Ep. #859 - NFTs – Legit or Bullsh*t?

00:00.00
DeCoursey
And we’re back for another episode of startup Hustle. Matt DeCoursey is here with Matt Watson. Hi Matt.

00:07.10
Matt Watson
That’s bullshit.

00:19.91
Matt Watson
Startup puzzles are pretty legit.

00:32.56
Matt Decoursey
Yeah, well, we’re going to talk about whether NFTs are legit or bullshit. I think some of that depends on who you ask when you ask and what you’re asking about now here we are and the ninth. Maybe tenth. You know we were this was supposed to be a 10-part series and it expanded slightly. You know we had an NFL Hall of Famer Eddie George sit down with me and announce their Nft series which was legit. It was legit. That was a key to opening the door to some really cool content now. As I mentioned here and in the series if you’ve been following along now if you haven’t been following along. You can go back to the episode that we released on April first which was not an April fools prank April Fool’s Day was not a prank but the series started with wft isn an NftT. did another one. We’ve been doing them every Friday since then and unlike our how to start a tech series this one appears to be delivering on time. Yeah, nope we’re on point on this one man. So on point but it’s been going on. So.

02:24.59
Matt Watson
Um, what no it’s supposed to take twice as much time and be way over budget.

02:52.60
Matt DeCoursey
We talked about what is NFT and NFT in the music industry. We had a little you know little side episode with Eddie George talked about earning and play you know play to earn. Tracking ownership and NFT assets inside the Ny industry the dark side of Nf is done and now we’re going to talk about whether this is legit or bullshit now Matt before we get into that I want to remind you that today’s episode of Startup Hustle is powered by Full Scale.io. Hiring software developers is difficult full scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably and has the platform to help you manage that team visit fullscale dot io to learn more.

04:18.37
Matt Watson
That’s legit it’s legit I also think Matt is legit but the other Matt is bullshit.

04:40.68
Matt DeCoursey
Oh god, that depends who you ask who the other Matt is so yeah anyway.

04:42.53
Matt Watson
You know I think Nft is technology is legit. Um, kind of like you know we’re talking about crypto right? and you and you talk about smart contracts and Ethereum, and when Ethereum came out and you had smart contracts. They were legit but nobody really knew what to do with them. Right? And you fast forward a few years and now we’ve got Defi and decentralized finance and all these other things are going on that are using Ethereum and doing some legit or things I kind of feel like that’s where we’re at. With NFTs, I think they first came out and everybody thought the first thing to do with them was to take pictures of apes. Um, and other let’s be honest, Dumbart work I don’t know if the world has quite figured out the best legit uses for NFTs like we’ve interviewed some people that had some good legit things like land or property or this or that and like all these different things that you could do with NFTs. But so far we. Mostly have pictures of monkeys.

06:47.66
Matt DeCoursey
You know feel it feels a lot like an early-stage business that’s feeling around for that product-market fit like they know they’re like 80% of the way there but they’re not 100% dialed in on like who the buyer is you know what? the best features advantages and benefits and sometimes even what the.

06:50.81
Matt Watson
Um, yeah, yes.

07:24.86
Matt DeCoursey
Best messages I think you’ve seen that now you know it’s kind of interesting because as I mentioned at the beginning of the show we started this series on April first and you know April first, 2022 now you know that was where and I don’t like to timestamp the stuff we’re actually recording this on the thirteenth of May. And as of today’s date, yeah, and know sales have plummeted meaning like the transactions that are occurring on open sear down the value of some of the what?

08:23.81
Matt Watson
Yeah, I guess so, yeah.

08:37.32
Matt DeCoursey
You know so some of that stuff. Those prices are all down and then on top of it. You know we’re here the day after the full-on collapse of the terra blockchain as a stable coin and you know like and you know and another and another pretty big.

08:50.69
Matt Watson
Yeah.

09:15.28
Matt DeCoursey
Meltdown in the crypto space meaning you know Bitcoin got down to what 28 grand from a high of 64 k and you know now here’s the thing. So what does that have to do with NFTs everything man you use these coins to buy them. Yeah, so like so the thing is if you were.

09:21.90
Matt Watson
Yep.

09:29.70
Matt Watson
Um, it’s all related. Yeah, it’s all related.

09:50.82
Matt DeCoursey
Buying a board ape and it was 100 Ethereum. Those hundred Ethereum cost half as much now as they did a few months ago. So, it definitely ebbs and plays you know it just ebbs and flows and has a lot to do with it. Really what you know when we say legit or bullshit I think a lot of bullshit flowed into the NFT space I was saying a month ago that you know hey look this is really this feels and seems oversaturated and I think there is a lot of there’s some legit stuff in there. Um, and there’s some other bullshit in there.

