Music Industry NFTs

NFTs in the Music Industry

In this episode of Startup Hustle, join Matt and Matt for Part 3 of our NFT series as they discuss NFTs in the music industry. Hear why music NFTs are gaining so much popularity, how NFTs benefit musicians, and what the best marketplace is for music NFTs.

Covered in this episode

If you want to know more about music NFTs, then this episode is sure to feed that curiosity. Matt DeCoursey and Matt Watson share their thoughts on music NFTs with a little background on the music industry.

This is part 3 of a 10-part series on everything about NFTs. Find out what The Matt’s has to say about music NFTs, some real-life examples on how to earn through them, and what’s included in their stash.

Get Started with Full Scale

Audio Notes

  • Matt DeCoursey talks about his love for music and being part of the industry (02:08)
  • Updates on new NFTs (03:14)
  • What’s in Matt Watson’s Music NFT stash (03:51)
  • Snoop’s Music NFT (05:23)
  • History of the music industry (06:03)
  • Music NFTs (08:47)
  • “The Doggies” Music NFT (09:01)
  • Difference between regular NFTs vs. music NFTs (09:31)
  • Buying Music NFTs (10:07)
  • On using music (10:50)
  • Music NFTs real-life examples (12:15)
  • Exciting things happening in NFT (14:01)
  • Making more money off NFTs (16:22)
  • Musician’s strategy regarding NFTs (17:40)
  • Matt DeCoursey’s concerns about buying NFTs (21:44)
  • What is Sandbox? (23:45)
  • The Japanese brand “BAPE” NFT drop (26:03)
  • A great use case for NFTs (26:36)
  • What you can do about NFT technology (29:45)
  • The benefits of creating music NFTs (32:45)
  • Some marketplaces in selling or trading NFTs (34:48)
  • Integrating collectible NFTs on concert ticket stubs (38:19)
Best Entrepreneur Podcast Available on Spotify, Apple and Google Podcasts

Key Quotes

When it comes to music NFTs, you might be 1 of 250 people.

Matt DeCoursey

I like anything that brings money into the musician’s hands and the creators, but it’s going to be interesting to see how this comes out.

Matt DeCoursey

Imagine a lot of musicians make more money streaming music videos on YouTube than they do streaming on Spotify.

Matt Watson

Everybody always wants something new and cool to talk about, and NFTs right now is just like that new and cool thing. Nobody knows how useful they will be or not.

Matt Watson
Startup Podcast for Entrepreneurs

Rough Transcript

The following is an auto-generated text transcript of this episode.

00:00.00

Matt DeCoursey

And we’re back! Back for another episode of Startup Hustle Matt DeCoursey here with Matt Watson. Hi Matt

00:06.55

Matt Watson

What’s going on, man you want to buy a box of stash?

00:08.99

Matt DeCoursey

Ah, probably, but I don’t know if we’re talking about the same thing.

00:12.51

Matt Watson

I got it from Snoop Dogg, and I’ll sell you a box of stash. It comes with a lot of cool benefits, and I don’t know.

00:17.15

Matt DeCoursey

Ah, ah, ah, okay, okay, well, it’s an interesting way to start the show, I’m assuming, since this is. Ah, another installment in our series about the Nft industry that you’re referring to the many many so Snoop dog and death row NFTs that I’ve seen that have been issued. okay okay I

00:40.31

Matt Watson

Um, yeah, I’ve been smoking some stash over here Snoop Dog stash

00:49.91

Matt DeCoursey

I’m so tempted right now to veer off course and ask you so much about that. But ah, what I’m gonna do instead is I’m going to let you know that today’s episode of Startup Hustle is sponsored by Canva, where I might actually go and.

00:55.30

Matt Watson

Snoot dot.

01:06.98

Matt DeCoursey

Make an image of what I believe your stash actually looks like, but that’s also where people go to collaborate and create amazing graphic designs for free. So whether it’s a presentation to share an idea, a video to launch your business or a social post, start a conversation with Canva, you can design anything and discover the magic. Ah, visual communication and how Canva helps you create a lasting impact today go to http://canva.com to learn more There’s a link in the show notes for that, Matt there’s also a link to go back and start catching the episodes of the series. So we’re back in it. Hopefully, we will deliver this series on time, unlike our 52-part series about how to start a tech company that came out two months late, I know? Yeah, well we.

01:49.21

Matt Watson

That was a fun series. This is fun, too though I like it. Maybe it’s all the stash, and I don’t know.

01:56.28

Matt DeCoursey

we’ve been learning a lot. yeah, we’ve been learning a lot, so I think the important thing is always to check out your stash before you listen to your music and NFTs. But I’m excited about today’s show because, you know, I have a passion and a love for music I have a history in and around the industry. Including my co-authoring of the book the realist guide to a successful music career with my dear friend Joel Cummins Matt, did, you see all of the amazing musicians that were there? We had a member of Dave Matthews’s band, right? The forward, we had Taylor Hicks, former American idol winner at classic rockers like Huey Lewis I mean it just went on and on that was a lot of fun. Yeah, it’s always fun when you get to hang out with your heroes. So yeah, so you know we’ve been talking about I’m a rockstar, so in my mind, I’ve been legendary for years. So.

02:31.16

Matt Watson

There were some big names in there very it was very cool. Get to hang out with rock stars I Just get to hang out with you. Yeah.

02:49.10

Matt DeCoursey

You know we’re talking about NFTs, non-fungible tokens, and the applications that so many people are finding with them, and just you know, as I mentioned, this is part of a broader series with the first series titled wtf as an NFT. And the second one’s about NFT art, now you know, in the art episode. We dabbled a little bit with music who talked some about it, but this is specifically about music, and you know, much like you mentioned, we’re seeing a lot of it. Okay, so first off, they’re flooding the market right now. There’s like an Nft from like literally as we were starting recording, my phone sent me a notification from Adidas, who’s issuing another NFT the day after the Super Bowl Snoop dogs sold 44000000.

