Ep. #1182 - Improving Your Amazon SEO Strategy
Today’s episode of Startup Hustle features Andrew Morgans and Eddie Wheeler, Founder of Guava Listings. Listen to these Amazon and SEO experts discuss improving your Amazon SEO strategy and the importance of long-term SEO strategies. Additionally, Andrew and Eddie talk about being a big fish in a small pond and why you need to grind.
Covered In This Episode
Making it on Amazon almost guarantees success for an e-commerce business. However, it takes a lot of work. Guava Listings can help you achieve that by improving your Amazon SEO strategy.
Andrew Morgans and Eddie Wheeler compare their experiences abroad and becoming a full-service agency. Eddie recounts building Guava Listings in Vietnam and moving to Mexico City. They discuss the importance of Seller Central and long-term SEO strategies to become a big fish in a small pond.
Andrew and Eddie agree on what brands are doing wrong with their SEOs and the need to focus on the basics. Find out about Guava Listing’s SEO masterclass and what Eddie plans for its future.
All journeys begin with the first step. Take yours by tuning in to this Startup Hustle episode now.
- Eddie’s backstory (1:50)
- Starting as a freelancer to building Guava Listings in Vietnam (5:14)
- Moving from Vietnam to Mexico City (11:05)
- The importance of SEO (13:28)
- Ongoing and long-term SEO strategies (18:23)
- Be a big fish in a small pond (26:54)
- Becoming a full-service agency and the importance of Seller Central (30:34)
- What brands are doing wrong with their SEOs (33:26)
- Focus on the basics (35:11)
- Guava Listing’s SEO masterclass and its future (35:56)
- What Eddie is excited about (38:38)
- Where to follow and contact Eddie (40:50)
I think there’s not enough focus, like, as a whole, on ongoing/long-term SEO, really understanding what a holistic plan looks like. And really, it’s not, you know, set and forget. You should be regularly doing keyword research and just tracking it and seeing how many keywords, what’s your organic keyword distribution, what’s the sponsor keyword distribution, and what’s the total. And keeping track of that because it’s really important for your traffic, and it works hand in hand with PPC.– Eddie Wheeler
I think one thing about Amazon and being successful in Amazon and buying into what is Amazon…is getting a little taste of success with some of your changes. It’s about getting little bits of goals, like starting out at a beginner level before you just go try to download the game and play expert level.– Andrew Morgans
Yeah, focus on the basics, like, the little nuance things. Over time at scale, they really do matter.– Andrew Morgans
It’s always that, like, delayed gratification, whether it’s business or anything personal, right? You really gotta, like, grind for a while before you really start to see see the fruit.– Eddie Wheeler
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Following is an auto-generated text transcript of this episode. Apologies for any errors!
Andrew Morgans 00:00
Hey, what’s up Hustlers, welcome back. This is Andrew Morgans, founder of Marknology here as today’s host of Startup Hustle, covering all things E-com startups, Amazon industry, SEO, DTC, you name it. We’re covering everything that’s fun. And today we’re gonna be talking about improving your Amazon SEO strategy. We’re gonna just jump into ranking SEO, what it is, you know, how to prepare for it, how to optimize it. Before I introduce today’s guest, today’s episode of Startup Hustle is powered by FullScale,io. Hiring software developers is difficult, Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably and has the platform to help you manage that team. Visit FullScale.io to learn more. Today’s guest is another, is another Amazon industry owner and an expert, Eddie Wheeler out of Mexico City. Welcome to the show.
Eddie Wheeler 00:51
Hey, how’s it going?
Andrew Morgans 00:53
Good. Me and Eddie, were just getting to know each other a little bit before the show started. A lot of times the this Amazon industry, the space in general is small. Eddie’s been abroad for the last five, six years, and now he’s in Mexico City and traveling around. So hopefully we’ll get to see each other a little bit more conferences and things like that. I love having you on the show. I love bringing in other experts that are passionate about the same things as myself. So I’m excited to just get to know you a little bit and hopefully our Hustlers and our listeners get to know you as well.
Eddie Wheeler 01:27
Yep, sounds given.
Andrew Morgans 01:29
That’d be awesome. Well, I love getting to just start the show off getting to know Eddie a little bit. You know, how did you get into, you know, the Amazon issue where you are today, but back it up a little bit to just in general? Did you always know you’re going to be an entrepreneur? Did you always want to be in business? Where’s your story kind of begin?
Eddie Wheeler 01:50
Yeah, so you know, I guess my story probably begins. So right after college, I wanted to go to Vietnam to actually teach English. And, you know, just kind of wanted to I always knew I wanted to do something different, let’s say and like, kind of wanted to not have that nine to five. I did it for one year. And then I was like, No, I’m not doing this. So after that, you know, bought a one way ticket to Vietnam, got a job teaching English and well, that was good and definitely served its purpose. And you know, I did have some fun with that. I knew that’s not what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. Luckily, in Vietnam, you can teach, you know, 1520 25 hours a week, and still make your living costs and then and then some. So I had all this extra time during the week, I worked for a startup and oh Chi Minh City for a little bit unrelated to e commerce, and then eventually got to, you know, researching how, you know, just researching different business models where I found Amazon FBA tried my own product and totally failed. Because I was smoking.