10:37.73
Matt Watson
Um, well things a lot of things have hype cycles, right? like you know it first comes out and there’s a lot of Hype and then a year or two goes by and everybody kind of forgets about this thing and then there’ll be something that will spur again and it’ll go through another hype cycle right? and. And crypto in general. It definitely is that way. It’s like every couple of years you got some kind of hype cycle and then between that nobody cares. So what’s funny is that when a board ape is three hundred thousand dollars or whatever or bitcoin is $70000 everybody’s excited and wants to buy it. But when bitcoin back goes back down to 30000 and the board apes are back down to $500 nobody will want to buy them and then they’ll be the next hype cycle and they’ll be like 10 x of what they were before like it’s so crazy people always get the FOMO but they never buy this stuff when it’s on sale.

12:25.38
Matt DeCoursey
Well, some of the things we talked about you know some things are definitely legit like okay so I go back to the episode of the inside the NFT industry with Ben Hopkins like that NFT I thought that was pretty cool like yeah. It was an entity of a skateboard and that got you into an actual game where you played that’s there. There was some utility there I mean now is that you that’s entertainment utility but that still felt legit. You know what doesn’t feel. Yeah.

12:53.19
Matt Watson
Right.

13:10.45
Matt Watson
It has the most. Yeah, um, I think I definitely agree with you. It has the best use cases in the games like Axy infinity or that or other like there are ones now where there’s like you download an app on your phone and you get sneakers and then.

13:30.66
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, yeah.

13:42.81
Matt Watson
You know, based on much you run a day or whatever your sneakers give you points or some shit. Whatever So there are some games that seem to be some of the best use cases.

14:06.20
Matt DeCoursey
I think some of the things that that feel legit are you know I get the N of T as a way of unlocking a gateway like a payment gateway like a paywall you know like I get I think there’s something legit to that because there’s something on the other side of it. Some of the things that are blunt. Yeah.

14:29.57
Matt Watson
Um, what’s like a ticket. It’s like a ticket to unlock things.

14:44.96
Matt DeCoursey
Right? right? right? Now here’s the thing though is if you buy a ticket to see the Kansas City Chiefs and then you use it on you know that any given Sunday it’s done and you move on right now in some of those cases if you look at nfts that unlock or gain access to something those are still. Tradable. They’re transferable. Um, you know like I don’t know I mean some of the things I definitely don’t get like all the art n of ts like those were I mean man I got to tell you that it felt like in. March and April especially March of April of and instill the early part of 2022. It’s like just every day there’s everything else has there here’s our new nftt like there was one ah for okay called murder heads that is was for a. It was just basically severed cartoons of severed heads that went along with a water maker. So I guess there’s like ah you know a canned water. Or something like that and I’m sitting here thinking I’m like what do you do with this, you know like it’s like they’re like oh yeah, that’ll be your ability to unlock to get merch. Okay, I’m pretty sure that you should pay me to wear your t-shirt not the other way around right? You know and like.

16:49.41
Matt Watson
Nothing.

17:28.52
Matt DeCoursey
I don’t know man I think it’s just like I mean ah am I right in feeling that like like why do I need to unlock something your shit isn’t that exclusive. It’s not like you’re trying to you know and I can see some of that now let’s look at another one. So japaneseclothingmakerbape

18:00.50
Matt DeCoursey
Is like there’ with supreme and other stuff and like people line up for days to like buy this like highly exclusive stuff. So so they sold NFTs which will give some people some pre-access or early access. So like it was these things that gain give you access to things that other people collect. Maybe. I still don’t understand what a digital image of a guy dunking a basketball is like that’s I like Nba top shots I mean I get it but I also don’t.

18:49.73
Matt Watson
Well, so you know you use the analogy before of like you know if you own the Mona Lisa you own the Mona Lisa and you can take a picture of the Mona Lisa and it’s like you could reprint it you have a copy of it. But it’s not the same thing as owning the real Mona Lisa but if you continue that analogy with digital art. Honestly, it doesn’t really make sense I can hang the Mona Lisa on my damn wall. What do I do with digital art I can take a screenshot of any board. Ape and do whatever I want with it so I can print it I do I can.

19:43.12
mattdecoursey
Right? That’s my point. Well, that’s my point. Yeah.

19:57.63
Matt Watson
Claim that I own it like nobody can prove it because there is no real 1 right? It’s all digital whereas the Mona Lisa there is one of them and it’s a physical thing. However, it feels like to me Nft art has all become really just about a status symbol on social media. That’s it. That’s the whole thing.

20:33.80
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, and I agree I agree now if that’s what people think is legit then sure I mean I guess it’s like you talk about having a board ape and you own the NFT I mean that’s how is that any different than like. So on my way back traveling from the Philippines, I was in the airport in Japan and I turned into the Gucci store, right? because I had just watched the movie about the Gucci family on the plane. So it caught my eye and I was like so I went in and I was like looking around and.

21:19.87
Matt Watson
Um, yeah.

21:39.82
Matt DeCoursey
You know I was like ah maybe I’ll buy my wife something and I saw this backpack up on the wall I was like hey how much is that it was $15000 ah for a fucking backpack man and I was like yeah that’s not for me, but the thing is if someone buys that it’s not I mean you buy they buy it. It’s a status symbol.

21:53.45
Matt Watson
Yep.

22:02.73
Matt Watson
Is a status symbol.

