an employee where you’re like, No, no, I just get paid every two weeks. If I have a good week, I get paid via shit week. If I’m sick for three days, I get paid. If I’m away for vacation, I get paid. And as an entrepreneur, man, if you do not produce, you’re out. And there’s a different Transaction Sets, when I think of what I’m doing with entrepreneurs that I’m coaching or what we’re doing in Money Club, both of those require tremendous input before we get the output. The output is money. But the equation that we have to input is time, energy, expertise, focus, charisma, problem-solving, emotion, and listening, all of these constructs that get you the money. And very few people understand that when they go into selling something, especially early on, most individuals, most companies will not pay you until the work is done. And that means, you know, later you can negotiate 50% down, etc., you can work all those magic money tricks. But initially, you’re going to have to do something with a lot of risk on your plate. You’re gonna have to do the work for free, you’re gonna have to put in the time, and if it goes to shit, you’ve got to eat it and swallow it. And, you know, that’s a willingness, right? That’s a risk. If you’re not willing to take a risk, first of all, this ain’t the right business for you. And right, right world for you to play it. And recognizing that the risk is part of the larger process, but you’ll build the skills by failing, you’ll hone the weaponry as you go, but you’ll miss a lot of shots that require you to say, hey, look, I will do this work. I’m sorry I disappointed you. You don’t have to pay me. And when you understand that process, the money flow, in entrepreneurship, the entire rest of your world starts to change, you start looking at the way you hire cleaners differently, the way you pay for groceries, differently. Everything shifts because you now understand the game. And it’s, dude, this is just a big game. It’s a fun game, you get to evolve, grow, change, adapt and learn. It’s all just a big game.

Matt DeCoursey 32:14
Well, I think that’s the key, that money is just a little, it’s a scoring system. Yeah, you know, a lot of people. So I’m going back to my book, balancing me and talking about the personal side of it. So the number one cause of strife in marriage is finances. It’s the number one source of anxiety with people. Now, I want to point out that if you adopt an entrepreneur mindset, so dude, I’m 47. So when I was younger and broke, I didn’t have Uber, I couldn’t be a DoorDash driver, I didn’t have this, like, instant entrepreneurship in my phone. I mean, shit, I remember getting my first cell phone. And I was, like, I was already 21 At that point, if not older, and, you know, I look at the ability to fix some of this, and you have spent some time doing it. And, you know, my whole phrase that goes with balance me is that success demands payment in advance. And it’s kind of like you said, you got to do the work, and then you get paid. I mean, that’s how it works in a job. Like if you hired a new employee to run your marketing department, and the expectation isn’t that good, you might give them a signing bonus. Sure, that can be a possibility, but you’re not like yeah, I’m gonna pay you ahead.

