Tips for Entrepreneurs to Become Famous

How Entrepreneurs Become Famous

In this episode of the Startup Hustle, Lauren Conaway and Rainer Zitelmann, talk about the process of entrepreneurs becoming famous.

Covered In This Episode

Have you ever wondered why some people are famous? Is it something that they are born with? Today’s guest, Dr. Rainer Zitelmann, is here to dispel the myths about fame surrounding highly successful and wealthy people. 

Dr. Zitelmann is a German historian, sociologist, and author of “How People Become Famous: Geniuses of Self-Marketing from Albert Einstein to Kim Kardashian.” Our host, Lauren Conaway, and Dr. Zitelmann shared their two cents about what ordinary folks can do to be famous in their field. Here are the topics discussed:

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  • Dr. Zitelmann’s academic background and his transition to entrepreneurship
  • The strategies that famous people do to achieve their fame and wealth
  • Misconceptions about being famous 
  • Dealing with Impostor Syndrome
  • Striking the delicate balance between seeking attention but not distracting your followers from your core message
  • Creating your personal brand by promoting a sense of trust, authenticity, and consistency 
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Highlights

  • Who is Dr. Rainer Zitelmann? (2:48)
  • Dr. Zitelmann’s transition from academia to entrepreneurship (7:42)
  • The entrepreneurial mindset (11:11)
  • What do famous people do that makes them successful? (14:00)
  • The misconceptions about achieving fame (16:01)
  • Building a brand that people can trust (17:20)
  • Your brand needs to be authentic (18:59)
  • Hiding your personality is a sign of weakness (23:34)
  • More fans, more haters (25:16)
  • Getting comfortable with Impostor Syndrome (28:01)
  • Top 5 personality traits of successful entrepreneurs (30:48)
  • Own your awesome (32:16)
  • Building connections (34:10)
  • People just want to be free (39:48)
  • Finding the sweet spot; a little give and take (41:07)
  • Attention vs. distraction (41:51)
  • Albert Einstien’s hair was calculated (43:09)
  • Learn from the laws of marketing (45:32)
  • Takeaway: Find out what works for your personal brand (47:10)
  • Get ideas from successful people but don’t copy them (48:25)
  • Dr. Rainer Zitelmann’s pesonal brand (50:06)

Key Quotes

What’s very important if you want to be successful, whether as an investor, an entrepreneur, or in the academic field, is it’s good to be a non-conformist; to do things differently than others.

– Dr. Rainer Zitelmann

Every brand has a trademark; think of Coca-Cola, McDonald’s, Apple, or Mercedez-Benz. And if you want to turn yourself into a brand, make sure that you are instantly recognizable and distinctive.

– Dr. Rainer Zitelmann

Becoming famous is not an accident. Never. You have to do something about it.

– Dr. Rainer Zitelmann

Rough Transcript

The following is an auto-generated text transcript of this episode.

00:00.00

Lauren Conaway

And we are back. Thank you for joining us for yet another episode of the Startup Hustle podcast. I’m your host. Lauren Conaway. founder and CEO of InnovateHer KC and I would be remiss if I didn’t tell you that today’s episode of the Startup Hustle is sponsored by Gusto. Gusto is a modern solution platform for modern hr problems whether you are working with talent management, payroll, or onboarding tools, GustoS’HR platform has it all. They make it super easy to be smarter than your competitors and the really cool thing is you can actually try three months free with a subscription through Startup Hustle. you can sign up at http://gusto.comback/startuphustle to get started. That’s http://gusto.comback/startuphustle so today we have a rare individual of genius that we’re gonna be talking to. And I do have to tell you something interesting that I learned in the course of doing background on this particular guest. In some areas of the world some parts of the world if you have 2 doctorates you actually refer to yourself as a doctor doctor so we have a doctor doctor here with us. Today which I find hilarious and lovely and wonderful. But we are joined today by Dr. Reno Reinno Zeitelman and who is the author of how people become famous geniuses of self-marketing. So but from Albert Einstein to Kim Kardashian and that is a really exciting concept to me. Ah, because I think we all are aware that in this world of social media and this world of things that move so fast people who are able to market themselves well are seeing really great success and so we’re going to be talking to Dr. about the secrets and about these individuals who have achieved stratospheric success how they did so what that looks like and what that means for you as an entrepreneur. Thank you so much for being here. So so let’s go ahead and get started I’m going to hop right.

02:05.71

Rainer

Thank you.

04:24.12

Lauren Conaway

Into it and first, the first thing I actually want I want to learn a little bit more about you and I’m going to ask you, you are a prolific author you are a historian you are an entrepreneur There are so many different facets to your journey and I want to hear a little bit more about that tell us. How did you come to where you are today.

03:03.61

Rainer

Yes, thank you I started as a historian and I started history and political science and then I wrote my first doctoral dissertation in history and paused their assistance. So for a couple of years at the free university in Berlin where I live ah right now and then arose for a couple of years in the leading position of one of the leading german daily youth papers. But in 2000 I started a new thing I was 43 years old then in 2000 and I founded my own company I became an entrepreneur so I quit my job and founded my own company. It was a puppy relation company focused on the. Real estate industry. So our clients were brokers and read and listed companies as project developers and we became number one in this niche. So the leading pr ah agency in Germany for. The real estate industry and I owned a lot of money at this time I invested it in the real estate market. It was a very good time in Berlin to invest especially in residential. But then six years ago I sold my company I wrote my second. Doctor dissertation and this time about a different topic in sociology. It was about the psychology of super-rich people and I ah conducted interviews with 45 people who had. That worth most of them between thirty Million Euros and one billion Euros and I spoke with every one of them for between one and two hours, in the end, I had 1700 pages of transcriptions with his interviews and this was the basis of mine. Ah, second doctor dissertation and now I’m not retired I sold my company but I don’t have to work for money because I earned enough this time and what I’m doing now I write I’m writing books now my book number 26 will be. Published in two months and they are published in a lot of countries for my new book I have the goal this year to make contracts with about translation into 20 languages. This is my purpose.