22:15.70
Matt DeCoursey
And um, you know what I don’t think we’re ever as human beings probably going to get away from that I mean even the most ancient cultures you look at the things they were doing you like like elongating their neck or you know whatever they were doing like there was always some kind of status symbol that went with it. So I mean now is that legit or bullshit.

22:33.69
Matt Watson
Um, yeah.

22:45.65
Matt Watson
I mean I’d rather buy a Ferrari and drive the fuck out of that thing and have a lot of fun with it I can’t do shit with a bit with a digital picture of an ape. Ah.

22:54.60
Matt DeCoursey
Hence, who you ask you know I mean than an Ape right? Yeah, no doubt right? Yeah well but on the flip side though I think the Apes actually might not be the best example because. The apes so you owned the Apes actually gave birth to other things that they actually gave a return right? So like if you owned aboard. Ape You just got a bunch of Ape coin you got a mutinatepe at one point you got some other things. So like there’s a legit nature to that as compared to like my fake apes.

23:34.87
Matt Watson
Yeah.

24:09.32
Matt DeCoursey
That I bought that don’t do anything except for. They’re a funny picture and make people ask if I own a real board ape now which I don’t know that said for $41 I made you look right? So now.

24:27.87
Matt Watson
I bet you could have got a fake Gucci backpack in the Philippines for $41 when you were there. Ah.

24:45.30
Matt DeCoursey
I probably could have but it wouldn’t have looked like the one I saw on the wall. Apparently, I have an eye for quality. Okay, so you know what is bullshit gas fees man like oh my God I mean so so.

25:02.64
Matt Watson
Ooh.

25:15.88
mattdecoursey
I mentioned the grandpa Ape which is like a board ape knockoff. So I bought one ah throughout this process and it was seriously it was like $40 of Ethereum and then it cost me more to it more to for gas fees. So what are gas fees? That’s it’s a transaction fee. Yeah.

25:35.17
Matt Watson
Which is basically a transaction fee for those who aren’t really familiar with it.

25:54.10
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah I mean and it’s terrible why on earth would it cost $65 to record a Jpeg in the blockchain now don’t poly doesn’t polygon do that for like a quarter. Yeah.

26:00.10
Matt Watson
Yeah, I mean it’ somebody who a penny. Yeah, a penny well, and then it was just like a couple of weeks ago the board 8 people yuga labs or whatever they’re working on their metaverse project now who knows if it’ll ever exist. But there’s all the height behind it.

26:36.72
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, yeah.

26:37.97
Matt Watson
So they sold land in it I don’t know if you saw like I don’t even know how much all the land sold for but just the transaction fees from Ethereum were like over a hundred million dollars like what the hell.

26:58.82
Matt DeCoursey
Right? Well, so that actually caused a lot of problems because you know they bogged down the whole Ethereum network during that like there was so and it caused a lot of issues So people you talk about hype and like.

27:11.67
Matt Watson
Yeah, yeah.

27:35.56
Matt DeCoursey
And you know that was the equivalent of like the stampede at the door of Walmart on you know, Black Friday you know and so people were trying to you know purchase like a $5000 thing and paying like thousands of dollars in gas fees. And then a lot of them got charged gas fees on transactions that didn’t end up going through and yuga labs ended up giving back like a couple of hundred grand in refunds.

28:05.51
Matt Watson
That failed. Yeah.

28:20.87
Matt Watson
Is that land worth anything now? Did it ah plummet in value or?

28:35.76
Matt DeCoursey
Ah, no, some of it resold actually someone ah someone and I well I don’t know I don’t know accurately. But I know that one of the lots is in there. 1 of the more desirable things actually resold for one point five million dollars

28:57.73
Matt Watson
Oh my god see I understand NFT for the metaverse right? because it’s not an image. You’re like buying a piece of land now we can argue about like metaverses and if they make any sense and if anybody’s going to use them and all that kind of stuff right? but from a technology perspective. It makes sense of like. You know there’s so many acres of land and I have this thing that says that I own this piece of land and I can sell it to somebody else like it makes total sense. It makes total sense for the use of the technology now you and I both know you probably don’t even need NFTs to do that like you can play other games like.

30:12.18
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, yeah.

30:11.39
Matt Watson
Roblox or a thousand other video games and you can buy shit in those too and you don’t need the blockchain to do it.

30:27.60
mattdecoursey
Yeah, yeah, well I asked the skater guy that same thing you know I said what’s the difference here and you know like I mean I’m not sure anyone really knows on some levels you know? yeah.

30:39.57
Matt Watson
Well, I think the biggest advantage is being able to sell it to other people. It’s like.

30:59.40
Matt DeCoursey
Well, that was his answer that was actually the main thing because you’re not allowed to sell those profiles but dude, do you think that That’s really stopped people from selling those profiles.

31:06.13
Matt Watson
No, it just makes it a lot harder right? I mean think about if you played candy crush for like 5 years and your own level one thousand like and you’re like I could sell my account to somebody else who wants to be on level 1000 or whatever, right? you could go sell it in a marketplace where today you can’t do that like Candy Crush doesn’t allow it. But these blockchain games allow that kind of. The thing where it’s like I can sell my progress basically to somebody else.

