Ep. #1106 - Personal Development for High Achievers

Matt DeCoursey 00:01
And we’re back! Back for another episode of Startup Hustle. Matt DeCoursey here to have another conversation I’m hoping helps your business grow. So you’ve done a couple things in life, and you’re now a high achiever. You have done some things that people want to do, and you’re trying to figure out what you want to do next. And how do you move on to personal development? That’s what we’re going to talk about, and a whole lot of other stuff on today’s episode of Startup Hustle, which is powered by FullScale.io. Hiring software developers is difficult. Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably and has a platform to help you manage that team. Visit FullScale.io to learn more. With me today, I’ve got Joey Klein. Joey is the CEO and founder at Inner Matrix Systems, specializing in personal development and personal training and coaching. You can learn more at innermatrixsystems.com. That’s a lot to type in the browser. So just scroll down to the show notes and click that link. It’s right down there near the FullScale.io link. Straight out of Denver, Colorado, Joey, welcome to Startup Hustle.

Joey Klein 01:05
Hey, thanks so much for having me. It’s awesome to be here, man.

Matt DeCoursey 01:09
Yeah, you know, let’s go ahead and dive right into today’s conversation with a little more about your backstory.

Joey Klein 01:16
Sure thing, man. So I got started. I mean, I don’t know a lot of people. I didn’t set out to grow a business, that wasn’t really my intention. My plan, my story really started with, you know, a lot of suffering and not knowing what I wanted to do in my life. I remember I was in my freshman year of college, and I was partying a lot harder than most. And I remember my first semester, I had a four-point. I was on the Dean’s list. And then, I dropped out of the second semester because I really just didn’t understand what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go. Got heavy into drinking and partying and drugs and the whole scene. And, you know, I was real clear at a point that I probably wouldn’t be around, you know, for another year if I continued driving the way that I was because I was definitely, you know, pretty out of control. And I remember thinking to myself, like, I started out with a question, which is, what’s the key to knowing peace? What’s the key to knowing fulfillment? What’s the key to being happy? Because I didn’t have anybody in my environment back then, that represented any of those things. And so I set out on a journey and ended up meeting a mentor. Fast forward, I ended up traveling to different countries studying internal training or meditation. You know, I traveled through India and Thailand. And, you know, I went to Japan to study internal training and meditation. I ultimately met a psychologist out in LA, studied psychology, and Harvard trained neuroscientist, and I started to understand the mechanisms of how we’re built and why we do what we do, and what drives us. And the psychologists I met in LA. This is 20 years ago, so internal training or meditation was very fringe then it wasn’t popular like it is today. And you know, when I was working with her clients, I could get, you know, results in hours and weeks. And these are individuals she worked with, you know, decades that got stuck in a particular way. And so, when she saw those results, she’s like, you got to move out to LA. I’m gonna set you up. I was like, I have no desire to live in LA. I lived in Wichita, Kansas. I was a real small-town kind of guy. Actually, it’s called Andover, Kansas. But nobody knows where Andover is, so I always say Wichita. And, long story short, she convinced me to go out there. And then I ended up there for 12 years. That’s how I got my start. It wasn’t long before I was working with executives at Sony, some famous actors, actresses, that kind of thing, pro athletes, because that just happened to be her clientele. And that’s where I got my start. Fast forward, you know, my private practice was full. I had a waiting list of about 60 people on it. And at any given time, my clients asked me to teach programs and seminars. I had no idea what a program was or what a workshop was. So I just started teaching what I was teaching my clients on the weekend and invited people to come. Those quickly filled up and turned into 40 programs a year. That turned into a book, The Inner Matrix, which I wrote. And now we are where we are today. We’re you know, about 80,000 people have been through our programs and training to date.

Matt DeCoursey 04:05
So we’re just talking about personal development for high achievers. How’s that different from someone that hasn’t done what they want to do yet?

Joey Klein 04:16
I think the mechanics of it are the same because at the end of the day, when I look at mastery or developing oneself, it really comes down to focusing on three key aspects, you know, training, aligning and rewiring our emotions, our thoughts, strategies in our nervous system. And so somebody who’s just starting out, who you know, is just looking to feel a little better, is going to really train those aspects of self in the same way a high achiever does. The difference I find is what they manage. So when I train entrepreneurs and business owners, or high, you know, executives at a Fortune 100 or 500 company, the environment or the stress that they tend to manage is very different, right? The stress of pro-athlete managers is just very good. Right. And so they need a higher capacity over managing they’re, then maybe you know somebody who’s just managing the ins and outs of life.