10:47.94

Lauren Conaway

How.

08:47.89

Rainer

Here. So and so now almost every day I speak with people from everywhere in the world in Russia, Greece, Poland, Spain, Italy, Vietnam, Korea or China or so. This is what I love to do to write these books to have them translated into another language which is and then I travel a lot when it is possible again because of course the last two years was not possible because of covid nineteen. But hopefully, the situation will be better now and then I will start. Traveling again speaking about ah my book. So this is what I’m doing today my life in 5 minutes

12:14.86

Lauren Conaway

Well I I certainly hope that you when you when you get back to traveling that you make a stop here in Kansas City because I would love to to pick your brain you just you have ah such ah, a diverse wealth of knowledge locked away in that in that head of yours and so so. Ask you you you took a little bit of ah and an unconventional path I would say you started out in academia and then and then became an entrepreneur and I always find it really interesting when academics become entrepreneurs because I feel like they are very um, different. As far as culture. You know when I think of academia I don’t necessarily think of fast pace and innovation and that’s not a knock but but when I think of entrepreneurship I think of that highly innovative mindset that an entrepreneur must have and so I have to ask you? What was it like to go from. Um, such a a different vertical.

12:17.91

Rainer

You’re absolutely right. There is a huge difference between academics on the 1 hand and entrepreneurs on the other hand for example, entrepreneurs they they follow more their intuition their their gut feeling and academics. They are more with.

14:49.18

Lauren Conaway

Yeah, research and structure and all of that.

12:52.33

Rainer

Analysis and so science analysis is was is a sad job and not so much with intuition but they have something in common. Always if they are successful. They are creative creative people and they are ah free. Ah what? what to do. All over the day. There’s you know if you are professor at a university. Okay, you have some oblig applications but you are much more free than most ah employees in a company so they have something in common. But of course there are differences and for me it was not such a big issue because. I was always a kind of of of outsider I was always someone a kind of non-conformist and so it was for me, not not such a big change especially because not so complicated on political issues because. Um, in the academics you know is I think it’s the same in the United States as this is in europe most people are more left-leaning and entrepreneurships are more than they’re more pro-capitalist that not so much left-lea but I’m my old opinion is also more. Pro-capitalism and so this change from the academics to entrepreneurship was very interesting experience for me. But um, it. It was a good experience.

17:54.32

Lauren Conaway

Well and clearly you made the the transition very very well. Um, you know, very successful in all of the paths that you have tried because really, you’ve but you’ve tried many, You’re a man of of many different talents and halfs and so let me ask. This Um I think one of the things that you just said was very um, very interesting and very insightful that there is There is some commonality between between the academic side and the entrepreneurial side and so my question to you is is talk to us. Little bit more about that because here around startup Hustle. We talk often about the entrepreneurial Mindset. You know that creativity that resourcefulness that ability to Pivot Dammit I’m so sorry I I’m gonna have to have them cut that out. Oh I Just sneezed I couldn’t I was trying to hold it back So hard. Um, okay.

17:35.85

Rainer

That’s the fifth of me that I don’t see you anymore. Is it possible to make it again or.

19:46.82

Lauren Conaway

So so you went you went blurry and I’ll turn my camera on again. But I’m concerned that we’re gonna have a network problem. Um.

17:55.39

Rainer

okay okay I know the I know you are there and for or first 2 or 3 minutes I was not sure whether I whether you are still or not.

20:16.52

Lauren Conaway

Yeah, no I will always be here I Just what I don’t want to have happen is I don’t want to have our our files get um like I don’t want to I don’t want it What happened last time to happen again and so I’m trying to conserve our bandwidth. Well so so okay, so.

18:34.30

Rainer

Okay, let’s start again then.

20:54.92

Lauren Conaway

Now that I’ve gotten that sneeze out sorry tech team. We I notated. It’s at Nine Forty Eight if you could cut all about 2 minutes all right? So so. So clearly you made that transition very successfully and because you you are a man of many hats and many talents and you have succeeded in every every endeavor in every area that you have tried from from what you’re you’re telling us and what we’ve seen but you said something really really interesting. And you were talking about the creativity piece of like academics must be creative. Entrepreneurs must be creative. So there’s a commonality there and I’m wondering if you can talk to us about about that that mindset. Um. That mindset commonality because I do think that one of the things that we talk about a lot around startup hustle is you don’t necessarily have to be an entrepreneur to be entrepreneurial right? And so so talk to us a little bit more about that.

20:49.27

Rainer

Yes I Think what is very important if you are if you want to be really successful whether it is as an investor as an entrepreneur or in the academic field. It’s It’s a good idea to be a nonconformist. To do things different than other people I think it’s very clear with entrepreneurship if or with investments if you do the same thing as and everyone else you can’t become super rich. For example, as the people I did this this interviews. So You have to do things in a different Way. You have to you have to act different and to act different. We have to think different even you have to enjoy it to to swim against the stream sometimes and this is also true for.