31:58.14
Matt DeCoursey
Well, when you say they don’t allow it that means they frown on it but that doesn’t mean people don’t do it.

32:03.27
Matt Watson
Yeah, you’d have to sell your email address or whatever Probably it’s just harder.

32:16.50
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah I mean something like that you know so I mean I mean there’s I don’t know you know what isn’t hard finding expert software developers when you go to Full Scale.io.

32:33.90
Matt Watson
It’s legit.

32:43.15
Matt DeCoursey
It’s definitely where you can build a team quickly and affordably. You can use a Full Scale platform to define your technical needs and then see what available developers testers and leaders are ready to join your team visit Full Scale io to learn more. You know Matt I’ve been talking to a lot of Startup Hustle listeners lately that have reached out through full scale. It’s been It’s been really fun. You know I said which who’s your favorite host and they know they don’t say Matt I actually don’t ask him that but I really have talked to ah. A whole lot of people that have reached out and you know sometimes that ends up just giving people advice and you know some of them have become full scale users and clients and thank you so much, everyone, for listening and you know we just had our three millionths down we just had our three millionth download yeah Yeah

34:02.79
Matt Watson
Reach out that’s crazy. Thank you.

34:26.94
Matt DeCoursey
I know and you know the crazy thing is the last million of that only took it took eight months the next million is projected to occur in six months and yeah, we’re trending we’re trending we should raise a round of capital or something. Maybe we’ll do it that we’ll do an NFT.

34:48.91
Matt Watson
We are the next Joe Rogan

35:05.54
Matt DeCoursey
We’re gonna do an NFT. You know what’s really funny is for those of you listening as we’re kind of summing this up, we actually did we considered launching and ah ah, NFT series like we made the designs we made all of it and you know, kind of it was like you know honestly when we talk about legit or bullshit. We’re like you know where we’re not.

35:20.17
Matt Watson
Yeah.

35:43.26
Matt DeCoursey
What do we have? That’s tangible that comes with this you know and with that it just really, it felt like a lot more work than it would have been, and now here’s the thing most Nft projects actually flop you hear about a few of them. But yeah, but for the most part, the numbers aren’t great on them.

35:57.87
Matt Watson
Well, did you see the headline about the azuki one? So Zuki was one of the top 5 ones it’s like an anime art thing have you seen that before that’s one of the big ones and so they announced this week.

36:27.92
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, I’ve seen it but I don’t know. But yeah, but what happened with him.

36:35.31
Matt Watson
Evidently whoever the guy is behind it revealed that he had done like 2 or 3 other NFT projects before that he basically just like disappeared on you like rugpooled or whatever you want to call it and so then now everybody’s like up in arms about like. Fact that this is the guy behind azuki and people paid all this money for these Suzuki things. But now they’re tarnished because of the guy behind it. You know, scammed everybody before as you can still own your damn Jpeg people. What did what difference does it make I don’t know.

37:41.64
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah I mean yeah, the blockchain and crypto community is interesting. You know in some regards with that. Yeah yeah I mean now I mean a lot of collector communities are like that I mean there’s a lot of you know, especially when it comes to authenticity.

37:49.61
Matt Watson
They’re very fickle.

38:06.91
Matt Watson
Punish the artist.

38:17.28
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, when it comes to authenticity and stuff like that. You know I have a little bit of history in and around art and the collection of it and stuff like that and you know like I mean the thing is is hey people guess what you know you don’t want to see where that sausage is made you know like a lot of these. A lot of these famous painters and stuff have ghost painters and all kinds of you know like I mean it’s ah it’s a cash grab. It’s a cash grab and if you’re willing to you know to me my opinion is you know some of these people they’re like buying signed prints and shit like that and they’re like yeah I hope it goes up in value too.

38:46.15
Matt Watson
Oh yeah.

39:26.14
Matt DeCoursey
To me. The only thing that’s worth anything is the 1 of 1 painting and I can hang that on my wall and I feel better about that. You know and I don’t know I mean I actually you know when it comes to like collecting things I’ve actually enjoyed all the paintings I actually have more paintings and I have room for.

39:23.61
Matt Watson
Yeah.

40:01.66
Matt DeCoursey
Ah, have wall space. So yeah, now that said I have I’ve never come close to spending anything on an NFT that was um, anywhere near what an original painting brought.

39:57.31
Matt Watson
My favorite.

40:14.19
Matt Watson
1 of my favorite pieces of art I know if you’re remembered at my house is ah it’s a bronze-like statue sculpture thing of like a dragon you remember that and yeah, good luck making an NFT out of that I mean I prefer physical art I’m sorry.

40:33.82
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:54.28
Matt DeCoursey
Right? Well and you know I mean a lot of people do for a lot of the reasons now Now that said I think one of the things that are going to determine a lot of the legit or bullshit nature of. And of Ts is okay so I had a valid point I thought with the board apes and the way that it’s like spit out things that gave returns like I mean that that’s like a dividend and you know so you know I could say that I mean a lot of people that bought those things like well especially people that bought them early are like.