03:31.85

Matt Watson

Yeah, that was the stash box this? Yep, that’s what I was referring to yeah, $5000 a box.

03:36.80

Matt DeCoursey

Those are dollars, dollars,, not doll hairs like that’s real money. Ah, and you know, so what is that, right? So what? What? Matt, what’s in your stash?

03:49.38

Matt Watson

Well so I was looking it up today in preparation for our episode today about this and I was trying to figure out I’m like what happened to the Snoop dog thing that happened after the super bowl and whatever and what the hell was it and honestly, it was really hard to even find what the hell it was. And finally, I found on OpenSea, which is one of the largest ah places marketplaces for NFTs most people have heard of OpenSea.io which is like a billion-dollar unicorn company now. Um, there are some stash boxes on there. And it says if you open the box. You randomly get one of the tracks that are on this new album along with some other potential goodies, and in the future, you may get all these wonderful things, and we’re going to promise. You’ll get all these cool things in the future, maybe in experiences and whatever, right? It’s, ah, it’s all hype, right? And so there are a few of them on there, and then evidently, I guess somehow you open the box, and you figure out what song you got, and then those songs were also for sale on, so the boxes were listed for still about 5 to $6000 on OpenSea. Yeah, it seems like the price of them is kind of trending down. But then the songs were selling for like 1 to $2000, so I guess whatever else you get in the box is probably worth nothing, and so you open the box for $5000, you get a song that’s worth $2000, but it’s all to me. It’s all hyped total bullshit, I’m gonna be honest.

05:18.87

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, you know I’m not going to disagree with that in full and now, so but all right I did similar research, and this is what I found and where we’re going to use Snoop, so Snoop, if you’re listening, come on the show and talk to us about this because I think that would be.

05:32.51

Matt Watson

Tell us about your cash. Grab, we want to hear about how you did this big cash. Grab Yeah yeah.

05:37.38

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, right, right? And by the way congratulations because guess what if you can do it go for it now. Yeah, so one of the things, before I talk about what I found with Snoop and the death row, releases specifically and you’re right about what you’re talking about with the stash box. And they stoop like killing it. He’s like leading the charge for music and NFTs. So ah, you know a few things that I want to set I want to set a little foundation for so you know as I mentioned history in the music industry now I worked on the musical instrument side. So at one point, I worked for the world’s largest maker of electronic musical instruments Roland. And went on to have my first real business for the following eight years I was in a ticket broker so I worked with live events and worked with teams venues sometimes artists to help them sell stuff and sometimes you just bought tickets and sold them anyway, we’ve so been around it for a while. But. Over the last twenty years for all of you listening if you’re old enough to remember twenty years ago ah music went from. Okay, so you had vinyl actual records now that was way more than twenty years ago and the problem with the vinyl record was it was big and it was just you had to go to a store and buy. Then later cassettes come and there are 8 tracks and then cassettes those are easier. You could put them in your pocket. You could have a whole bunch of them. You could play them in your car now with that after that comes the compact discs now when they compact disc came out. It was a huge windfall for musicians and namely for labels. Because it costs like a nickel to make a cd and they were getting ten fifteen bucks for them now when that was going on artists weren’t touring as much because touring wasn’t as profitable because. You know now. Okay, now if you wanted to go. Okay, so snoop dog and ice cube are coming to Kansas city this summer and it’s probably like $200 a ticket for a VIP ticket now twenty years ago that was when I’ll take like if you go back and look at all ticket subs. They’d be like $19 $29 thirty-nine they didn’t get the kind of money they got.

07:30.42

Matt Watson

Cheap.

07:37.40

Matt Watson

Yeah.

07:42.49

Matt DeCoursey

Because they’re making money off recording and stuff like that, so then everything gets disrupted with Napster because people start file sharing and it forced music to change and then it all evolves into basically the streaming services that you’re going to see now. There was a brief interlude where you’d buy like.

07:48.22

Matt Watson

Yeah.

08:01.41

Matt DeCoursey

Um, oh dude, you know how many times I spent ¢99 on 1 song on Itunes because it was a lot right? So with that as the revenue from recording began to drop musicians turned back to the road and started making huge money from touring now over the last couple years. That hasn’t even been possible so you know the topsy-turvy world of revenue for music creators has gone up and down and now right and right now they’re in a pretty they’re in a new flower as blossoming that might resemble a little bit of a tulip and Tulip Mania in some regards meaning like it’s getting a little It’s it might be a little overhyped or whatever. So so now back to music NFTs you’re seeing a whole wide variety of different stuff come out so Matt mentioned kind of like the blind box like buying it. You have some rights to some stuff things like that. There’s a level of exclusivity. Other things that that were Snoop dog related so Snoop also released the doggies and these are little NFT sandbox characters that will be like avatars in avatars and the metaverse now those.

09:05.82

Matt Watson

Yeah, for Sandbox they’re like a skin.

09:16.47

Matt Watson

Those are trading for like $600 a lot more than $600 yeah

09:18.51

Matt DeCoursey

Ah, they put tenth out. Yeah, and there’s 10000 of them though. It’s a lot. Yeah, it’s a lot of money. You also have other individual so they did also release a bunch of individual tracks. So what they’ll do is they’ll put one it so when we were talking about art and NFTs. Most of the time it would be like a 1 of 1 if you go to out Decourseim out at Twitter you can see the apes that we you know that we bought as examples and you get 1 of 1 now with a lot of the music stuff what it comes out is they’ll put it out and you’re buying. You might be 1 of 250 people that own it.

09:36.99

Matt Watson

Um, one.