24:42.80

Lauren Conaway

Sure.

22:45.63

Rainer

For for scientists or for academics who were really good in their field. So we’ll be talking today about this about my my ah book the genius of self-marketing And for example I Alllbert Einstein ah his perfect example. He was always all over his life someone ah nonconformist in in everything that that he did and I think this was also a precondition for his success. Ah. In in science and so I think this is something in in spite of the fact that academics and entrepreneurs are very different in a way but this is something that the real successful people in both of these fields have in common to be. Ah. Nonconformist not to do the same thing as everyone else and have fun in thinking different out of the box thinking.

26:50.44

Lauren Conaway

Sure.

27:01.50

Lauren Conaway

Yeah, well and that’s that’s just such a nice segue to to the meat of our discussion I think and so so I’m going to ask you? You know you you write? you’ve written about super rich people. You’ve written about. Ah, most recently how people become famous that that kind of influencer attitude and so when you look at like not everybody can be Albert Einstein but there are definitely pieces. of of Albert’s journey or you know some of the other folks that that we’ve talked about you know Steve jobs Kim Kardashian these people who have become really good at selling themselves in order to sell a product or sell you know something whatever it is. They’re doing um, what are. Some of the the things that you see these people do time and time again to achieve success in that.

26:46.25

Rainer

Yes, it’s it’s absolutely correct what you mentioned and I’m not just talking about ah becoming famous in ah in a narrow sense I’m I’m talking about turning yourself into a brand and I think the most important precondition. Is to first realize whether you have internalized harmful beliefs in your subconscious mind I I will give you some examples um beliefs that prevent you from ah becoming famous or let’s let’s first define. What I mean with famous famous doesn’t mean necessarily. That you are as famous as Anna Schwartsnegger or Steve Hawking or Madonna or Steve Jobs it’s It’s not necessary for most people if you have a small ah company or mid-sized company for example in Kansas then only people Kansas have to know you it makes no sense.

30:43.80

Lauren Conaway

Great.

28:43.67

Rainer

If people in Berlin or in or in Paris or in St Petersburg know you if your business is only in Kansas but people in Kansas of course, especially your your ah potential customers or or clients should know you they should know about your. Products or about your service and so ah I think this is important to make clear what I mean with becoming ah famous I took of course as an example, people were were really ah famous all over the world but you can you can learn from. And from their experience even if it is not your goal to be ah to be famous as Madonna for example and so so I speak about to turn yourself into a brand and and the problem is that a lot of people.

32:21.48

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

30:38.77

Rainer

Learned in their childhood or in their youth things like don’t blow your own Trumpet or modesty is a virtue or don’t be a show off and I think as long as you have such beliefs in your subconscious mind. You will never become. Famous and and because you have to understand becoming famous. It’s not an accident. Never it doesn’t just happen. You have to do something for it and and I analyzed in my book. What the people did to became famous and to to prove the fact that it is no.

33:32.58

Lauren Conaway

Grant.

31:55.81

Rainer

Accidents that they become become famous.

34:02.80

Lauren Conaway

Sure yeah I definitely feel like like it’s a very it has the potential to be a very calculated thing and I would I would guess that if you do not establish your own brand and establish it early and establish it consistently someone else. Will establish it for you. They’ll they’ll talk about you but but I think that you know for the purposes of of the entrepreneurs listening at home that branding piece to your point. It’s it’s not necessarily that people want to go on Instagram and have a million millions of followers like that’s not necessarily the point. For most of us particularly as entrepreneurs we we want to build a brand so that we can be trusted within our space. You know you want people to associate you with your product what you’re selling what you’re in you know, whatever it is. You’re promoting. But if you are trusted then by. Extension your product is trusted right? and so that could be a space from as small as you know selling dog bit homemade dog biscuits. But if people trust you they’re more will they’re more likely and more willing to buy your dog biscuits right.

34:14.91

Rainer

I agree Absolutely and you you used the the key word in Business. It’s all about. Trust it’s all about trust I Read a biography about um about one of the richest. Man in history Rockefeller and he said he he owned all his success in life because other people trusted him and it’s it’s all about.. Trust For example, if you if you sell your your product or if you sell your service. Your. Your customers have to trust you. But even if you go to a bank and you want to get a loan bankers have to trust you and if you create business partnerships with other companies. Your business partners have to trust you and if you ah. You want to hire new employees for your company people have to trust you So it’s It’s all about trust and um I think if you turn yourself into a brand it means to be authentic, a lot of people they say. Try to to hide their rough edges and I think we we all have our rough edges. But if you want to turn yourself into a brand. You can’t waste time worrying about rubbing other people the wrong way and people who are.

38:58.80

Lauren Conaway

Right.

37:22.93

Rainer

Addict to to harmony have a harder time to become famous and ah successful. This is what I show in my book that geniuses of self-marketing such as Madonna or wormet Ali knew that it’s not just about being better. It’s about it’s all about being different.

40:05.66

Lauren Conaway

Right? Well in going to that going going a little bit more deeply into that trust piece but also being different I think that I want to clarify for for the folks playing at home that when when I’m talking Trust I don’t mean that.

38:02.50

Rainer

From others Eastland it is very important.