41:21.90
Matt Watson
Yes.

41:48.81
Matt Watson
But.

41:57.20
mattdecoursey
Way, way up on them. Not only on the value now. But how much of that can they give birth to oh yeah.

41:57.45
Matt Watson
Well, I was gonna say we go. We go back twice I said earlier about hype cycles, right? So all they’re doing is continuing the hype cycle. It’s like you bought this thing Now you get a mutant now you get apecoin Now there’s going to be a mediverse thing like they have to keep dangling these carrots out there for people to give a shit about this thing.

42:23.66
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, yeah.

42:34.99
Matt Watson
Or otherwise, the hype ends and it’s over so what is the next bat next thing in the bag of tricks that continues the Hype.

42:43.22
Matt DeCoursey
Right? right? And that’s gonna I mean I don’t know I mean and now yuga labs has clearly done a good job of that now. As yeah as you and I were watching us Tera Coin um dissolve into nothing as I mean let’s talk about that like I mean you want to talk about if Nft slowed down that was $18000000000 that just turned into vapor I mean you know that’s ah that’s an interesting thing but at 1 point you know and I pointed out I was like.

43:22.87
Matt Watson
Yeah.

43:50.68
Matt DeCoursey
Okay, so apecoin now has a much higher market cap than Ust you know, and some of that is what do you do with apecoin?

43:53.65
Matt Watson
Yeah.

44:04.73
Matt Watson
Nothing you use in the Ape Miniverse that doesn’t exist.

44:20.54
Matt DeCoursey
That’s where I can’t I mean I want what if I want to buy a banana with it. Well you know that’s the thing I’m curious about with all this shit like what are we gonna do are we like? So if I get an if I get ah if I have an apartment in decentral land.

44:20.85
Matt Watson
And then what do you do on the 8 metaverses. Anyways. You throw bananas.

44:56.70
Matt DeCoursey
Like what am I gonna do am I usually put on the goggles and just like sit around and like.

45:00.57
Matt Watson
Hang out with your friends I guess nobody I don’t know man I don’t get it.

45:10.62
Matt DeCoursey
Do you want to come over to my apartment in the metaverse I mean like I got to be honest, as an adult man I’m just, you know I always used to remember when ah when you were a kid did you use like. You know you so say stuff to your parents like you know my kids look really into Pokemon you know I don’t have the heart to tell them I’m like you know like I mean these are fictional creatures know that doesn’t really do anything you know, but you seem to be having fun with it. But I look at it as an adult I’m like what am I going to do in the metaverse Now. I Mean maybe if part of the metaverse like do you remember when a lot of like when we came out and like how cool it was. They actually like to play tennis and all that other crap I mean if the metaverse is going to do stuff it’s like going to get people up and active and let them do stuff like I’m cool with it if it’s just going to be another version of a.

46:16.29
Matt Watson
Um, yeah, yeah.

46:53.56
Matt DeCoursey
Of walking around with a gun and shooting everything Maybe not so much.

46:51.15
Matt Watson
Well, and you had metaverses like this like second life that have been around for like hell almost twenty years now or whatever. That’s that yeah you have ah it has a niche audience of people that use it actually a friend of mine met her boyfriend on there. Um, but it’s not.

47:10.92
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, yeah.

47:28.52
Matt DeCoursey
On where okay.

47:27.31
Matt Watson
On second life. Um, but it’s not. It’s not like a mass-market thing that everybody uses. I just don’t ever see the metaverse stuff being this mass market thing that everybody uses.

47:55.14
Matt DeCoursey
I mean according to the internet. It’s like a trillion-dollar thing that gets the next thing it’s the next thing.

48:03.63
Matt Watson
Well, maybe we’re just turning into old fogies that just don’t get it.

48:20.84
DeCoursey
They’ve been saying that I feel like it’s they’ve been saying that for a while like all the ArVr and all those goggles and stuff you know that means they came out a long time ago like I feel like we’ve been yeah and how many of those do people watch now.

48:26.65
Matt Watson
Yeah, remember when 3D TVs were the big thing that’s fucking trash. No no.

48:52.22
Matt DeCoursey
Do you know why? because no one wants to sit there with the damn glasses on the whole time I have I have 2 or 3 3 D Now you bring it up I’m pretty sure I have a bunch of 3 D Tvs and I have no idea what to do with them I remember I bought one and I had like you’d even have like the nice glasses and whatever and like. I Watched it for like an hour and I was like you know what? I’m taking these off you know, just I don’t know.

49:30.21
Matt Watson
So that’s it. The only people that think the metaverse is gonna be successful are too young to have had a three D Tv and house’ stupid but have a fucking idea that was ah.

49:46.84
Matt DeCoursey
Or the people that buy 3 are that I mean maybe I mean it feels like a good idea you know, but they got to get you got to get rid of the glasses like why can’t I do this without the glasses and then.