09:55.57

Matt DeCoursey

It’s not always a 1 of 1 kind of thing so they’re issuing them in different quantities and menting them the same way that they do image-based stuff and then I you know I just didn’t have time to get it done I was actually going to buy a different death row snoop dog release. Where you you would have a song and you actually owned the rights to the song with it right now I don’t write. Yeah.

10:16.41

Matt Watson

I think the goal with some of it will be a revenue sharing model right? where it’s like as a fan you can help help support the musician now supporting snoopog is probably a bad example but supporting like you know a small up and coming band of like you get it. They get 1000 fans to put in five hundred bucks or whatever and that gives them enough money to.

10:30.62

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

10:35.60

Matt Watson

Go on tour or pay for the recording cost or whatever and then if they make it big then you know you get some of the streaming revenue or whatever.

10:41.30

Matt DeCoursey

And but so so and and with that what I I was going to do was I was going to purchase. Ah um so I can’t just publish I can’t just use a snoop dog song during this show or the intro and it.

10:55.40

Matt Watson

M.

10:58.80

Matt DeCoursey

Or anywhere else because tech why could. But I’d be subjecting myself to potential legal action from them because I don’t own the rights to the music. So like the the song that’s playing and the startup hustle intro where you hear my voice talking over it. I I purchased that from a non-royalty source meaning like I had to pay a little bit of money for it. I think I paid like thirty bucks for it. But then I didn’t have to pay royalties on it now. So here’s the thing because I had then I have the rights or that’s way it’s set up so in this in that last example, you could get like you’d have like 1 of 100 but you would own.

11:16.46

Matt Watson

Um, yeah.

11:33.92

Matt DeCoursey

The track so you could add it it and it like says that right there in the in the definitions like you own the rights to the music feel free to mix it use. It do whatever you want with it and now that would have been like anywhere from like so here’s a funny thing it would have been like 30 to fifty bucks to buy the Nft and then. And then the reason I didn’t buy it because at the time the network was a little jammed up for ethereum and it wanted $75 worth of of fees to transfer it and that’s why I didn’t complete the transaction which is a major flaw in this. So that’s ah, a problem because.

11:54.32

Matt Watson

A yeah, there’s that problem too. Yeah, yes.

12:08.16

Matt DeCoursey

Not everyone’s going to not all these music acts are going to be able to get $5000 per Nft they’re going to like maybe get like 20 or 50 or something like that. So and then one other example so I used this in the art one. So a good friend of mine Jake Seneer who’s also the guitarists in Umphreys Mcgee

12:10.56

Matt Watson

Yeah.

12:27.10

Matt DeCoursey

Um, did a live show about a year ago like online kind of like a Zoom kind of thing and they recorded it would he improvised an entire song that was like 25 minutes long and then they sold the nft afterward. So the person that bought that did have a 1 of 1 kind of thing and technically they bought the song. So. There’s a lot of things and then you know what actually 1 more example. So um, there is a a site that popped up golive l y now this is I know people that started this and I know some of their investors. This is a platform that. Ah, musicians are using to teach lessons and do private performances for people and stuff like that and they just launched an nftt component so they just partnered with an Nft creator of sorts to help people in the go lively platform. So for example, if you so you could hire jake he’ll do a private concert for you and it’s like $1500 so if you want the nftt that goes with that as well. Afterward. You could also buy it so a lot of really cool stuff coming out and I like I like anything that puts money in the in the musician’s hands. And the creators. But it’s gonna be real interesting to see how this comes out because much like ah your twitter profile matt I’m pretty sure that you don’t own that board ape but you can drag and drop it and you’re like yeah yeah, so right.

13:50.49

Matt Watson

Nope I don’t I right? Click save as right click save as go to Twitter upload.

13:59.12

Matt DeCoursey

So that’s the interesting thing is is to see how any of this is going to be tracked or known now with that. Do you know who Scooter Braun is he’s a he’s he’s a producer but he he’s the guy that bought Taylor Swift’s cat song catalog and flipped it.

14:06.30

Matt Watson

Now it’s that DJ.

14:15.18

Matt Watson

Nah.

14:16.33

Matt DeCoursey

And made like one hundred and fifty million dollars in like a week because here’s the thing is yeah yeah, yeah, okay, and and you know what? and thanks for bringing that up because it’s a really good point because Taylor Swift is like I don’t like that. So how does scooter Braun buy Taylor Swift’s music.

14:17.60

Matt Watson

And then she rerecord and then she rerecorded it all right.

14:33.25

Matt DeCoursey

But’s because she originally sold a contract to a resta or universal or someone and they own the rights to the songs. So most of the musicians that you listen to have already sold that stuff or don’t own they you know they get. Ah, it’s like a tenth of a cent per play on Spotify.

14:37.75

Matt Watson

In.

14:51.80

Matt Watson

Yeah, it’s it’s $3000 per million streams is what I got from Google roughly.

14:52.91

Matt DeCoursey

So I haven’t it yet. Yeah, yeah, and and dude that’s a lot I mean that’s a lot. So here’s an interesting stat. So only 1% of artists received 90% of all streams.

15:08.90

Matt Watson

Yeah.

15:11.30

Matt DeCoursey

So you look at the 1% and this is we’ve used this as the long tail example so there is like a lot of artists that get like these tiny amount of streams. But there’s so many of them that those all add up to be more than the top 1% in the end but well they could so and with that only about.

15:14.00

Matt Watson

No.

15:29.97

Matt DeCoursey

The top eight tenths of a of of a percent of seemingly famous and top artists earn an average of 50 grand per year from streaming less than 1% of all artists 50 grand a year now. Let’s give some context to our friend and ah.

15:38.78

Matt Watson

That’s not very much at all man not much at all.

15:48.19

Matt DeCoursey

And co-star of startup hustle tv Eric Perkins the famous homebuilder Eric Eric might make that much every month off making Youtube videos right now. Yeah right.