40:43.48

Lauren Conaway

You would trust someone with your baby or trust someone with with your life even when when I when I’m talking about trust and I think when we’re talking about trust I think what we are meaning is I trust you to be consistent in who you are that authenticity piece. So so just as a for instance. You know I don’t think that anybody would trust Steve Jobs or elon musk you know people who have very very strong personal brands I don’t think anybody would necessarily trust them to be a nice guy but they would be trusted to be brilliant and inventive and to put out good products. So so that trust. Piece isn’t necessarily that warm fuzzy trust that we associate with like our our dear friends and family. It’s you are trusting someone to consistently be who they are in order to put out a good product or create a good program or initiative right? and correct me.

40:26.90

Rainer

And absolute yeah well no that that’s absolutely I while you spoke I thought about a very extreme example 1 person not as well in my book and and it’s 1 person that with a.

42:37.40

Lauren Conaway

Correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s that’s kind of my feeling on the subject.

41:04.95

Rainer

Extreme polarization Donald Trump I think there’s no one in the United States who either they they love him or they hate him. But I think there are there are not so many people who say okay he has some positive things and some negative I belong to this minority if you want to know my opinion I say.

43:11.60

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

43:24.12

Lauren Conaway

The story.

41:43.69

Rainer

There are some positive things there some things you can learn but there are also some negative things. But um, even if you hate him or even if you are a fan. Ah, and even if you are on the on the opinion that he lies but. Very often I think there there are a lot of examples where he didn’t tell the truth but you you always have the impression. He is authentic in his way that he did that he own’t let’s a.

44:37.20

Lauren Conaway

Right? You always know what clue expect from him. He even though he might do surprising things or say surprising things. It is never surprising that he is polarizing and um controversial because that is a part of his brand.

43:04.23

Rainer

So so yes, the people who ah, who admire him they they think that he speaks more the truth as other politicians do in in spite of the fact that that if you make a fact check you can often see.

45:13.12

Lauren Conaway

Right.

45:28.74

Lauren Conaway

Right.

43:39.27

Rainer

It It was not the truth that he said but but people believe or they have the feeling that he’s authentic that he that he doesn’t use any for example, politically correct phrases or something like this but that he thinks that the the he speaks the way he thinks and and so um.

46:03.58

Lauren Conaway

Right.

44:16.49

Rainer

This is of course a very extreme example but there are other examples in in my ah book and think about Steve Chops of course he was a difficult purse. We know it from this ah ah biies about him that he was a very difficult person. But.

46:43.20

Lauren Conaway

Right.

44:55.21

Rainer

He fascinated people on the one hand on on the other hand he could be very very difficult and and hard with other people but and and sometimes even when he was in a meeting. He started to to cry or the next time to shout or everything but people believed always that.

47:03.40

Lauren Conaway

Right.

45:34.90

Rainer

This is authentic and and a lot of people they shy away to show their own personality and but this is this is a sign of weakness and most people don’t like weak people most people like strong people.

47:53.30

Lauren Conaway

You guys.

46:10.11

Rainer

And and if someone has always only this polite phrases and speaks things that that you want to hear you don’t trust him because to think um ah why he’s not so authentic. Maybe he hides something maybe he has something to to hide. And so I think 1 recommendation is that as an entrepreneur as an owner of a smaller mid-sized company I think there are a lot of people in your audience and this is what I did for a lot of years. It makes makes sense to be authentic.

49:20.22

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

47:25.31

Rainer

And um, it makes sense to to connect your company with your person Even if you know that not everyone will will will like you but this is always yeah you you will find no speaker or you will find no pop star or no one who’s.

49:52.70

Lauren Conaway

Yes.

48:04.99

Rainer

Like by by everyone look another example I have ah 1 chapter about Madonna of course she has millions and millions of fans in the world and she earned hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars but of course she. Had always a lot of haters and a lot of people who criticized her because of her provocation. But ah, this is to to I think everyone who’s on social media or on Instagram or Facebook knows this in the moment. When you get more fans you get at the same time more haters and if you can’t live with with this then it’s very hard to become famous or sorry for ah last example, muhammet Ali he he polarized absolutelyly.

51:29.20

Lauren Conaway

Right.

51:49.40

Lauren Conaway

Dear.

49:53.37

Rainer

People really hated him at his time and for others it was their hero I think today for most americans he’s more ah ah hero. But this was not all times at this time in Vietnam war ah times and so he polarized very. Very extreme and there were a lot of people who hated him but in the end they had he had. They had the feeling here’s someone who stands is crowned here’s someone who’s authentic here’s someone who goes his own way.

52:40.84

Lauren Conaway

Right.

53:06.32

Lauren Conaway

Yeah, well so so I love that because what I’m hearing is that you know you you said that if when people are inauthentic or not willing to to share of themselves Authentically that that that’s a weakness and so so by like the flip side of that. Point is that it is actually strong to be vulnerable to say what you really feel be who you really are even in the face of people who might not respond well to that and so so I love that and I do think that that that strength is the underpinning of trust. Um, you know the kind of trust that we’re but we’ve been talking about now I will say um you know we’re talking about trust here and I don’t know if you have heard of gusto but gusto is actually 1 of the most trusted hr management platforms managing your team with gusto can be as easy as one two 3 it is so so simple you don’t have to stay up late night. It’s processing your pay. What rule you don’t have to have trouble with your business tax filings. There are no more painful spreadsheets for attendance draggging I don’t know about you. But for the longest time I had so many spreadsheets just tracking all this stuff and it was really difficult to manage. So with Gusta. You get a smart hr platform. We would definitely encourage you to check out http://gusto.comback/startuphustle because startup hustle listeners actually get a free three month subscription to try it out now. So definitely check out http://gusto.comback/startuphustle so so getting right? back into it. You know we’re talking about authenticity. We’re talking about trust I’m going to ask you well I have 2 questions but the first is is this you mentioned something a little bit earlier that really resonated with me so many people. Are told that by hyping themselves up or sharing their accomplishments or their are their wins that can be seen as bragging you said, don’t what it was it. Don’t toot your own trumpet here in in States. It sits don’t toot your own horn but very similar. Um, you know, but but often we are societally ingrained.