Andrew Morgans 02:56
Well, what was that first product and what year was that?
Eddie Wheeler 02:58
It was in 2019. And it was like artificial palm leafs like to decorate like your house or apartment. You know, like it was fine. Like all the keyword data made sense. And you know, a lot of the numbers made sense, but I didn’t want anything that was different. And I didn’t know what I was doing. I had no like, real concept of understanding how to like manage cashflow. You know how to do PPC, all these things like yeah, I’ve always had, like kind of a marketing mind. So I think my listing was actually pretty decent. But yeah, it was, you know, just a big learning lesson. And, you know, in the end of the day, I was a broke English teacher. So I didn’t really have that much capital to be working with. I did launch a second product, which did, you know, I ultimately discontinued it, but it did make money. But during that time, because I was kind of getting pretty desperate to get away from English teaching, just kind of getting burnt out with it. And I was like, well, you know, now I’ve learned all this Amazon SEO stuff. And you know, I’ve always been a good writer, why don’t I offer freelance SEO, Amazon SEO copywriting services, and then that really just, you know, stuck really well. It came really natural to me. And you know, after a year or so year and a half of doing that, I had so many clients that I said, let me just focus on this for the next few years. I’m going to start an agency start offering graphic design now like photography through a partner studio, so we can you know, we do everything when it comes to like listing optimization for click through rate conversion rate. And then of course, you know, the all important SEO stuff.
Andrew Morgans 04:39
Awesome. Talk to me, just about I guess being in Vietnam and building building a business there where you’re surrounded by other guys like, let’s say entrepreneurs, freelancers like kind of doing the Amazon FBA thing was there a community like how did you first start out okay, now I know I’m or I did pretty good with my SEO. I’ve been teaching English probably like sharpening your skills at least a couple of years. Like, you know, anytime you’re teaching something, I think you’re like learning it. And then again, like a whole nother way. And then like, how are you getting business? I guess in those early days? I’m just curious.
Eddie Wheeler 05:14
Yeah. So yeah, there’s definitely like out in Southeast Asia, there’s like a huge community of people that are, whether they’re freelancing, whether they have an online business, so you know, digital nomads, if, you know, I don’t really love the term, but, you know, it’s an easy way to describe it. So, yeah, there’s a great community out, you know, people doing that. And so for a while, right, I was teaching English and freelancing. Eventually, the freelancing provided enough income where I was able to stop teaching, but then, yeah, just surrounded by other like minded folks is always good in terms of why. I definitely met some people that were specifically doing Amazon FBA, in terms of getting work, it was a lot through Upwork at first and I still do a decent amount of, you know, I still get a decent amount of clients on Upwork. And I really just like studied Upwork and how to like do well with that and kind of like not hack the algorithm but, like, you know, make the algorithm like you and show, you know, show you for more things and stuff. So, so I got really good at Upwork and then also content posts for Amazon Seller Facebook group. Some people listening might remember back in the day that, you know, the Helium 10 members group, Amazon FBA tight, and just to name a few, I had a lot of like copywriting posts, and then that’s really when I started to kind of blow up and like I was getting so many clients that, you know, I couldn’t handle myself. So I was, like, okay, now, now is the time for for the agency.
Andrew Morgans 06:47
Awesome. Where you were, you’re scaling with, like, I guess employees in Southeast Asia? Or, you know, was it things like back home or
Eddie Wheeler 06:58
Other other digital nomads, other like people, other foreigners that I met out there.Because I think with copywriting, especially, right, because that was such a major focus, and it still is a major focus of my business, right? But I really haven’t like come across too many, like, copywriters that are non-native English speakers that can really, you know, because there’s just like, word choices are often you know, certain things. There are some, but it’s harder to find for sure. So I always kind of went with, with native speaking. So like other foreigners that I met out in Southeast Asia. However, some of the other work, like, the admin work, you know, now I do a lot of cold outreach, I’m able to outsource that to VAs in the Philippines and stuff.
Andrew Morgans 07:42
Super cool. Just curious, because some of our journeys a little bit the same. And I just have yet to meet someone that started the agency while and in Southeast Asia and like kind of how that came to be. I’m just curious, I haven’t been to Vietnam. I’ve been to Thailand, and my roommate and someone I own a couple of businesses with is Korean. Um, and he like lived in Seoul for 11 years. And so he’s been all over Southeast Asia. And just kind of wondering what the, you know, the environment is like out there for I know, I know, there’s a lot of digital nomads, but just Amazon FBA, I guess, like, you know, in general, what that what that’s like?