15:56.70

Matt Watson

Yeah, which is amazing. Well and and I imagine a lot of musicians probably make more money from streaming music videos on Youtube than they do streaming on Spotify and step 2 They got to be everywhere.

16:08.86

Matt DeCoursey

It’s just got to be. It’s like collective. It’s like all together. It’s like there’s not like a silver bullet that’s solving it and the problem has been is that the real money right now is coming from live music touring.

16:17.63

Matt Watson

Yeah that’s what was gonna say yeah it seems like they don’t make a lot of money from streaming and they make they make all their money on the on their tours and if they can make more money off NFTs I think you know all the power to them and you hear these stories of djas and stuff they’re like oh I never made much money and I created some kind of enough t series and I made like. Way more money than I’ve ever made in my career and I think everybody’s still trying to figure it out right? But to me I feel like at least what Snoop dog was and I didn’t listen to the album. Maybe it’s really good, but let’s just assume it’s really terrible. They’re like I threw together 18 songs.

16:37.17

Matt DeCoursey

Right? right.

16:47.13

Matt DeCoursey

You didn’t you didn’t buy 1

16:52.79

Matt Watson

And I did some hype around this shit and I got our bay to pay me 5 grand and ha I’m running into the bank. That’s what it sounded like to me man. Well I’m just gonna be honest $44000000

17:01.46

Matt DeCoursey

Dude $44000000 the day after the super bowl. So do you know that the artists have to pay to be to perform at the super bowl. Yeah, it’s but it’s usually it’s not it’s it’s.

17:07.16

Matt Watson

Really. Wow.

17:13.65

Matt DeCoursey

And they are not the ones that usually pay. It’s usually a label. So if you notice if you go back in the history of so of the super bowl the day after the super bowl I was expecting a tour to be announced with Snoop Minm but they didn’t so instead they made $44000000 off of selling. Um.

17:14.85

Matt Watson

Yeah.

17:23.60

Matt Watson

Yeah.

17:31.56

Matt DeCoursey

Dot M P force good for you me.

17:33.66

Matt Watson

Yep, it’s crazy man but you know I wonder like somebody like Umphreys Mcgee you know, have you talked to them about their strategy with NFTs . Do they you know they have unique shows basically overnight like could they make an n ft of every one of their shows and.

17:43.66

Matt DeCoursey

That you you have a good point. Yeah, so you know they so let’s well let’s talk about that for a second because I was always impressed that they’ve been together for 24 years and I first saw them like a very long time ago and when you went to the show.

17:49.22

Matt Watson

But why would I buy it.

18:01.58

Matt DeCoursey

You could actually at the end of it. Go over to a little booth and you could they they had these towers that were burning cds of the show that you were just at so for ten bucks you could leave with it and they’d sell a couple hundred of them a night right? So so with that.

18:10.61

Matt Watson

Ah, yeah.

18:20.92

Matt DeCoursey

Um, that that kind of evolved into now they have a streaming kind of thing so they’ve recorded almost every show they’ve had for 24 years which is is distributed primarily through subscription-based platforms. There’s one called http://nugs.net so they have perpetual gate revenue. From all that all those shows which twenty years ago it was ah it was tedious to record things digitally live now. It’s like super easy but you know now you just plug something to the back of the soundboard and go. But you know I haven’t talked to them about that I know that I mean there’s a land grab going on for Nft stuff right now. So.

18:42.30

Matt Watson

The.

18:58.32

Matt DeCoursey

I Mean if if they aren’t doing it. They probably should I’m not sure how that would translate though you know like because here’s the thing is you’re also competing against yourself like why would I want to buy that when I can go listen to it on the platform I’m already subscribing on.

19:12.13

Matt Watson

Yeah I mean I mean I use Spotify and stuff right? myself. So it’s I don’t know it’s weird. The the thing that makes most sense to me is like the Taylor Swift example where like oh I sold my my you know collection of all my music to. Whoever write for one hundred and fifty million dollars if instead I could have basically sold it to my fans and now it’s like a publicly traded thing almost right? like if you want to own part of her music and and if there’s a what you know you spi to receive part of this the proceeds and and streaming revenue and everything that comes with it that would be kind of cool and.

19:31.77

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, yeah.

19:46.88

Matt Watson

I Guess you know based on how much streaming revenue there was on a monthly basis. There would be some tangible value to it right? which would kind of make sense.

19:54.11

Matt DeCoursey

So I think what you’re going to see more of is you know artists make ah musicians make a lot of money off of Vip type stuff you know like so with that you you see all these nftts coming out and I think that these are a lot of them are going to translate into things like access like.

20:00.99

Matt Watson

Yeah, yes.

20:12.51

Matt DeCoursey

You know it’s like ah early like well ticket presales. Ah unlocking paywalls to see content that isn’t on Youtube and places like that and it’s like you know you’re buying. It’s like a you know digital on ah backstage pass.

20:27.20

Matt Watson

Everybody always wants something new and cool to talk about right and NFTs right now are just like that new and cool thing and nobody really knows how useful they will be or not be and i.

20:34.74

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, yeah.

20:42.53

Matt Watson

Nobody knows right? It’s It’s just a lot of speculation and playing around with things and then some people are throwing money into all of it too because they think well what if it it does become something big then I want to throw a few dollars into it just in case it does right? So you just got people throwing money at all this crazy stuff.

20:56.90

Matt DeCoursey

Speaking about throwing money at stuff. Canva threw some money at us to remind you that today’s episode of startup hustle is brought to you by canva with canva you can design your ideas with ease. You can get inspired. Have over half a million free templates and rich content library that helps you and your team achieve your goals sign up and start designing for free http://atcamba.com. There’s a link at the show notes Matt did you know that. I created a presentation for canva to sponsor this series. They’re sp. They’ve got the whole Nft series. But I used canva to create the the proposal for canva and I think that had something to I think that had something to do with why they were agreeable.