Matt DeCoursey 33:36
When your first check is due, I’m actually going to be paying you ahead again; that’s not the way it works. So you know, so why would the other things in life or whatever do it now? I think one of the things that that is a challenge and the modern, just meaning like now, kind of mindset is, you know, we’ve got this Amazon one-click stories, reels, you know, kind of mentality when it comes to stuff and expertise is not developed instantly. And I look back, you know, as I’ve gotten closer to 50, I look back at a lot of where I was at, like when I was 25. And you know, I was 25, I thought I was shit, dude. I was ready to be the CEO of the world. In my head, I had no education. I had no experience. I had no money, I really had no, but I just knew that I was ready to run shit. I was so far away from being able to do, you know, and so some of that. You just say you gotta get to work. And then I think that the best way to improve your mindset is to study and adopt or like, just kind of just absorb the mindset of the people that you want to be like, you know, like, here’s the thing, people none of this success is not a secret. It’s really not, and it’s, and it’s just about you, you just gotta start by trying, you know, like, and that’s the thing is, so many people are like, you know, we refer to this as a sense of entitlement. Well, I’m entitled to this. You mentioned 200 $300,000. Your job? Why? Why are you better than someone else? Because it’s a competition. It is. And that’s the thing. So you’re at a minimum, I think the world like in general, you’re, you’re, you’re an entrepreneur, on some levels by just going out and earning at a job, you are the product, you are your own product, you’re the product, so how to better products, and make yourself more valuable. And the way to do that is, well, back to problem-solving. I think that there are a lot of attributes that kind of go with this. And you know, there are some intangibles, like I mentioned, the caring thing. You can’t teach people to care. They do, or they don’t. You know, so that but that’s also, I think, a valuable and valuable thing in the personal product. And you mentioned the caring thing and talking saying, saying to a client that I mean, sometimes you fuck it up, you know, and you have to do the right thing too, because the client that you said, You know what, I’m sorry to disappoint you, I’m good. I’m giving you a refund. Now, look, there’s a possibility you’re gonna give that money back, and they’re gonna say, See you around. Okay? I bet you don’t make that same mistake with the next person. So you got to kind of eat it in some regards. And I feel that I mean, so that, you know, there’s this saying and productivity, and it’s about your life, procrastination is called Eat your frog. Have you ever heard that? I have. Yes. So the idea is that we often know what we need to do, and we just continue to not do it. So the question is, if every morning when you woke up if the first thing you had to do was eat a real live frog, would sitting there and looking at it help, right? Because I think it’s just gonna get uglier and Bordier. And just grosser, right? So, you know, if you know that, you know, I go back to this kind of entrepreneur mindset, if you know that money is your problem, there’s a bunch of ways to get to work after fixing it get to work, you get to work. And as you know, and the main thing is, is like he also, if you want to be an entrepreneur, there’s always risk that comes with it. There’s always risk. I mean, I look at, like, the pandemic, like we were two years into Full Scale, we had millions of dollars of our own money into it, and it was finally going to become profitable. And here comes good old Murphy with his laws, and, and, and humbled us you thought you were done writing checks to this thing, guy, you’re not. But that said, you know, we did the work and stayed the course and did a lot of other stuff. And you know, and it comes back later. There’s nothing about entrepreneurship; that’s going to be easy. You know, Mark Wahlberg has a little mini-series about his clothing brand municipality. It’s on HBO. And in there. He’s someone who says something about an easy business. And he’s like, there are no easy, but where are the easy businesses? Let me sign up for those like, where are those ads? There is no easy miss. Is there an easy business?

Matt DeCoursey 38:11
Not that I’m aware of, man.

Matt DeCoursey 38:13
If there isn’t, doesn’t it pay? Well, do they?

Aaron Velky 38:15
No. And this is such an interesting conversation. So this week, in Florida, today, we’re like hours away from a massive hurricane hitting, right? Yeah. So I’ve got a property down there with two partners that I bought, with all the excess, from entrepreneurship, from my ventures, and my coaching– all of those businesses, I had capital and invested that into an asset down there. So the asset we bought last year, we are, we were supposed to close on the sale of the asset ten days ago. The lender for the buyer got pushed back. This is all real estate jargon. But anyway, closing got pushed back to today. There was another issue that’s going to push it back to Monday. And we had a guest that was supposed to come this week, in the middle of this hurricane. And we have two options. Do we hold a rigid policy? Have the guests come down in the middle of a hurricane and deal with whatever happens? Or do we lose the revenue because if we move them or unbook them, we’re no one’s gonna book it in the middle of a hurricane anyway? So we’re like, alright, let’s just take the five $6,000 loss. It’s a luxury property. So every booking is really, really sizable. And we’re in this position where we can do that and we can afford to do that the property has been very successful. But it always comes back to principles in some way, too. And I think that there’s often this concept that entrepreneurship is simply about money and revenue and what we are earning, and there’s also this degree of value and ethics and morals and principles that that aligns really far into this. And when there are hiccups, hurricanes, or pandemics, we ultimately get to choose the story that we live by the perspective that we live by. And that piece is all back to our mindset dialogue in our, in our triangle, the choice of do you do the right thing or the wrong thing is not a money equation. In my opinion, it’s never a money clip; we just do the right thing if it costs more money and capital to put into the business to pay for the employees so that they have a place to sleep and eat. That’s the choice we make. And, again, that’s another set of responsibilities that seven years ago, when I quit my job eight years ago, I would not have been like, I’m ready for this. I was not ready. My skills were not there. But now I’m like, okay, look, shit hit the fan. Do I pay for my employees to make sure that they have a place to eat? Or do I pay myself? And if I’m in a good enough position, it’s always take care of your team, take care of your team. That’s a different, different mindset.