Eddie Wheeler 08:19
There’s definitely I did come across. And actually, I did get a few clients that way, just like, you know, working in cafes, or co working spaces, just starting conversations. Oh, you do Amazon? Oh, cool. Like, you know, I do SEO and listing optimization. So I was able to get, yeah, to clients, I love that.
Andrew Morgans 08:35
I don’t think you know this about me, but I actually got my start on Upwork as well. It was probably 2000. For me, though, 2014 there was no one doing Amazon on Upwork. And I was like reading these blogs going through a bad breakup, trying to figure out ways to make some money. I was an ecommerce manager by day. And there was like, I’d get on Upwork there’s Elance and Freelancer.com, and a couple others, and I was just like, you know, I’d post 30, 40 job applications a weekend, you know, on there. And Upwork went and bought Elance, right, and maybe another one or two. And when they did, it could just combined all my reviews from all those other platforms that they acquired and added them to my Upwork profile. So like, kind of overnight, I just like jumps in the ratings a lot, you know, and soon I found myself in like the top 10 of digital marketing. The only guy doing Amazon, you know, I was USA-based at the time. So there just wasn’t other Amazon guys or girls in there, you know, so it was like kind of by default. Not that not that I wasn’t doing good work just like it was you know, you know how it is. And yeah, so Upwork like brought me into my first couple of clients and you know, I got enough of them going kind of on a monthly retainer kind of thing where I was just helping them out for a low ticket price at that time. And you know, left my left my day job and went all in on what I was doing to. So it’s kind of cool to have that in common. And I still get on Upwork just every every now and then just to keep the profile fresh, you know, keep a keep a couple jobs on there. I as the owner, I’ll still do a couple of myself maybe on up work off the books. Just to just to keep my hands in there a little bit, you know, just to stay fresh. It’s it’s a really cool platform. I’ve, I’ve met a writer off of there in the last couple of months, that’s helping me put some case studies together, and some things like that, that I’ve just struggled to, just to get done to get them out of my head and onto paper. And so no, I absolutely love the platform. And and for anyone that’s listening, it doesn’t know it’s just a great place to find either work for yourself or just starting resources are fine. You know, great people. It’s not always someone in the Philippines or Vietnam, or you can find, you know, this guy is from Austin, Texas, you know, so down the street, I guess a little bit for me. Super cool. Okay, so you left, you left teaching, you go all in on the agency? And for every one listing, that’s that’s Guava Listings, is that correct?
Eddie Wheeler 08:37
Yes. Guava Listings?
Andrew Morgans 09:13
Cool, Guava Listings. I know, now you’re in Mexico City. And they’re doing there’s actually like a lot of people. In my circle, I got some names on an industry that are really pushing into Latin America, for conferences for sourcing, kind of just all the things that happened in Asia earlier are now just starting to take place in, in Latin America. So I think you’re there at a great time. In regards to the Amazon industry, when did you go from, I guess, Vietnam and Bali and make the move to come to North America?
Eddie Wheeler 11:39
Yeah. So I left. I never actually lived in Bali. But I was in Thailand for a year. Of course, like visiting North America, you know, every now and then. I think like in the five years, I was out there actually just visited home twice. But yeah, I think let’s say I moved here. I was actually in Hawaii for a few months. Africa, home, after Thailand’s. Yeah, just like kind of crazy. Yeah, kind of. So I was out there for just just a few months. And then yeah, I came here in October. So it’s been eight months now in Mexico City.
Andrew Morgans 12:18
That’s cool. I’ve shared some stuff on the show. But one of my right hands at Marknology. And sales and partnerships is there in Mexico City. And it’s very helpful for me in the Midwest, I can only do so many things like having somebody there when the industry is really kind of coming to life. It feels like it’s an infancy stage. And for anyone listening, like a lot of our team is in Central South America. So you know, absolutely cool. I want to talk more about, I guess, SEO and kind of what came of the agency and kind of move into that. So you, you’re relocated to Mexico City still running the team? What’s your guys’s focus, I guess, as an SEO agency, as things start to change with AI, and you know, there’s a lot of different interpretations around what SEO is. Yeah, I remember, in the early days, I was trying to push Amazon SEO because I was just tracking the keyword rankings and organic ranking had a bigger play before paid search. But everyone just had giveaways at the time, and no one’s really caring about SEO, and now it’s come full circle. And SEO is you know, very, very important. Yeah, what’s your take on that?