21:33.38

Matt Watson

That makes sense to me. Um, you’re still the best graphic artist I know because of camba.

21:41.91

Matt DeCoursey

Did you? Well I and I am a little worried because you know I we got I bought apes and I turned I I then so here’s the unfortunately so far the most useful thing I found out of an Nft is. And it’s funny because they’re they look like board apes but they are grandpa apes they’re kind of rip off apes now I turned that I used them for our image based ads to promote the series. So I’m hoping that I don’t get animal cruelty.

21:59.85

Matt Watson

Yeah, yeah.

22:11.96

Matt DeCoursey

Thrown in my face I don’t want don’t cancel me people I’m just I’m just trying to I’m just trying to to get your attention apes need love too man. Yeah.

22:19.14

Matt Watson

They do. So do you think if I buy 1 of these snoop dog stash boxes I’m actually gonna get anything out of it or later I’ll get like free backstage passes or something you think I’m gonna get I didn’t even get stash. You don’t even get stash.

22:28.88

Matt DeCoursey

No no I I don’t I don’t I mean you’re asking me and like you know I want to.

22:36.45

Matt Watson

Like there’s no stash in this dash box.

22:41.47

Matt DeCoursey

Put a disclaimer like we’re not giving you advice as to whether or not you should buy speculate or and invest in any of this stuff. We’re not experts in the space. We’re just sharing stories about what we learned? Yeah, well, that’s where I’m going with this cause so look I bought a bunch of NFTs like learning the process and I just dumped them.

22:47.51

Matt Watson

I Would suggest you don’t I would strongly suggest you don’t.

22:59.78

Matt DeCoursey

I’m like and they all they ah do almost all of a went for a loss so like in my experience. No no I I did I kept the I kept the the duck and I have some grandpa apes because I do that I Just like the apes.

23:01.87

Matt Watson

You sold all your did you sell your rubber duck.

23:11.58

Matt Watson

Okay, yeah, you do have some cool grandpa abes.

23:17.88

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, and the apes are the apes are are now being put to work with ads and um so here’s the question because you know so I bought Andrew an ape I found an ape that I thought resembled Andrew so I bought him one as a gift and my question is for you is if I buy you a doggie. Are you going to be able to show me what the hell these are used for because when they say like use this in the metaverse like what is what does that mean like how I don’t even get it explain it to me.

23:41.14

Matt Watson

In sandbox. Well so sandbox is just kind of like any other 3 d game like you know minecraft or roblox or any any kind of just video game right? You know you have an avatar you a person and you just run around and do stuff in the game. Although in sandbox when I played with it. There wasn’t shit to do and there was nobody in there but sandbox is the sandbox and the central land are two of the biggest like multi multiverse you know online metaverse crap. And ah, anyways, and yeah in sandbox there’s Snoop dog skins that you can make yourself look like snoopdog and there’s like a whole bunch of different ones different costumes if anything it’s just like you know for people who’ve played fortnite or something right? It’s like people will pay like twenty bucks so that you can have a Patrick Mahomes jersey when you play fortnite and run around shoot people.

24:36.44

Matt DeCoursey

Okay, so that that’s more palatable for me because they’re that’s something like if you look at um, ah.

24:38.49

Matt Watson

Right? I mean it’s the same kind of thing you just have like a skin but those yeah now for $600

24:50.36

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah I agree $600 is is a little high like I’m I’m literally looking they’re called the doggies. So I know this I mean we’re talking about music. So this is how a musician is using it. It’s a little beard off the path. So I’m like looking at what it looks like a pixelated version.

24:54.92

Matt Watson

Yeah.

25:05.94

Matt Watson

Of Snoop dog.

25:08.19

Matt DeCoursey

I wouldn’t even look I wouldn’t even look at this and go oh that’s Snoop dog. It looks like a black dude wearing shorts and ah and a light blue. Yeah I mean I gotta be honest.

25:16.93

Matt Watson

And it’s very pixelated. That’s the thing That’s why it doesn’t really look like snoopdog. It’s because it’s very pixelated. So yeah, it just looks like a guy.

25:26.30

Matt DeCoursey

All all of these don’t look like well like 2 of them do no yeah you saw okay so you well you talk about access one of I got Aird dropped ah from one of my apes from the ape chain. Apparently I got Aird dropped. Ah.

25:28.43

Matt Watson

The ones with blunt and other stuff. No.

25:45.15

Matt DeCoursey

I have an invitation to like the the cannabis cup or something like that. Yeah now. Yeah, but but with that that is what what we’re beginning to see so a lot of these things so a very kind of a very well-known fashion brand from Japan Bape.

25:48.70

Matt Watson

Oh my god.

25:59.31

Matt Watson

Is a.

26:01.74

Matt DeCoursey

Which is like its competitor of supreme. They just dropped an Nft and with before they revealed what they were they they’re having a big event and in Vegas and that’s how you got to get in so like now here’s the but check this out though those are like 1 one point two e so you’re paying four or five thousand dollars

26:10.31

Matt Watson

It’s all height baby.

26:16.69

Matt Watson

Wow.

26:21.27

Matt DeCoursey

For access to that so and remember I mentioned it very early I had an angry pit bull as well. So they did a party in l a now here’s the thing Matt and I are in Kansas that doesn’t do a whole lot of good for me.

26:25.88

Matt Watson

Yeah.

26:32.71

Matt Watson

So you know one thing I definitely see as a great use case for NFTs is actually like music tickets and like you talked about for like music experience stuff I mean think about if I’m whatever musician and I sell my tickets for $200

26:39.23

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, yeah.