50:06.31
Matt Watson
Um, ah yeah.

50:24.38
Matt DeCoursey
You know, then you get people to like my dad calling me and like why is my Tv all blurry and I go over to fixing because he accidentally like put it in 3 d I’m like come on. We got to have some safeguards here and speaking of safeguards you know there’s a couple of things that are. Definitely bullshit in the Nft world and they’re related to scams that people have been pulling so let’s just kind of you know so some of that is like you know some of its basic stuff man like you know like I don’t know I’ve received I received the phishing email that came to open sea users that’s like.

50:51.75
Matt Watson
Oh yeah.

51:28.86
Matt DeCoursey
Change your password. You know some stuff like that. But I think one of the things that are really tough to notice is you know like you mentioned before it’s so so accessible and so easy to upload stuff as you get a lot of imposter crap. You know it’s like It’s all these things that are coming up and they look like a board ape but they’re not It’s like, for example, I jokingly bought the grandpa Ape which has no affiliation to the board. Ape Yach Club and honestly they look a little better. They’re like sharper they’re crisper. They’re really good like going to go to the startup hustle instagram yeah, really good art.

52:24.63
Matt Watson
Really good art.

52:41.28
Matt DeCoursey
And they look fucking cool but they are not aboard Ape they’re like literally like peanuts like pennies on the dollar compared to it. But if you didn’t know any better. It would be easy to buy one of those and not know the difference.

53:01.83
Matt Watson
Well, and the problem is that we could set up a website today that looks like Yuga Labs website the people behind board ape that was like oh if you own a board ape come to claim your free, whatever in the meverse right? Get your free bananas for yours. Ford Ape and the metaverse whatever right? click here to sign in with your metamask wallet and claim it now. Yeah, and then as soon as they click that button. We just steal all their shit and most people have a hard time discerning what’s real and what’s fake and I mean.

53:58.96
Matt DeCoursey
Right? yep.

54:14.75
Matt Watson
You could set up all that website stuff and then just like run ads I guess on Twitter or Facebook for anybody who likes board apes or something and like find that audience and advertise to them and just scam them. Maybe that’s what we should do just kidding.

54:29.40
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, yeah. So there are a couple of things that you know there’s a couple that knows there are a couple of things I learned that. Well first off I’m like opens they have you see on a lot of social media sites that have like the little blue check Mark. You know, like the site owners and the platforms are like you know, attesting to it on some levels I mean so that’s a good start. You know another thing I looked at too is you know, a lot of these things that like on open c you’ll have the ability to click and go and look at Twitter.

55:15.31
Matt Watson
The.

55:49.20
Matt DeCoursey
Or you know, different social media like before you buy stuff like check stuff out and you know I think if you want to have legit ownership of NFTs they need to you need to have thought. Okay, you’ve talked about hype and hype cycles and exclusivity and demand. Well, that’s going to require more than 1500 people to give a shit about it most likely you know you’re talking about like these some of these major brands that put out exclusive stuff I mean they have a massive amount of people that are after it so you’re going to be highly speculative if you’re buying the stuff that no one’s really following.

56:20.27
Matt Watson
So yeah.

57:03.70
Matt DeCoursey
And then take a look at who those followers are because you know well did you see that Elon Musk say ah purchase of Twitter is currently on hold pending some review about how many fake accounts there might be.

57:22.69
Matt Watson
Dude, I think Twitter is gonna get shredded by that and they’re gonna find out like half the users are bots or something. Oh yeah, I guarantee Elon Musk like going through due diligence. He’s like okay only 5% bullshit because there’s way more than that that just respond.

57:35.44
Matt DeCoursey
Like half of the people aren’t real. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

58:02.12
Matt DeCoursey
Wait just does Twitter was Twitter saying that only 5% of their users are oh, there’s no way. There’s no way there’s a yeah I don’t blame them I didn’t realize they were that was the claim. You know there are literally like 10 different documentaries on.

57:56.37
Matt Watson
Every one of his tweets. Yes, yeah, and so Elon Musk is calling bullshit. Yeah.

58:39.64
Matt DeCoursey
Netflix HBO everything else about all the fake news and the election fraud kind of stuff and like I mean and they like walks you through these like like bot farms basically and you know they’ve got like a room full of people in Russia that are doing nothing other than setting up Twitter accounts all day.

58:38.51
Matt Watson
Um, yeah.

59:17.80
Matt DeCoursey
And then they follow each other to build the following and they kind of team up and do what they do? Yeah yeah.

59:17.10
Matt Watson
Well, or you have things that just post like newsfeeds or whatever right? You’re like I follow where Elon Musk’s plane goes and I’m a little bot that just spits out tweets about where Elon Musk’s plane goes but is that count as an active user.

59:53.90
Matt DeCoursey
Now now now. Yeah yeah.

59:54.25
Matt Watson
I don’t know I bet Twitter considers that to be an active user like oh they tweeted or they responded you know they interacted with a tweet that makes them active but they’re not human.