Eddie Wheeler 13:28
Yeah, no, absolutely is. And, you know, I think like, there’s, you know, I think there’s a lot of focus, right, like whether, you know, it’s materials, you know, videos on YouTube, or, you know, all these courses that are out there, or whatever it might be. I think there’s a lot of focus on like, when you’re going to launch like that foundational SEO. And there’s plenty of, you know, different ways to do that keyword research. I think there’s not enough focus, like, as a whole, on ongoing slash long-term SEO. And once I noticed that, like, that’s kind of when I went on my own journey actually, really, really, like deep in the last, like, six months, 12, you know, six to 12 months or so, of like, really understanding what you know, a holistic plan looks like. And really, right, it’s not, you know, it’s not set and forget, it’s you should be regularly doing keyword research, or you or someone on your team should be doing, you know, regularly doing keyword research updates, and, you know, just tracking it and seeing, you know, how many keywords, you know, you know, what’s your organic keyword distribution, what’s the sponsor keyword distribution, what’s the total? Right, and, you know, just kind of keeping track of that because it’s really important for your traffic and, you know, it works, you know, hand in hand with PPC, you know, that, you know, they they can feed into each other and work with each other. But so many people, you know, a lot of people Yeah, like, let’s double down on PPC. But if you’re not doing that the corresponding SEO work every month, two months, you know, it depends, right? You don’t want to change it too much. But But looking at it every one, two or three months, depending on where it is in the lifecycle, to, you know, see what needs to be done, see what keywords you’re now kind of competitive for, and you know, things that you can actually do with just keywords that can help you boost up in rank. So
Andrew Morgans 15:20
Huge opportunity, and one that really doesn’t cost you, you know, to go out there and get content, new images may new video made, you know, the costs can be a lot. But something you can do is tweaking your keywords and your SEO over time, I’ll lay out a quick strategy. And I want to hear more about this long-term strategy in regards to Amazon, I know long-term on a website, you can continue to do, you know, backlinks and write articles and blogs and all that kind of stuff. On Amazon, we have to approach it a little bit differently, right, in regards to long term. For me, the team does a little bit differently now. So bear with me, you know, I’ve been out of some of the weeds. Yeah, for a while, but my approach was always, let’s take it under context for anyone listening, like, you have your writing keyword or you’re writing a listing. And on Amazon, you’re doing research that says, okay, these 100 keywords are all kind of relevant to buy a product. From the 100 keywords, I might try to pick a top, you know, 30, okay, from PPC, or from putting them in the listing, I want them to be there. So I’ve got 30, I’m going to pick out the best 15. That’d be my approach, some products might have four keywords, like it just depends on the product. Some might have 200, right, that irrelevant, and have that a lot of times, especially if I’m launching a product that has no brand awareness, no one knows about it, no one’s like typing in Hershey’s, you know. This is a brand new food brand, something no one’s looked about. So you’re looking for instead chocolate chips, where it’s not branded, it’s a generic term. I would do this kind of 555 rule, which would be like five keywords at the bottom that might be like 1500 searches a month or something pretty attainable for a product. Then like five that are in maybe the five to 10,000 keyword searches a month. And then five at the top that are like, you know, pre workout, for example, would be one that’s like really hard to compete with, as a new product, you’re not going to rank there. Yeah. And the goal would be, let’s get these bottom five to rank, where, because there’s not a lot of competition on them. They’re lower search volume, people aren’t going at them as hard, we can actually get our new products to start doing well and ranking for them. And then as they got stronger, you would come back to it, you know, maybe you’re swapping some out because none of them are ranking at all, there’s some nuance to it. But let’s say you come back to it two or three months later. You’re checking them, your keywords are ranking, great. Now, let’s be more aggressive, and potentially switching out those medium high-end ones or low ones, for some medium ones. Now that we’ve got some traffic going, and let’s get a little bit more aggressive, and then a little bit more aggressive, and then a little bit more aggressive. And that’s what I would kind of think of as long-term where you’re not just setting it and forgetting it, you’re kind of coming in with a strategy of let’s give us a chance of success from low, medium, high. And then let’s evaluate on success over time. And switch out what we can even, you know, switching out one or two keywords that get results can be the difference in, you know, quite a bit of sales. So people just don’t want to spend money on this. They don’t want to think about this. So they want to set it and forget it move on to the next thing on the checklist. Talk to me about you know what long-term strategy looks like for you guys. And you know, over the last six, eight months, you’ve been focused on it and really diving into that. What does that look like practically?