26:49.70

Matt Watson

But then what if the market everybody wants to go see Justin Bieber or Elton John whoever it is and like people are willing to pay $1000 for the tickets. The musicians aren’t getting that right? The ticket brokers and you know Stubhub and all these sites are are taking their share of those profits. So if there was a way for the musicians. To be able to get more of that value as those tickets are resold later I could see that as a big benefit and then if the musicians could give away you know free NFTs you know and almost like a little badge of like I was there Kansas City April Third right like that kind of stuff.

27:18.69

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, and well that’s what I wanted. That’s what I wanted to bring up so you know you and I both worked in tickets So when when that first started Originally it was just hard tickets meaning like actual ticket stubs and the whole industry is away from that like you’d be lucky to even find a hard ticket.

27:27.80

Matt Watson

Yeah.

27:36.97

Matt DeCoursey

Because it’s all electronic or and it was pdfs now here’s the thing is um so at the ticket company where we did you know $30000000 in the last four years that we owned that I mean that’s so. People would call email and all the time like can I get the actual ticket stubs because I keep these they’re like I have a cigar box of of ticket stubs and like there was just something about printing the shitty ticketmaster pdf that didn’t do it then like.

27:56.69

Matt Watson

Um, yeah.

28:04.59

Matt Watson

Not just name.

28:07.75

Matt DeCoursey

And then where I’m going to an event later at the full scale suite and you want to learn more about what you do at full scale go to fulls scale io but we host entrepreneurs investors and influencers for events. We’re going to see Jim Gaff again tonight and there there’s no pdf or anything I got to use the http://axs.com app to send to transfer those.

28:22.27

Matt Watson

Right.

28:25.88

Matt DeCoursey

So there’s no collectible. There. There’s nothing that goes with that so I could see that being something and then I think one of the things that you’re going to see is all right? So let’s just say Jim Gaffigan because that was our example I could see his Nft potentially having. Something from that show and maybe him going like hey Kansas City it was great and yeah you know, just some shit like that that right and it’s a collectable and yeah.

28:47.35

Matt Watson

Right? And that kind of shows up in your digital wallet of like collectibles right of like yeah, they’re almost like trinkets or or badges of like these are the things I did in my life and I like I have a little collection of these like events I went to or whatever.

29:05.20

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, right? but is there ah is there a value that goes with that now. The one of the things that I do I think almost certainly.

29:07.11

Matt Watson

People that like to collect stuff like you said earlier people like to collect the ticket stubs or it’s those people. No.

29:18.51

Matt DeCoursey

Is going to happen as music and nftts and then also for like creators or famous people or whatever I think these are things are going to be in a digital wallet that’s attached to your browser and it’s going to end up unlocking paywalls if you want getting you behind. Where people without the Nft can go in to see see content songs anything I don’t know I mean that’s the thing that makes the most sense to me and then also the collectible side of the ticket stuff.

29:43.96

Matt Watson

See that the other side of this from a technology perspective. We go back to the technology itself most all the things that we’re talking about you could do and you don’t need NFTs or blockchains to do right? like.

29:54.92

Matt DeCoursey

No, we so we could record I could record after we’re done recording this I could click a button to process it which post produces it which by the way twenty years ago would have required an actual person to master a track. I just click a button and it fixes all of the most of the problems and I could take that file I could go to open cio and I could upload this episode and sell it as a 1 of one nft now I mean I’ve actually I’ve actually had suggestions that we do that with the show.

30:25.68

Matt Watson

Maybe that’s what we should be doing. Yeah, yeah.

30:32.38

Matt DeCoursey

For our guests and I’m not going to have you as a guest on the show and then try to sell you the Nft that goes with it for fifty bucks that’s a little shortsighted in my opinion.

30:40.22

Matt Watson

Yeah I mean part part of my point is that you know you talk about buying the rights to Taylor Swift or some of these kinds of things right? Um, you don’t need to do that with an fts. It could be done with some other marketplace and database just like in fortnite I can buy skins like.

30:51.68

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, not the most efficient distribution path. Yeah.

30:59.32

Matt Watson

You don’t. Yeah snoopog doesn’t have to sell them on open sea for sandbox for $600 like fortnite does it just fine without a blockchain right? like for for me, there are so many things that are blockchain related. It feels like people are just trying to use the blockchain for all these things that don’t necessarily need a. Blockchain to be used which always kind of annoys me. But it’s all the hype to me. It’s all about hype right now and NFTs have been all the rage for the last twelve eighteen months and yes, yes.

31:21.41

Matt DeCoursey

But in all the site right night right now. Last so so we you and I recently went and saw journey and toto. Okay, how many people in that sold out arena would be able to figure out how many of them know what the fuck and Nft is right right they’re right I mean yeah.

31:36.99

Matt Watson

None none there are a couple generations too old.

31:45.98

Matt DeCoursey

And that was that that was why we we found so much entertainment in this coinbase super bowl ad and I love that because that basically said if you don’t know what this qr code is we’re good with that And yeah, yeah I actually had a hard time.

31:53.62

Matt Watson

Yes, and honestly I jumped out of my chair and scanned it because I’m like what the fuck is this I like see I’m like holy shit. It’s coin base. Yeah because you have an iphone.

32:05.62

Matt DeCoursey

I have a hard time scanning it actually I had to get really clerk to the Tv and I actually was not impressed with that part. The thing that was most impressive was that the square actually went all the way into the upper right corner cleanly for the first time in the history of that old screensaver pattern yeah.

32:11.56

Matt Watson

Sorry.

32:21.23

Matt Watson

Ah, oh my God They must have did that on purpose too I don’t know if I saw that episode. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:24.75

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah I mean that they well they did do you remember that episode of the office. That’s where that came from so in the office they have a thing that was bouncing around like that and they would always get close and then finally like oh so yeah, people that followed the office and watch that for years eventually. Finally.

32:39.28

Matt Watson

Yeah.