01:00:14.12
DeCoursey
Yeah, I think I think overall but you talk about wanting to avoid stuff. That’s bullshit. You just got to do a little searching. You got to look around and see you know what? I don’t know just do a little background just because you see it and it looks similar I mean jumping in and buying it. Isn’t a great thing you know and I don’t know I just think that I mean honestly as we kind of wrap up this episode and you know I think that I agree you know Gary V recently said that he thinks that 98% of Nfts will end up being worthless and I don’t disagree.

01:01:22.85
Matt Watson
Well like like we started the show I think Nft as technology is great and it will find certain use cases that are really good. But I don’t think digital art is really the one I mean it makes sense as a way.

01:01:54.18
Matt DeCoursey
Well, unless it comes from so as a famous well-known artist and then it’s different that’s a different conversation.

01:02:00.41
Matt Watson
Yeah, yeah, it can’t be just speculation around pictures of apes I don’t get it to me. It’s yes little lines.

01:02:19.96
Matt DeCoursey
Or Doodles like doodles that blows my mind you’re like okay so I’ve got like a red line that has a little curve to it and like really like what the fuck like that’s bull. That’s bullshit on that one now I mean it’s not.

01:02:30.69
Matt Watson
I Don’t understand who buys this bullshit. Yeah, that’s not even art.

01:02:59.22
mattdecoursey
It’s not I mean that feels like that’s like a cash grab you know what isn’t a cash grab Ma is knowing that if you need to hire software developers testers or leaders Fulls Scale can help. We have the people in the platform to help you build and manage a team of experts and you. Visit Fullscale Io All you need to do is answer a few questions then let our platform match you up with fully vetted, highly experienced team of Engineers testers, and leaders at full Scale. We specialize in building long-term teams that work only for you to learn more when you visit Fullscale Io. You know I mean I’d spend a better. The better part of my day trying to help people avoid the bullshit that comes along with finding the right people sometimes so and you know that’s ah that’s a tricky thing too now with that you notice I use the word vetted.

01:04:16.59
Matt Watson
Yeah, yeah.

01:04:40.14
Matt DeCoursey
And they’re like I think that’s the key when you do the Nft stuff like you know if you know and I don’t want people listening to think that we think that all Nft art is garbage I think most of it probably is I mean there is literally an open c of.

01:05:08.23
Matt Watson
Most of it’s a cash grab copycat stuff right.

01:05:15.80
Matt DeCoursey
Stuff out there that I’m like where did this come from like yeah, what is this? What utility? Yeah, what utility does this potentially have there are a lot of things that you look at like the board. Ape and then there’s like. Grandpa Ape the grandpa API club the blah blah blah blah blah blah blah dude half this stuff is where did the ape come from like the ape seriously became like the central creature.

01:05:36.35
Matt Watson
Just copycats.

01:05:55.35
Matt Watson
Well, you know you know within the crypto community they use the word Ape a lot right? like to ape into something So like if if like if a new crypto coin gets released people will ape into it I don’t know why they use the word Ape but that’s what it.

01:06:17.80
Matt DeCoursey
Why but does it have a meaning.

01:06:32.69
Matt Watson
Ah, that’s you didn’t realize that so that’s the references so like oh like the Luna came out I’m gonna ape into it I’m gonna go big into it I’m gonna invest a bunch of money into it. That’s how people use the term and I guess if you’re sitting around waiting for something to invest in. You’re a board ape and so that’s ah.

01:06:41.76
Matt DeCoursey
Now.

01:06:56.85
Matt DeCoursey
Where’d.

01:07:09.12
mattdecoursey
Ah, that’s the that’s I did not realize that part. Well so right now as at the point of this recording you can actually buy a board a for the cheapest that I’ve seen them since I followed this which is still 200 grand

01:07:10.61
Matt Watson
That’s where it came from. Yeah, there you go.

01:07:47.24
Matt DeCoursey
It has a bowler a black bowler hat on and the eyes are closed. Yeah, it’s really not even a great picture. Yeah yeah, I think I’m gonna send you maybe I’ll send you a grandpa ape for your birthday.

01:07:48.27
Matt Watson
Oh okay, well that’s good eyes are closed.

01:08:07.37
Matt Watson
Nice with his eyes open, please.

01:08:20.97
Matt DeCoursey
By the way, you have Og grandpa apes and reg and then grandpa apes and I’m like and you know what it’s like none of it so you talk about like bullshit so they actually have supposedly had their own little metaverse and I was trying to go figure out what it was and I I couldn’t even get it to work.

01:08:34.46
Matt Watson
What there’s a grandpa Ape Men Verse Oh my God Oh geez.

01:08:54.58
Matt DeCoursey
Apparently and it earns Gramp Coins which I’ve also I’ve like I’ve gone and tried to claim them and a couple of things and yeah and it never worked anyway. Yes because of everything.

01:09:08.49
Matt Watson
Are they worth more than lunacoins?

01:09:28.34
Matt DeCoursey
Literally, everything is worth more than luicoins I mean that’s wow I mean man that happened fast I mean in a week in a week so

01:09:32.69
Matt Watson
Went from like a hundred dollars to one-millionth of a dollar. Yeah.