55:03.29

Rainer

Um, where’s.

57:29.66

Lauren Conaway

To hide our accomplishments because it’s seen as braggy or it’s seen as Hubris and so I want to talk to you about getting comfortable. You know for our entrepreneurs who are listening right now if you are experiencing that imposter syndrome if you are experiencing that fear. Sharing what makes you you? What would you tell them doctor. What would you tell them about you know, getting getting comfortable with that because I feel like that’s the first step.

56:26.73

Rainer

Apps. Absolutely absolutely. Yes, it’s it’s not about playing any role that you don’t want to play but on the other hand I think anyway it’s necessary sometimes that you start to experiment a little bit I think um. Think the most important formula for success is the combination of stamina on the 1 hand and the willingness to experiment on the other hand if you have Stamina of course this is important for entrepreneurs and just often mentioned but this is only 1 thing. Have to experiment you have to try new things and if you do always the things in the same way as you have done it before because of course you feel most comfortable when you do the things in the same way you did before then you can’t expect any other results.

01:00:15.78

Lauren Conaway

Right.

58:20.11

Rainer

This is also a quote from Albert Einstein is that if you do always as things the same way and you you expect different results. It’s so it’s insane. It’s it’s really crazy to expect them. Yes, and so and so I think ah you should.

01:00:48.31

Lauren Conaway

Yep I’ve heard I’ve heard that quote for sure.

58:58.33

Rainer

Maybe think about it to to start to experiment to to to be open for a new experience. This is by the way a result of psychological side of um of psychological studies about entrepreneurs and they they. Um, they did a personality test or psychological tests with successful entrepreneurs and try to find out what’s the difference between them and other people and there is the so-called big 5 model that is ah. Big different personality traits and 1 personality trait that is very important for entrepreneurs is openness for new experience. So and and what new experience could be if if you heard if you heard often.

01:02:37.24

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:00:46.53

Rainer

And these things like don’t be a show off or something like this of course you will not feel comfortable in in the first time if you but it’s always if you do new things in in most cases, you don’t feel comfortable I I remember I had a.

01:03:04.88

Lauren Conaway

Right.

01:01:22.71

Rainer

Trading a partner she she was my friend as well and we we were on the chin and most we we did the same exercises but sometimes I told her okay let’s do something new new exercise and I knew all the time she said no no I don’t like it I think. Let’s let’s do the other one that we always did and give it a time. Give it a time. It’s not that you will like it. The first time. Try it for a couple of weeks or a couple of months and then if you don’t like it. Okay, then they get it but but this is I think in the moment.

01:04:07.24

Lauren Conaway

So.

01:02:37.19

Rainer

When you start doing things different in the moment when you start to experiment. It is absolutely natural that you that you feel sometimes not so ah, comfortable with this.

01:05:03.20

Lauren Conaway

Yeah, well so so one of the things that I always tell innovate her Kc members. Um, and it’s what it well. So so I always tell them own. You’re awesome because I do think that you know I think that society imposes certain expectations around accomplishment like it’s okay to accomplish. Which things but it’s not okay to talk about it and and I’ve always found that to be a bit unfair like I feel like if you have the the skills and the achievements to back it up like please. It’s not. It’s not Eric against it’s just real realism when you’re you know, sharing sharing that side of yourself with people and so I always tell our members to own. You’re awesome, but it’s it’s a struggle that I have as well. You know I have. Often struggled to to be the quote unquote face of my organization and and it’s been a real. That’s been part of my leadership journey getting more comfortable with that because again I understand that there is a utility to Lauren represents innovate her kc. And so therefore if we trust Lauren we trust her organization. There’s a huge confluence of benefit around me getting comfortable with being a face of an organization. Even though it’s against my instinct. So so let’s say that. You know you’re you’re talking to somebody and they have gotten comfortable with that piece of the puzzle they’re like okay you know I’m ready to create my personal brand and I am ready to figure out what sides of me and what pieces of me I want to show up with consistently so that. I can build that trust relationship with the people who are watching me watching my company watching you know, whatever it is. What would you tell them.

01:06:46.89

Rainer

You have to do a lot of things. For example I think 1 thing is very important, especially if you are entrepreneur. Ah, it’s all about ah ah, public public public relations. This is something that you can learn from the people that. I mentioned in my book as muramet alio Andy Warhol or Steven Volg Hawking they devoted a great deal of time and energy to to press and public relations work to to build their brand. They gave countless indi interviews and.

01:09:33.74

Lauren Conaway

Um.

01:08:05.70

Rainer

Knew exactly how the media worked and which stories journalististss were most interested in and they delivered those stories all the time and I think ah pop is so important look for example, arold schwartsnegger. Everyone of the world.

01:10:24.16

Lauren Conaway

So yeah.