Eddie Wheeler 18:23
Yeah, so I mean, I think like your like general, like description, there definitely is like a really good, like, generalized like version of what you’re trying to do with your ongoing and long term strategy. Like in terms of like, specific tactics, right, like, you know, I’ve kind of like, you know, you’ll see, like, if you go to my website, you’ll see, like, we talked about three different SEO levels. Hopefully, a fourth one will be coming soon. I’m still trying to tinker with it. But essentially, right, you’re looking at, you know, in your first like, four to six weeks, right, that’s, you know, like you talked about, like, you know, and typically, you know, we’re going to, you know, if we’re writing a listing or just like helping someone that has still hasn’t kind of like broken out of this SEO Level One is you’re gonna have keywords that yes, there might be some that are a bit more niche, right, some medium some, some higher, because a lot of times those higher ones, like, like are part of the longer ones anyway, like your pre workout might have 30,000 search volume, but like pre workout for, you know, whatever it might, you know, pre workout for gym is going to be less right because it’s so typically you’re going to be getting these higher volume ones in any way by using these, these ones and just making sure that every single space is totally maxed out, right? That’s so you know, having, you know, four to seven in your title, four to seven keyword phrases in your title, you know, counting for like two and ones and three and ones of course, right having 10 to 15 keywords phrases, your bullet points, a bunch, but much more in your product description, every all the, like 100 characters of each A-plus content alt text, right, you know, making and then leaving your A plus content in plain text right in our formula Guava Listings, we do use plain text modules, right, because they do have SEO value. So a balance between like the big banners for like conversion and then also some plain text for so just making sure that there’s you know, wherever you can have a keyword phrase without like completely keyword stuffing it right, because obviously, you don’t want to want to do that either. But any opportunity, you have to get a keyword phrase, and you do that. And also in your back end search terms, having individual keywords, right, like if I, you know, if I was selling these pair of sunglasses, right, you’ll have sun, glasses, sunglasses pair, right, all those things are most likely in your title your bullet points already, but in the first four to six weeks, it’s good to have them in that backend search, search term slot, because you’re going to index faster for all of those those like vital keywords. So once you have in which you can check on Helium 10 very easily once you have an organic keyword distribution of 200. Then you move on to SEO level two. Okay, so SEO level two now, that is all about kind of expanding that organic keyword distribution number expanding what keywords that you are indexing for. So maybe sunglasses isn’t the best example for this, because there’s only so many keywords, but um, maybe let’s go with water bottle, right. So before you probably had water, bottle blue, whatever it might be, you know, but now 20 rounds, yeah, everything, like everything that this needs to like your most important keywords are all going to be in your back end search terms now. And you can play with some of the keywords in your title and bullets too. But usually, at least in the first run of this SEO level to tactics, right, you’re just going to turn change your back end search terms to index for more have larger organic keyword distribution. So maybe you didn’t you didn’t have the word container in your, your title bolt bullets, right. But it could be somebody could type in water bottle container, right? For sure. You don’t have Spanish and your front end it, you know, 99.9% of the cases. Right. So whatever, you know, I’m in Mexico, I should probably know, but like, so like agua right, you have might have agua in your, in your back end search terms misspellings. And just other words that like, you know, they don’t have to necessarily always be the most hyper relevant. But you know, things that make sense, maybe like hikes, maybe you put because somebody might put in water bottle for hikes. So you put, you know, it’s not important enough for maybe your title your bullets, but you can put it in your back end. And so over time, right, you know, it’s usually you’ll need like a few runs of this, like, you know, set it said the new search terms, give it a month, right? At that point, you might start tinkering with some of the bullet point keywords as well, just depending on a few things, but the point is getting in again, check in and Helium 10, an organic keyword distribution of 800 or more, then the real fun starts because then once whenever we have we’ve tested it below 800. Right, and we and after eight and it has a whatever for whatever reason, I don’t know why. Right, it tends to work, when you have an organic keyword distribution of 800. Plus, then you can identify keywords that are currently ranked 20 through 50 that are valuable, right. So you know, probably some, especially if you just launch, right, so probably some of these more like medium to high keywords that you’re not quite ranking for your on page bottom part and page one or on page two. And then by you know, targeting these, you know, you make your list, you know, can’t target all of them, obviously, but you know, you can pick 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 of them depending and then actually get them into your listing multiple times. Right. So this is this is where a lot of people like say like, you know, you don’t want to have like repeating duplications, right. But actually, at this phase of SEO, it can actually help boost you to rank one through 19. And really, hopefully the top 10, right. Definitely, you know, and of course, you know, there’s a caveat, of course, like this isn’t like 100% success rate, but it’s just one because there’s a lot of factors to ranking, of course, right. But this is one tool in your arsenal that you can use to kind of help boost rank and, you know, after a month or so, you know, we’ve had a lot of clients get a lot of great results. You know, the one that I always talk about is like we have these eight keywords or, I think, seven because the one didn’t actually it didn’t work but we had seven with a total of 28,000 search volume move from rank 20 to 50 to three through seven. So in just one month, and we didn’t change anything else, like they didn’t, you know, of course, you’re still you need to be running PPC and all the normal things. But the only change that we made was repeating these keywords, you know, having, of course, you can’t fit all four to eight in the title most of the cases, and you don’t want to replace anything that’s already highly ranked, of course, but by repeating these keywords in the title, in the product description, and the A-plus content plain text, in the A-plus content alt text, right. There’s this effect, where in 70, plus percent of cases, you’re going to see a rank rank boosts. And so and then, like, given over time, right, and now like, you know, because now we slingshotted them up there with that, and then you know, because when you’re ranked 20, through 50, you’re not really making sales, like from that from that keyword. And now all of a sudden, you know, but with your three through seven, you know, of course, being one, you’re going to get the most but three through seven, you’re going to get some and then, you know, as long as you have an optimized listing for conversion for click through rate and conversion, Amazon is going to see, okay, well, this, this queue, this product is getting sales for this keyword, let’s keep them up there. Let’s push them even further. So not not all of the not all of those keywords stayed in that, but like most of them did. And most of them even improved. Some of them are number one. And it really all stemmed from that that slingshot effect of repeating these keyword phrases, and you can keep repeatedly doing this, right? So maybe in the beginning, you’re changing and more often. In SEO level three, I’m experimenting with doing it every 60 days, but so far, we’ve been doing it every 90 days. And because now you know there’s going to be more keywords that you’re ranked 20-50 or, or maybe it could be a maintenance thing, sometimes some fall off, right. So then like let’s get them back up, right by, by, by optimizing listing and getting these keywords in repeatedly.