01:09:55.88
Matt DeCoursey
You know I was curious I was thinking about this. Ah as we kind of wrap up and we’re a little off subject here, but it’s still pretty interesting because man that is like if you look at collapses so you look at like things that that just imploded and failed so Enron right was one that a lot of people talk about from a long time ago. What was Enron I’m looking at what Enron’s market cap was at the peak and it was sixty-five billion okay so Enron historically failed that took two or three weeks to totally resolve to the point where like? Complete and total anarchy in the office like everyone’s just literally like fuck this they’re leaving both this is bullshit I’m out a little bit sure now the us t coin at one point and Luna were around 40000000000.

01:11:03.61
Matt Watson
Yeah, it’s a little bit of that at Twitter going on right now.

01:11:28.87
Matt Watson
Um, yeah, just I think there was $18000000000 of us t minted more than that. Yeah.

01:11:43.30
Matt DeCoursey
And then the luna coin had value too and combined I think they were in the 35 to forty billion. So like when you look at like historic asset crashes like I mean that’s up there man that’s insane and you know and 1 of the things has been.

01:12:09.15
Matt Watson
Yep, it hurts.

01:12:20.28
Matt DeCoursey
That’s been another thing that’s pretty interesting and I read an article in the wall street journal this morning about ah $1000000000000 of wealth or value as has come off the board in the last six months

01:12:35.21
Matt Watson
Yeah, yeah, yep.

01:12:47.38
Matt DeCoursey
Now, look ah nfts All of This is all crypto-related. But you know what I feel like we’ve also said this like we’ve seen this before.

01:12:57.15
Matt Watson
The markets go up and down. Yeah.

01:13:11.84
Matt DeCoursey
I mean yeah, but this 1 violently and I think the same thing with Nft is I think the things though that that have a tendency to recover quickly and stick around are the ones that have the utilitarian value. So I think in the end if I have to go with legit or bullshit I’m saying. That if your Nft has some utilitarian nature to it or likes Matt you know what? I’m giving board ape a pass because they paid dividends in returns along the way you got apecoin you got other stuff like you pulled you extracted value out of it and still had the original asset to sell.

01:14:03.90
Matt Watson
Um, yeah.

01:14:15.92
Matt DeCoursey
Um, some of the other stuff I’m still wondering I’m like what the what? What is the rest of this just bullshit? So I mean I don’t I’m not real bullish on the pricing of that stuff long-term because I think the market’s gonna I think people are gonna continue to make the stuff they’re gonna continue to pile it in I mean I you know.

01:14:32.21
Matt Watson
Oh yeah, it’s what I always say there’s an unlimited amount of space in the metaverse because there’s an unlimited amount of metaverses.

01:14:53.58
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, and you know what was bullshit the um, the losses that I definitely took on my Nft experiences I can turn those receipts and to full scale and start a hustle right? Yes, yes because that’s the only one.

01:15:08.45
Matt Watson
For research purposes. There’s probably a per Dm for that.

01:15:31.12
Matt DeCoursey
There’s the only chance I have of recovering the cash. So all right? So Matt here we are you know episode 9 out of 10 we’re gonna do a full recap episode for the final part of this series where we’re gonna kind of visit. The. The little nuances of all of the different episodes but we wanted to put this one in because like we did. We’ve done the research at this point so Matt what’s legit and what’s bullshit. What’s your final answer or answer.

01:16:15.30
Matt Watson
I think the tech I think the technology is legit I think most of the current use cases are bullshit and this is a hype cycle around a lot of the use cases and but I think over the next 2 to 5 years we’ll see more and more real use cases.

01:16:50.46
Matt DeCoursey
What do you think the most legit things are that is what’s survivable.

01:16:54.27
Matt Watson
Um, I think it’s things where you can create or buy some form of digital asset and then be able to sell it to somebody else right? which could be a character in a game and things like that I think that’s why it’s been successful in games. But I mean it could be other things like. I Own a copy of a textbook or whatever. That’s that digital could be other forms of digital things. So.

01:17:52.38
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, yeah, well we’ll be back for our final conclusion in one week I’ll see you there man I’ll see you, and the end of the hustle verse where we that’s where we’re gonna be for episode 10 of 10 and then yeah.

01:17:54.19
Matt Watson
all right? all right ah yes that’s what we need. With Matt Coin yeah

01:18:31.64
Matt DeCoursey
Anyway, yes Matt’s coin is it’s worth more than Luna. But because well maybe I think anything actually and you could yeah that’s true.

01:18:31.43
Matt Watson
Yes, and a higher market cap.

01:18:57.66
Matt DeCoursey
And fewer death threats dude by the way that founder is like running for his life today. Not good. Yeah, I mean dude if you lose your life savings people I mean you know that’s some crazy stuff. But anyway be careful folks be safe look for legit avoid bullshit.

01:18:53.23
Matt Watson
Oh, I hear there have been people that committed suicide. Yeah, it’s not good, not good. Yes, yes, see you guys.