01:08:40.85

Rainer

The world knows him you know I travel a lot and I was even when I was in China in in the city said I spoke about a schwartzenegger almost everyone heard his name and and and knew how he looks with his bi and so but how did he.

01:11:12.44

Lauren Conaway

Right.

01:09:15.13

Rainer

Only with population and if you read his autobiography totally recall I can recommend it to to everyone to read this autobiography It’s amazing because all his success in life was in the end about with publiculation. He became. 1 of or the most popular bodybuildder in the world. But some people think he is the guy who has the most muscles a the the the the best bicycl um, of course he he has a lot of muscles up. There are other body buildders today who have much more muscles as other schlots. Egg I had.

01:12:17.72

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:10:29.47

Rainer

But you don’t know her name. You never heard him only if you are maybe a bodybuilding expert but you you don’t know but you know his name Anna Schwarzenegger and you know then he became 2 times governor of California interver. Ah again, public.

01:12:48.76

Lauren Conaway

Yeah, right? Yeah, he was able he was able to take that to use that I guess Social capital that he had built through being a bodybuilder to parlay that into an acting career and then turn that into.

01:11:21.19

Rainer

Yes, I people people told him.

01:13:27.66

Lauren Conaway

Ah governorship he was excellent at leveraging social capital which I think is kind of what this is about. Would you agree am I right? I don’t know you’re the expert.

01:11:36.31

Rainer

Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, but but ah, but the people said when he started when when he started in movies in hollywood they they told him it’s a crazy idea look at your body. No one want to see a body as you have this was. Maybe in the 50 s or in the sixty s with with hackerless ah movies. But today we we like people like Dustin Hoffmanner or not people looking like you and then look your strange accent. You have this strange austrian accent ah people people will not like it and and then ah.

01:14:43.48

Lauren Conaway

Variety.

01:12:52.27

Rainer

And then your name No one can write our sch shots say well no one can pronounce your name and and the next thing ah have you heard that ever someone from Europe was so successful in in in in Hollywood and there were a lot of reasons against it but he understood it to. To Churn the the alleged um, um, the deficits are are liabilities into real as assets. For example, his body loss and acids then and not liability or even his accent He he said.

01:15:55.10

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:14:06.99

Rainer

Okay, everyone will know when when I’m talking even if they hear or that’s this guy with a strange accent so he and and another thing we spoke about provocation and I think this was also so ah, something. That he did very often said sometimes outraged things only that that and to to to attract awareness. For example, he had an interview in in Tv and then they asked him how is it about pumping. Pumping maogen what is this feeling for you and he said them. Ah, it’s like having it’s like coming so like orcasm like having sex with ah with women’s or and and with women and of course sometimes that crazy he speaks here about orgas visit things. But of course this were the things. Ah. A kind of provocation and even he did it in his private life For example, there was one one funny story and when he first ah met ah the the mother of his ah later wife you know who was a part of the.

01:18:07.68

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:16:33.59

Rainer

Ah, Kennedy Clan 1 of the most famous ah families in the United States and then he said to to the mother of his girlfriend was one of the first things he said he said to her look I think she has really a great but so.

01:18:45.88

Lauren Conaway

Now.

01:19:09.22

Lauren Conaway

Hello. Yeah.

01:17:09.83

Rainer

But can’t you imagine this or I think this is little it crazy at but other did as well. These’s crazy things and Andy Warhol did things much more crazy and wohamed ali did this and Albert Einstein did this and so I think um and I think these people also had fun.

01:19:33.74

Lauren Conaway

Split.

01:17:46.69

Rainer

Do these things because usually there are so many restrictions from society people tell you you should do this and that and avoid this and you have to act this and this way but these people want to be free. They really want to be free and to be free means ah to to act sometimes in a way. Maybe to surprise people are even of course you shouldn’t exaggerate it and if and this is another very important lesson in my book and if you do some steps too far with this provocation then you have to go to to go back. This was for example. Madonna is a genius in in this things sometimes she you are so extreme with her provocation. You know about sex and religion and and to combine all these things and and she got a lot of problems but then okay, she understood. Okay, now this was one 2 or 3 steps.

01:21:11.40

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:21:27.62

Lauren Conaway

Sure.

01:19:43.25

Rainer

To to find this direction now I have to go back now I have to do something more mainstream like then she did maybe another what she called a girlish show or something what is more more harmless so and with muramet Ali it was the same on the 1 hand he was very provocative and and.

01:21:57.44

Lauren Conaway

Right.

01:20:21.25

Rainer

Ah, extreme. But then later in his life. He understood. Okay, ah sometimes to to to step back or every so you you you have to find the the the third the panel.

01:22:50.38

Lauren Conaway

You’re trying the sweet spot. There. It sounds like there’s definitely a give and take you know you definitely want to get noticed. You know do something that is enough outside the norm or enough that is like intrinsically you. That it carries through gets noticed but you also don’t want and I feel like like maybe you know when Madonna she was doing like these really really crazy shocking things that really really offended people and she decided that she had to dial it back I think that a piece of that that decision. To be the fact that you know maybe what I’m doing is distracting from my message from my music from this image that I’ve created and so so I feel like and again you know, correct me if I’m wrong or kind of help me think through this but you want to be noticed but not distract from the core.

01:22:31.47

Rainer

Absolutely and you have to feel it with more people. It’s the other way they if they provoke and then they maybe then there’s a discussion and they are ah and then they they do more and more of this because they they become unsure and.

01:24:38.32

Lauren Conaway

Message.