Andrew Morgans 26:54
I love it. That was like brilliant. And I think very similar to what I’m suggesting maybe more generically speaking, but where you’re, you’re just AB testing, you’re trying to switch out, you’re testing the rank, you’re seeing what results you’re getting, you’re like, look, we went right after pre workout, or water bottle and we got nowhere. And well, why keep water bottle right there. If it’s if it’s something, it’s going to take you a while to go, go down the line, find something more longer tail that’s going to help you, you know, start getting some sales or start getting some traction on, build on that traction. And then, you know, as you as you grow, okay, now I’m gonna go take that fight. You know, it’s like pick on someone your own size, I guess kind of thing. When you’re coming out with a new product or new listing? Pick on someone your own size, do well there. Yeah, before you go, you know, I guess I would a better metaphor might be, you know, better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a big pond, right. So like, if you can’t win in your own area, you can’t you can’t win in your own, like, let’s say 22 ounce blue water bottle with Google lettering. You gotta you got that’s describing it exactly, right. If you can’t win there, then what are you trying to do? You know, and so thinking about that, you’re gonna have a lot more success. And I think one thing about Amazon and being successful in Amazon and buying into what is the Amazon, you know, the whole game that is buying into that is getting a little taste of success with some of your changes, if you’re, like, if you just launch on Amazon, you’re not getting anything going, you’re gonna get burnout, you’re gonna quit, it’s just gonna be a lost investment. But it’s about getting little bits of goals, like, you know, start out at a beginner level before you just go try to download the game and play play expert level, you know. So I 100% believe in those different levels. We talked. So did we talk about level three and potentially level four.
Eddie Wheeler 28:41
So that is level that was level three like that once or the 60 day never repeating of the keyword phrases, right? You don’t really want to do that until you’ve hit past that 800 Organic keyword distribution level. If you haven’t super duper nice product, like maybe it could, it does sometimes work because there’s no competition there. So yeah, just like something with the algorithm like with, I’ve got I don’t really fully understand why it works. Once you hit that 800 keyword distribution, why you can then do the rank boosting thing of SEO, level three, but it does, again, one factor in it, of course, it’s not a 100% guarantee, and not all the words are necessarily going to be boosted, but you can get some really good results with it. So and especially if you have an older product with a lot of sales history, that’s where we’re seeing like the best effects so yeah. And as your level four would pretty much so it’s it’s working with like the PPC campaigns as well. So like, you know, looking at like what’s converting the most and the PPC and like okay, maybe if that’s not in the title, like maybe put that in the title first, right? Because then it’s like so it’s like working with PPC and then also like the the search query reports. So like literally using Amazon’s data so far like, you know, just been pretty much using helium 10. But since I’ve actually been offering, like, not just listing optimization, we’ll redo like the whole, you know, copywriting, graphic design, I’ll just go in now and we’ll just like we’re offering an SEO subscription. We’re we’re doing all that SEO work. And now that, like, I’m getting access to more of my, you know, clients, Seller Central’s and stuff, like, you know, that’s where I’m going to, like, develop this, this other, these other tactful picture. So yeah, so more to come. Like that’s, you know, that’s a basic, you know, overview of it.
Andrew Morgans 30:34
I love it. And I think it’s brilliant, and it’s, um, you know, it’s definitely what I would be preaching here. I have been doing this 12 years. And what I can tell you is I became a full-service agency, because as I just started getting more access to the brands and the business, like you just realize that everything is touching everything, you know, like to be a PPC agency and not be able to ensure that they have good content on the listing pages is was was frustrating for me, you know, they don’t have good copy how you’re going to use automatic ads on Amazon, if they don’t have good copy, it’s pulling from the listing pulling from the copy that’s in the listing, yeah, you don’t have good images to help you convert, you know, your your ads are going to a page that’s not built to convert, they want you to get organic ranking, there’s no keywords in the listing. How are you going to get there? Knowing that, you know, PPC exact match, could could coincide along with your SEO, and you can be pushing PPC exact match to help those keywords rank a little bit faster. Just little examples of ways I like working together.