Matt DeCoursey 40:54
I got a response to that in just a second. Once again, with me today, we’ve got Aaron Velky, the co-founder, and CEO of Money Club at To learn more about where to get his books and what he’s up to, there’s a link for that in the show notes.

Matt DeCoursey 41:07
Before I reply and we’re coming to a thrilling conclusion of yet another episode of Startup Hustle, we want to remind you that if you need to hire software engineers, testers, or leaders, Full Scale can help. We have the people on the platform to help you build a team of experts and manage that team of experts. When you visit All you need to do is answer a few questions and let our platform match you up with a fully vetted, highly experienced team of software engineers, testers, and leaders. At Full Scale, we specialize in building long-term teams that work only for you. Learn more at

Matt DeCoursey 41:40
You mentioned the right thing. So in December of 2021, a super typhoon basically bull’s eyed Cebu City, which is where most of our employees are. And with that, it was pretty devastating. And you talk about the right thing like we immediately sent six figures of cash over. And part of that was, you know, like transforming our office into a place of refuge and like all kinds of things and like, and, you know, and I look back at that now, and like the I was, I’m proud and happy that the instinctual response was boom, not like, I mean, it wasn’t even like it was instant. And then some of it, too, was a level of thoughtfulness. For example, when that occurs, there’s no electricity in those places, which means you can’t go to an ATM, which means you can’t use it. So we found a way to distribute cash, and you know, stuff like that. So the right thing is, is the right thing, but there’s also different degrees of it, and increasing the thoughtfulness and stuff like that, you know, you look back at, you know, at our company, our people are our biggest asset. And, people rarely quit our company. And I think every company does that because we care about our employees. And that’s back to that thing that that’s, these aren’t cogs in a machine, they’re not gears, they’re not whatever. And, you know, they’re, I mean, they’re people, and people have issues and stuff like that. And you know, I mean, for that, you also talked about the right thing, most of our clients stepped up and sent donations through us as well, too. And, you know, looking back, I finally got to go back in the summer. I’ve been there twice this year, but I hadn’t been there for two years because of the pandemic and seen people just the reaction of what a difference that made, especially in a time of need when you’re stressed. And it was like everything we set up was like, you know, go take care of your shit with the business, we’ll be here when you’re not like: Hurry the fuck up and get back to work. That’s not the right way to do it.

Matt DeCoursey 43:50
You know, I mean, and if you look at the risk with that, not only do we send a bunch of money over, we could have lost a hell of a lot of revenue, which that’s two different directions. And that if you go that way, that can be a pretty wide loss. But that said, I mean, these are matters…There are things that are more important than your business. And that’s, you know, a lot of stuff like this, we also in that process, we ended up having to relocate about half a dozen families. And so, and we paid for all that we coordinated, all that we put all of our resources towards that. And, you know, that was, you know, looking back at you talked about the right thing, and these are the–Do the right thing, people, that’s the whole point, do it with your clients, with your employees, with your family, sometimes the right thing is not doing anything as well. And sometimes the right thing is firing a client, you know, just get the whole mentality that the customer is always right. It’s not true. It’s not. So part of your sanity and your mindset, your future success can be threatened by that. So like for us, our employees basically join teams of technology companies and work with them full-time. If we find out that they’re treating our people like shit will fire the client. I mean this lot of money too. I mean, our average clients paying 20 grand a month and ongoing money. So you know, you look at that, and you know, it takes that that’s a no-brainer for us.

Matt DeCoursey 45:13
Well, Dude, we are at the end of our time here. And once again, I want to encourage everyone to click the link in the show notes and learn more about what Aaron’s doing. As I mentioned, I have been experimenting with a variety of different coaches and mentors and stuff like that. I want to suggest that everybody do the same. It’s refreshing, you know, and you’re gonna find that a lot of times, like when I’ve been talking to my mindfulness coach, it’s like– I’m like, I’m saying things that I already know that I just need to make me say it. The me saying that is like this different level of reality than someone else telling you because you kind of deflect a lot of this stuff so, so reach out, people, and be the best you. And you know, if you want to be an entrepreneur, just know it’s not going to be easy. Okay, somebody down the road, Aaron.

Aaron Velky 46:07
Yeah. Thanks, man. Appreciate you having me.