01:23:08.13

Rainer

You know it’s it’s normally if if people criticize you and then you you fight back and so and it did become more and more and in in the end you are um, out outsider or someone people laugh at or so and so it’s ah it’s important that. Ah. Provocation on the one hand and to be authentic on the one hand it’s it’s very important but on the other hand um, you should. You should always ah have the ability or maybe you should have people in France and so will tell you who tell you to be honest, this was. Too much. Go go go go step ah bank. So.

01:26:27.80

Lauren Conaway

Know like Madonna Bear you know you talked about sex and religion a lot and it pissed off the pope maybe go do some volunteer work or something like that like you’ve got to dial it back. Okay, well so so I I love that and I do find this so fascinating. Um, I think that the the note that I kind of want to end on is is so in a conversation before we hit the record button here. We we were talking about Albert Einstein and we were talking about his hair. And so when you think ah in your head or at least when I think in my head of the image of an academic I always think of that person who is so tied up in their brilliant thoughts that they are too distracted to worry about things like tying their shoes or brushing their hair or.

01:25:37.51

Rainer

Oh.

01:28:05.80

Lauren Conaway

You know, buttoning their buttons right? because they just have so much brilliance popping around in their head that it’s just impossible to worry about the minutiae of everyday life and so so Albert Einstein who I we all know was a genius um, his hair was calculated um and I found that fast. It was a very calculated decision that he made I’m going to have crazy hair because when people think of this when people think of brilliance they don’t think of a guy who can brush his hair I don’t have time to brush my hair I’m too smart I’m thinking of too many big things and concepts and ideas right.

01:27:06.33

Rainer

Yes, absolutely they? they they make people think that that they don’t care about it. But it’s it’s it’s absolutely wrong and and this is something you mentioned it’s important when you want to turn yourself into a Brandt. It can help outwrought ah periods.

01:29:27.86

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:27:45.33

Rainer

You matter think about every prat has a trademark think of Coca-cola think of Mcdonald’s think of Apple think of Merquita spns for for example and if you want to turn yourself intoprint. You need to make sure you are instantly recognizable and distinctive and.

01:29:55.60

Lauren Conaway

And.

01:30:23.64

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:28:24.30

Rainer

And not only Albert Einstein but Donald Trump or carlagerel they couldn’t be more different but all of them turned their hair into their trademarks. Um yes Trump shiny gold hair or Einstein as you mentioned it hits his uncompmped white hair sticking all in all directions or.

01:30:42.90

Lauren Conaway

And yeah I have Stern.

01:31:07.98

Lauren Conaway

Riot.

01:29:03.70

Rainer

Lagahos powder that braid become their trademarks like schwarzneggers spiceceps and Kim Kadashian she made her butt to trade. No and so.

01:31:20.50

Lauren Conaway

Right? You know she that that girl puts a lot of energy into what her butt looks like and that is no accidents. But.

01:29:29.13

Rainer

Yes, and and so so you see sometimes and this is ah what what people should think about you can learn from marketing for products and if you see yourself in a way as ah as a product then ah then you.

01:32:03.22

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:30:05.97

Rainer

You can learn something from the laws of marketing and to to to have a to have a trademark is is not a mistake that because it will help that that people remind you and recognize you.

01:32:35.76

Lauren Conaway

Yeah, well you know in it and I will go I am gonna share a little bit of my personal journey here. But you know I represent an organization that champions inclusion and low barrier to entry and sometimes money and buying fancy clothes like that’s a barrier. And so I deliberately wear casual clothes when I’m out and about because it makes me more accessible. It makes me better able to talk to my members and the individuals that I serve. It’s a conscious choice that I make um you know in in I don’t know if this is the same in Germany but here here in. States we have this concept of startup suave quote unquote where you know startup people we we tend to dress casually and then when we get dressed up. You wear a graphic t-shirt jeans tennis shoes but you throw a blazer over it and like that’s the aesthetic. Yeah.

01:32:09.69

Rainer

Yes, right? like Mark Zuckerberg did or Steve jobsps I think they were the firsts one in silicon yes in Silicon Valley they they they did it not with suits or so or with th but.

01:34:30.96

Lauren Conaway

And it’s very much the aesthetic um it well you got is turn Steve Jobs had his black turtleneck like he wore that thing every day. so so yeah so so I think that the the takeaway here.

01:32:45.71

Rainer

Press.

01:35:06.20

Lauren Conaway

Um, if I’m hearing all of this correctly and the takeaway here is you know you’re gonna have to determine what works for you with your personal brand How you can be authentic share of yourself. But then also. Be cognizant of it. You know you can craft an image around who you are already are but the point is figure out how you’re gonna craft your image is that right.

01:33:48.13

Rainer

Absolutely And most important thing read my book because you will yes.

01:36:00.78

Lauren Conaway

I Yes, definitely and I mean when are you going to get to read a book by a doctor doctor a double doctor Actually, that’s what I’m gonna calling you now. Um.

01:34:11.70

Rainer

Yeah, now not not not not to copy all this people. This is not a good idea if you copy it. But of course you can learn from from them. You can get some ideas that okay he did it this way. Maybe I I tried this This is what I mentioned before it’s so important to experiment.

01:36:53.60

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:34:50.95

Rainer

But to experiment you need some ideas and you can get the ideas from people who were good on their field and and this was the reason why I have so many very very different ah people you know the the subtitle of the book is Genius of self-marketing from.