Eddie Wheeler 31:36
And that’s, you know, you know, I don’t offer, you know, PPC or a lot of the other full service, but I, you know, I have like a partner, you know, PPC agency that like, you know, I’m we’re kind of like working on ways to, you know, make the PPC and SEO. Again, like bounce off each other because they should be right, but just like trying to, like tinker with and find the best combinations or the best, you know, methods
Andrew Morgans 32:00
How to communicate that, yeah, a lot of times a sale, a copywriter and a PPC data analysts are not the same brain. It’s just a different, different way of looking at math and numbers and stuff like that, you know, so I completely agree. And you know, as an agency, we do it all. But we also work with tons of teams that have split teams, and you know, so we’re trying to figure out how to communicate these ideas, you know, across teams and stuff like that. But I love that you’re kind of piecing it all in together and figuring out, you know, what drives what, because it’s absolutely how Amazon is scoring it is is, you know, if you were sending in 1000 visitors through PPC on a keyword that doesn’t convert, that’s going to hurt you. It’s not just going to show you, it’s not just going to take your money and show you increase sessions, it’s going to hurt your listing because Amazon saying 1000 people came here, and none of them bought. Yep. You know, we want to go the opposite direction with this listing. I have a couple of questions for you. Before I do shout out again to our sponsor, FullScale.io. Finding expert software developers doesn’t have to be difficult, especially when you visit FullScale.io where you can build a software team quickly and affordably. Use the Full Scale platform to define your technical needs. And then see what available developers testers and leaders are ready to join your team. Visit FullDcale.io to learn more. All right, I got a question for you, Eddie. Talk to me about what you think. Just as an example, what what scaling brands or brands that are building some of the things you see them doing wrong with their SEO?
Eddie Wheeler 33:26
Yeah, I mean, one of the big biggest things I think, is just like not doing anything with SEO. Like, I’ve worked, you know, with seven and eight figure your brands that really, you know, weren’t doing anything. And it’s just like, it’s, it’s such a low hanging fruit. So, I think like, you know, when you especially when you when you start to get bigger, right. You know, certain things tend to get like swept under the rug, like maybe like you’re not filling out your A-plus content alt text to all 100 character, you know, 90-100 characters, right? Because, like, Oh, you got to do that for 13 to 19, whatever it is, like slots of, you know, like, whatever, but like actually, like that can help, especially in the later SEO level, right? Unless SEO level three. So just like you know, making sure like that little things like in the search terms, in the back end search terms, right? You don’t need anything like in the backend search terms, like, if you have like bottle you don’t need to put bottles right Amazon, you know, you can have bottles and you know, water but you know, in the keyword phrases in your bullets, your titles, of course, like interchanging, but in your back end search terms, you don’t need a plural when you already have the singular and vice versa. So you know, just like you know, and then because then that gets you more space, right? That gets you a whole other keyword that you can be like indexing and then eventually ranking for. So it’s just like any anything you can do just maximize your space, you know, take the time. Yes, it takes time. Uh, but, you know, do it because it’s, you know, it’s one of the lowest hanging fruits and, you know, it can mean, you know, that many more sales over time, right? So,
Andrew Morgans 35:11
Yeah, focus on the basics, like the little nuance things. Over time at scale, they really do matter. I 100% agree. And something that my own team, we got to constantly come back to it and be like, guys, like, you know, we can be doing amazing things, working with massive brands, big brands, doing some beautiful projects, and find ourselves missing some of the nuance of the basics. Like, just make sure you’re covering all your gaps, maximizing that’s what I love about Amazon, so many proactive things you can do. Yeah, to win. So, you know, while Guava Listings is relatively young, you know, a couple years old, talk to me about, like, what your clients or your partners can look forward to coming from you guys. I know that you have like an SEO masterclass. Talk about that. Yeah.