32:43.29

Matt Watson

Perfectly hit the corner.

32:44.32

Matt DeCoursey

Has some satisfaction with that. Yeah yeah, Okay, so you know all right? We’ve talked about some of the different things that that come up and you know like when it comes to musicians like to benefit from that. Well obviously they can kind of they can create more. They can put some collectible stuff out there I think that’ll go well for musicians over. Overall I think one of the short sides of that is like the fact that like okay it it costs as much for your ethereum transfer fees as it does for the Nft like I mean Wow That’s like.

33:10.47

Matt Watson

M.

33:17.28

Matt DeCoursey

Now I think that there’s solutions coming out for that. We talked about some of the ethereum killers. Yeah yeah, that like Polygon Tezos and you know some of these other things that are really built to have so those are referred to as gas fees and um, why are they so high on the images and because if I transfer.

33:21.30

Matt Watson

There’s different blockchains. Yeah.

33:36.86

Matt DeCoursey

Ethereum to my digital wallet. It’ll be like $2 for like 10 grand.

33:40.40

Matt Watson

I don’t know man everything about ethereum is crazy and that’s why I don’t use it because yeah like polygon would be like ¢1

33:44.36

Matt DeCoursey

But like quality want to be but but why is that so much more than a digital wallet Transfer is it the size of a file is it The nature of the file. Is it.

33:53.72

Matt Watson

Um, so technically there are like smart contracts and maybe there’s some code that gets called in the smart contract because it’s basically like think about like every line of code that gets called takes more resources takes more cpu and so therefore requires more gas and ethereum.

34:00.77

Matt DeCoursey

An instant.

34:07.48

Matt DeCoursey

Take 4 4 Yeah free. Yeah well, that’s what I was wondering because if it’s an image or or music. It’s ah actual actual has some file size as opposed to just a serial number I bet it does because it can.

34:13.40

Matt Watson

Um.

34:19.17

Matt Watson

A it could be something to a storage size. Yeah I don’t know it doesn’t.

34:25.34

Matt DeCoursey

The way Blockchain works is. You’re going to. You know most of these things want like 35 network confirmations meaning they want 35 different places in the chain to get it. So if they all have to I don’t know it’s above my pay grade. That’s why we have you Matt you’re supposed to explain that stuff to us. So.

34:29.15

Matt Watson

Right.

34:38.94

Matt Watson

Yep, that’s why I don’t use ethereum.

34:42.15

Matt DeCoursey

Okay, so if you’re a musician and you’re interested in doing some of this stuff we did make a short list of what some of the best marketplaces are and these are still good places if you’re a buyer So we’ve mentioned open sea a couple times open seas kind of lead in the charge on a lot of this right now. They’re just kind of. Um, they’re the leader right now in my opinion am I wrong about that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but and so are you I know? But yeah, ask me after we hit record about that you know because yeah, I’ll kind of I might come Over. Um.

35:04.19

Matt Watson

No, they’re definitely the biggest marketplace snoop dog is on there. You want to buy some stash open CIo

35:21.00

Matt DeCoursey

Is that why my Apes eyes are so red. Yeah, okay so wait you were hanging out with my Ape you probably the stash. That’s right, The Secondhand smoke kind of thing all right? So Also you’ve got air Nftts Nifty Gateway and rareble. So I see Rarele a lot.

35:21.71

Matt Watson

Yes, yep, now you bought him on open sea and because of Snoop dog. Everything’s just getting kind of messed up. Yeah yep.

35:40.64

Matt DeCoursey

Um, you know you’re starting to see things that are coming in bundles. You know like originally you might have signed in with Google and then you see google Linkedin like all these other things like so there’s definitely a lot of stuff that’s trailing in the and the and the path and I think a lot of these marketplaces are really focusing on. So I mentioned that the ah the coin the teasos coin. That’s not even available on open c but a lot of these other networks I think are are going to probably close the gap.

36:01.60

Matt Watson

Ah.

36:12.70

Matt DeCoursey

On because dude I tell you what the least palatable thing about any of this has been those gas fees right? I know I mean so when I buy your doggie I might buy you just a regular dog I’m going.

36:16.75

Matt Watson

Oh yeah, it’s insane man. Absolutely insane.

36:28.28

Matt Watson

Like a real in light like a.

36:31.31

Matt DeCoursey

Um’m go and I’m gonna buy you a sheba enu I’m gonna name it Satoshi and I’m Justnna just drop it off at your house like I know and that whilst that way I still would have given you a doggie the same way the other night that I sent you a duck pick.

36:35.33

Matt Watson

My kids would be excited.

36:43.77

Matt Watson

Ah, yeah, you did you sent me a picture of your duck.

36:47.21

Matt DeCoursey

That’s the second most useful thing I’ve gotten out of NFTs is I’ve been sending people pictures of my duck which by the way is pretty funny because yeah, yeah, so well yeah, as we get ready to round out this this series you know once again in the first installment we just talk.

36:52.10

Matt Watson

Um, yeah.

37:05.58

Matt DeCoursey

Wtf is an Nft. We moved into nftt art. We’ve been talking about nftts in the music industry and we are going to I think the next episode’s going to be fun too and this is one that you know a lot more about we’re going to talk about play to earn. Yeah and i.

37:17.45

Matt Watson

Yes, the gaming side of it.

37:22.16

Matt DeCoursey

So I think that’s how I’m going to finance buying you a dogie as I’m going to buy it and let my kids use it and play the shit out of that and I’m going to get a return on it and when I break even when I break even then I’m going to send it to you. So so yeah, i’mm trying to find ways to reduce my burn rate.

37:31.14

Matt Watson

They can breed it.