01:37:07.70

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:35:26.91

Rainer

Albert Einstein to Kim Kadashian and a lot of people thought it’s crazy. How can you mention both in in 1 sentence they are so different of course I I know this but this was this was no accident but it was purpose because I want to shock a little bit people that make them think.

01:37:48.42

Lauren Conaway

There’s definitely.

01:37:55.20

Lauren Conaway

Yes.

01:36:01.19

Rainer

They are different but they have 1 thing in common and I look always if you want to learn in a field. You should always look for the people who are most successful if you want to be a billionaire. You should you you you would look don’t look how someone who’s out of work or is in social welfare and. And look how he behaves but you would you would look for for people who made a lot of money self-made people and if you want to be famous. You will look to people who became ah famous and so I think and not to copy them I have to repeat it. But.

01:38:57.66

Lauren Conaway

Strength.

01:37:14.99

Rainer

Ah, to to get some ideas and start to think about yourself your your behavior and to to try some of these things.

01:39:34.18

Lauren Conaway

Yeah, well I love that and I think folks one of the most impactful things you can do for your your brand and your image is to go out find how people become famous geniuses of self-markting from Albert Einstein to Kim Kardashian definitely check it out. You can go to our a inerdashz ITELMANNDotCom and so so I have one really quick question. This is a really quick question because we’re actually running over time but this was a fascinating conversation. What is your personal brand.

01:38:44.23

Rainer

My personal friend. Yes, this is um, my I have a lot of things first with an auto experience for appearance people don’t see me now. Yes, but I think I look different than other people who are. Now I I soon will become 65 years old and I look under equivalent for example here with my you you can see you can tell people with my eyes.

01:41:31.82

Lauren Conaway

5 ive fifth yeah, you got I will back up there as a little There’s a baseball right there on that bicep and.

01:39:46.99

Rainer

Well, that’s that’s really hear the by strap and and you mentioned this two Ph D It’s a little bit fun. Some people say it’s crazy why he says I was doctor doctor but it’s a little bit fun and I think this is also important a little bit. Ah, kind of irony and and sometimes this is a part of my trademark as well when I speak to students or when I was invited in to a Tv show and there were a lot of anti-capitalists I came with my I t-shirt and the t-shirt is I Love capitalist.

01:43:03.92

Lauren Conaway

Who So if the guy.

01:41:02.77

Rainer

And people recognize. Ah this is the guy with this I Love Capitalism who said with the smart and and they recognize me and they accept me even if they don’t think my way but but they say okay, he’s someone who you know there are some people who are procapitalists that I know Maybe. Capitalism is not the best and but but in some way it’s good. Yes I stand by math you can respect this and and I tell you something in the end. This is even the secret to be.

01:43:49.52

Lauren Conaway

You stand by your you stand by your ideals. You don’t go back and forth. You’re not wishywashy and people respect that for sure.

01:42:19.99

Rainer

Ah, to to get attractction from from girls or from women because I know most girls and most women they don’t like it if they are someone who hides so much So only make always compliment and agree with everything because they see it as a sign that you are weak. Yes, and.

01:44:58.76

Lauren Conaway

Or you’re you’re pandering to them or condescending to them by not saying what you really think first and ah.

01:42:57.10

Rainer

Most women.

01:43:04.45

Rainer

Yes, yes, and and absolutely and this is a sign they they think all, it’s someone who’s who’s weak and maybe I can’t trust because he he hides. So so so many things and this is also secret be authentic I to tell you.

01:45:35.30

Lauren Conaway

Yeah.

01:43:42.41

Rainer

All over my life I had always very you know pretty girls and people wonder that. Okay today they say he has a lot of money and so okay, that’s the reason. But even when I was shooted and I had no money I had the prettiest girl in in the town I had no money and I don’t look so so. Crazy that people think oh it’s because he looks so handsome. No, it’s it’s only because of being authentic this is this is ah a secret everywhere.

01:46:32.80

Lauren Conaway

Yeah, so your your brand is your brand is fit innovative entrepreneurial lady Killer That’s that’s what I’m going with that’s your brands there you go um folks I can well.

01:44:50.53

Rainer

Ah.

01:47:08.66

Lauren Conaway

Doctor I just want to say doctor doctor one more time because I find it really fun and I’m probably not going to get to do it for a minute but Dr Doctor thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us here today on startup puzzle this is this is a really fun conversation.

01:45:28.95

Rainer

Thank you, Thank you very much I appreciate it.

01:47:40.34

Lauren Conaway

Absolutely and and I would definitely direct you to to keep an eye out for how people become famous geniuses of self-marketing from Albert Einstein to Kim Kardashian as you can as you have heard. There are a lot of really good stories in there would also. Encourage you to check out gusto now is certainly the time today’s episode of startup hustle was sponsored by gusto and if you’re looking for an all in one Hr platform that just makes it so easy and convenient to manage your hr definitely check it out. Everything you need just a few clicks of a button and for startup hustle listeners. You get 3 months free when you go to http://gusto.com backslash startupussle that is http://gusto.comback/startup hustle friends I also invite you to check out our Youtube channel startup hustle. Tv is alive and in action and on it myself and the other startup hustle hosts and some friends we tell the real stories of entrepreneurship. We would love to have you take a look here are stories I tend to cuss a lot but don’t judge entrepreneurship is hard. All right folks. Thank you so much for for taking the time out of your busy schedules to listen to us and we will catch you on the flip side.

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