Eddie Wheeler 35:55
Yeah, I have a free, like, Amazon SEO masterclass, where it just gives you detailed. Way more details of what we discussed about the SEO levels. Detailed of written SOPs and training videos and everything like that. Again, it doesn’t go over every single nuance that could possibly happen and need to vote levels, but it gives you gives you the basics, and you can definitely take that and, and run with it and definitely get some results from that. And yeah, like I said, I’m just, like, you know, I’m, I’m constantly learning myself. And so therefore, like, you know, whether that’s SEO level 4, 5, 6, 7, 100, you know, like, it’s, you know, I’ll constantly be, you know, and because it is constantly changing, right? You know, there could be a year later, Amazon can change the way it does things, you know, the ranking algorithm does things, and then everything that I’ve just done could be obsolete, right. So like, you know, hopefully, it’s not too too far off, but like, you know, I have to be continually like testing these things and keeping a pulse on that. So yeah, that’s, you know, so, you know, the SEO subscription. I am also launching, like, a coaching program. So like, I kind of, like do it with you approach to, you know, SEO, and then also like listing optimization, right? Where we go through and, like, you know, step by step, like, okay, like, is this main image the best that it could be? Right? Because like, you know, you can increase your, by better main image, you can increase your click 2, 3, 4, 5x. Right. So broadly, so you know, stuff like, you know, just going piece by piece. So, got a got a deal with you program. That’s, yeah, I mean, I guess I could say it’s launched, I haven’t had like a grand, I haven’t marketed it too much. But so yeah, that kind of that kind of, you know, that kind of stuff. And then always our core, you know, listing optimization, getting the right copywriting and graphic design. So that, you know, once someone, once all your SEO work has paid off, and your click through rate work has paid off, that, of course, that you convert at a high level.
Andrew Morgans 38:00
I love it. This has been awesome. Edie, I know it won’t be the last time we connect. I want to I want to leave you with two questions that are one being something you’re working on working on that you’re excited about in the business or professionally, I know you’ve moved and you’re moving again. So you know anything to that. And then what are you working on personally in your life? You know, throughout the end of the year can be fitness, could be travel goals, you know, something that’s less business focus, I guess you’re excited on? And then lastly, where can people contact you follow your journey? Email, website, LinkedIn. Yeah,
Eddie Wheeler 38:38
Yeah. So yeah, I so yeah, I think the coaching program, I think, is what I’m most excited about. Because it kind of goes back to, you know, me teaching English in Vietnam. You know, even though like teaching English to five year olds wasn’t, you know, something I got burnt out on. You know, I do like teaching. So I do, like, see that as like a big avenue. And I’m not really aware of too many people that are, like, specifically like teaching, like, SEO, you know, Amazon SEO and, and listing optimization. So I think like working someone step by step, and, you know, eventually seeing the result of an optimized listing that’s, you know, I didn’t necessarily write but I coached and you know, so helping them, you know, teaching them how to fish as opposed to fishing for them. So, definitely excited about that project. You know, overall. In terms of personal life yeah, like, moving to moving to Colombia. So it’ll be you know, a new, new place, a new, new journey. And so definitely excited about that. And yeah, I have been really focusing on on my fitness these last, last few months. I’m starting to see some some really good results, you know, so it’s, it’s always that like, delayed gratification, whether it’s business or anything personal, right? You really gotta like, grind for a while before you really start to see see the fruit. But now, you know, I’m looking in the mirror and I’m like, okay, like, you know, the Colombian ladies will like this.
Andrew Morgans 40:09
Very similar to SEO in a way. You know, it’s something that’s slow going, but it starts to really ramp up over time and pay off. Yeah, yeah. Medellin, we’ll see if you ever leave Medellin because I’ve heard it’s an amazing place.
Eddie Wheeler 40:22
Yeah, I’m super excited to get there. And lastly, where can people meet up with you as well? If you’re going to be there.
Andrew Morgans 40:29
Yeah, I’ll be there in November. So I’ll be coming with a couple of my guy friends doing a music festival there. Some of my favorite artists will be there in November. So it’ll be my first time. I’ve been to Bogota, but my first time at Medellin and Cartagena. So. But lastly, Eddie, where can people follow you follow your journey? Find Guava Listings, you know, reach out contact you?
Eddie Wheeler 40:51
Yeah, so I think the best place is definitely GuavaListings.com where you’ll find you’ll usually find the link to that free masterclass. I believe that that might be linked on the episode as well. But um, GuavaListings.com. Or, you know, Eddie @GuavaListings.com. If you want to reach out to me personally about, you know, whatever it might be, you know, I’m happy to to give some some free advice. And then, you know, perhaps we could work together or not, but, you know, happy to definitely have a conversation with you. And then yeah, on LinkedIn, just Eddie Wheeler. I guess if you type in Eddie Wheeler Guava Listings, LinkedIn is always a good way to get in touch with me as well.
Andrew Morgans 41:30
Awesome. Andy, thank you so much for passing on your knowledge and sharing value today. It’s been really nice getting to know you. Thanks again, Hustlers for tuning in. Always appreciate your attention and supporting us and then FullScale.io, our sponsor for today’s episode. We wouldn’t be able to do these shows for free and push them out the way we would without their support. So FullScale.io, do you need to hire software engineers? Testers are leaders they have the people in the platform to help you build and manage a team of experts. At Full Scale, they specialize in building long term teams that work only for you learn more when you visit FullScale.io. Thank you, Eddie. Thank you Hustlers. We’ll see you next time.
Eddie Wheeler 42:06