37:41.46

Matt DeCoursey

Right? So as a quick reminder today’s episode startup husle is brought to you by canva where you can go to collaborate create amazing graphic designs for free whether it’s a presentation to share an idea a video to launch your business or a social post to start a conversation with canva you can design anything discover the magic of visual communication. And how canva helps you create a lasting impact today go to http://canva.com to learn more There’s link in the show notes and we’re putting ah a lot more links than we normally do in the show notes for this series so you can get to the other episodes quickly. Also so you can get to some example things if you want to see the apes I’m talking about I’ve been posting them on the startup hustle. Ah, Instagram joined us and start a puzzle chat and by the way I used canva to take my ape NFTs and turn them into ads that I’m also running on Facebook and Instagram. So yeah. All right? So Matt out of all this like I mean what do? What do you like like what do you think What do you think has legs. Yeah.

38:33.00

Matt Watson

Well I never thought of the ticket stub idea you mentioned earlier and and I think that’s actually kind of a clever idea if if there were some way if you’re at the show. Ah you know you could scan a Qr code or something like that and then you know. On your phone that would let you somehow like get the Nft of like oh I was there to see Ed Sheeran at you know madison square gardens on April Third or whatever and have that as like a collectible and be able to look back and see all the concerts you went to, you would have a shitload on Kansas City from all the shows you go to for sure. But um. Ah, you know other than that I really like the the idea of like maybe the funding side of it being able to help musicians fund. Um, you know a new album or or whatever it is trying to help them make more money than the three Thousand $ 3000 per million streams on. Ah, Spotify doesn’t seem like a lot of money. Especially if you’re a small artist and you’ve got a few thousand fans like you’re not going to get millions of streams so you know it’s interesting to me I think a lot of like what snoopdog did is sort of just a cash grab they’re just I feel like preying on.

39:29.33

Matt DeCoursey

It’s dog shit. Yeah out. Yeah.

39:43.37

Matt Watson

The dumb people willing to throw money at things At this point.

39:45.20

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, I’m not going to say that that’s that I disagree with that part I think that Well first off musicians and the music industry in general are creators and I think that they’re going to find creative ways to to get this stuff out there.

39:58.54

Matt Watson

Yeah.

40:03.22

Matt DeCoursey

I Think in the end the stuff that’s going to end up being the most popular and the most Utilitarian both for buyers and sellers is going to be that like it’s like the digital passport of sorts you know, meaning like get you to exclusive content.

40:15.32

Matt Watson

No.

40:18.90

Matt DeCoursey

Um, you know this isn’t part of our series but I’m actually recording an episode next week with Eddie George do you know who that is the like 10 time pro bowler yeah, so well, they’re using startup hustle as the as an episode to launch to announce their Nft series that.

40:25.61

Matt Watson

Football player. Yeah yeah.

40:37.87

Matt DeCoursey

Unlocks. Ah so him and Jerome Bedis are doing a series that is ah its ah, it’s basically them telling stories that you’re not going to hear anywhere else. So that’s like how you unlock it now but that’s been the whole point so you look at. All these artists all this stuff look everyone wants exclusive access matt you see over my shoulder here. You see the guitar that’s leaning up against the wall that thing is covered and vip and backstage passes from umphreys Mcgee Dave Matthews other band like you know? Ah I can’t I mean there’s it’s literally almost.

40:59.60

Matt Watson

Um, yes.

41:14.40

Matt DeCoursey

Here’s the thing I would never get rid of that guitar case like that guitar case is very personably valuable for me because every one of those things so a normal backstage pass people also think like oh it’s a lambminate. No, it’s usually a sticker because they change it every night so you can’t use the same one the next night.

41:19.73

Matt Watson

Um.

41:34.10

Matt DeCoursey

With that those are collectible things and they’re also easy to lose stuff like that I personally like sticking them to my case like that. But I think I think that that’s probably the future of it I Do think that there’s probably something to be said About. Um. Recording Stuff. You know like I don’t know I think early access you know I have just all of that I Really do think this is a good thing for musicians for touring artists and for the industry in general especially in the wake. Our lack of wake of 2 years of not being able to hit the road like the people I know in the music industry are not they they are just they are are raring to go when it comes to getting out on the road again and that’s still a tough process too.

42:14.85

Matt Watson

Yeah, yeah.

42:22.37

Matt DeCoursey

By the way. Did you see Eric Church canceled his show on Saturday because he wants to go to the North Carolina duke final 4 game you know what I respect that support your team. It’s too bad that the winner of that game is just going to end up losing to Kansas than ah yeah, two days later I know.

42:26.36

Matt Watson

I did see that yeah I did see that.

42:35.46

Matt Watson

Wo who woo wo let’s hope.

42:40.56

Matt DeCoursey

And but this is going to come out after that. So I’m going to either look like a fortune Teller or not that speaking of which mad I’m going to go? Yeah I’m goingnna go ah I’m Goingnna go unbox that guitar now and I’m going to record a 1 of 1 and upload i’mnna upload it to openee. Yeah, yeah.

42:56.10

Matt Watson

I’m going to go open some stash my stash box.

43:00.38

Matt DeCoursey

But ah change a plan I’m going to come over and help you unlock the unload the status box then I’m coming well actually no I don’t I there’s so I might have to uber over there for safety purposes I don’t want to give anyone the wrong idea man all right see you next week

43:04.10

Matt Watson

Ah, bring your guitar.

43:10.11

Matt Watson

Um, okay, all right see ya.

Sponsor Highlight

Today’s Startup Hustle episode is brought to you by Canva, where you go to collaborate and create amazing graphic designs for free. Whether it’s a presentation to share an idea, a video to launch your business, or a social post to start a conversation – with Canva, you can design anything. Discover the magic of visual communication and how Canva helps you create a lasting impact today! Visit Canva.com to learn more. 

Also, take time to meet all of Startup Hustle’s partners, each dedicated to supporting the growth of your scaling company.