Matt DeCoursey 05:10
So yeah, as I mentioned, before we recorded, I wrote a book called Balanced Me, which is subtitled, The Realist’s Guide to a Successful Life. And one of the things I learned because I’m coming up to 50 years old. I’m not old. I’m experienced at this point. But, you know, I learned along the way, and I have a whole chapter dedicated to this in the book, that the different personality styles that people have can often have a profound effect on the way that they approach everything, as well as the way you need to approach them. When working with them, did you find anything in your studies or your experience that required different approaches and different plans and schedules, and strategies based on the different personality types we all have? You know, what I found was that, that we all have a nervous system at the end of the day.

Joey Klein 05:56
And even though we have different personality types, from a nervous system standpoint, from a neurology and neurological standpoint, it’s the same, like the way I train my nervous system is going to be the same way you train your nervous system, and the same for everybody else. So what I love about, you know, what we do in the training that I’ve been up to for several decades now is if you do the training and the practice, you know, it’s going to work, it’s going to be effective, regardless of personality type. And so, as an example of that, right, everybody, although how we might process information or come to a decision may be a little bit different in terms of how we do that, we all have emotions, and we all make emotional choices and decisions as an example. People who think that they’re rational thinkers are rational decision-makers. You know, there’s simply not like underneath the unconscious drivers, there is emotion and feelings. And so, you know, I think most people today are very familiar with the concept of emotional intelligence, and how if we have this thing called Emotional Intelligence, it’s going to help us we’re going to succeed, we’re going to lead better lives. But then I find that oftentimes it falls down well, what’s the practical application of actual training, emotional intelligence and developing, you know, a high degree of emotional management skill if you will. And if we’re able to do that, then what we can do is essentially understand where our choices and decisions come from. And more importantly, change the driver behind those emotional decisions, whether it’s as simple as I’m gonna have, you know, water or soda for lunch, or it’s a little bit more dynamic. And you’re going Ha, you know, recently in the news, we’ve got, you know, a lot of my clients are managing layoffs. And it’s like, Man, how do I manage? You know, the reality of laying off 15,000 people and losing 80% of my team? Like, that’s another emotional event. But for those two events, should I have tea or water? Should I have soda or water for lunch? Or, you know, who do I lay off today? Both those decisions originate from the same core, which is emotion. And so if we are overwhelmed or anxious, or we feel insecure in a moment, you’re going to go for the soda, right? Quick, feel good. You’re going to make not great decisions, potentially, when you’re looking at how do I manage, you know, layoffs, as an example, if I feel confident, if I feel empowered, if I have a sense of optimism behind me, you know, I’m going to see the situation, the lay of the land very differently, I’m gonna fundamentally make different decisions. And so, you know, higher IQ and EQ really come from emotional management that comes through training. And over time, we can master this.

Matt DeCoursey 08:50
So you’ve identified that no matter what, as a guiding principle and your personal development, and I mean, is that just the same as, as straightforward as it sounds like without the effort without a little bit of self-discipline? Don’t you stand a chance?

Joey Klein 09:10
I think so for sure. You know, it’s like, you know, when when we commit to something, and we want to achieve something, whether it’s like, Man, I’m going to start a new diet program, or, you know, where I really learned this and took this on as a principle for myself was when I was a competitive martial artist. And my martial arts master actually had a rule for training. He had a few key rules where these were like, they were like gospel. You could not break these rules if he was going to train you. And one of them was you always show up to train. And so I trained an average of six days a week back then, and we might train four hours a day pretty consistently. And when he said there was no excuse not to show up to train, he literally meant that I thought it was just like this kind of cool idea. And I remember one time I was sick. It had a 102-degree temperature, and I tried to call into work. You know, he calls into work sick. Had to call in sick. And I remember calling him, and I go, sir, I can’t help me get into the 102-degree temperature. He’s like, Great, I’ll see you in an hour. And he knew I only lived about 15 minutes away. And in my mind, I’m thinking to myself, like, this guy is crazy, like, does he actually expect me to show up in this condition? And sure enough, I went. I showed up. I got through the training and actually performed pretty well. I didn’t feel great afterward. But I did it right. And I remember another time I was injured. I scraped the skin and the muscle tissue off the bottom of my foot. So I caught a board on it. And I thought to myself, Man, there’s no way I can train today. So I’m injured. And he’s just like, Well, you got a tape. And I was like, yeah, he’s like, Well, tape it. And I’ll see you in an hour. And I’m thinking to myself, I can’t even barely stand on my feet. How am I going to train? Sure enough, I show up, I train, and I get through it. And I remember we were doing grappling and you know, we’re doing an exercise, we had to run on the ball, your feet, and there’s just excruciating searing pain started staring at my leg for the first maybe four minutes of training, and then it just kind of went numb. And I got through my training. And I ended up becoming a pretty decent athlete and ended up winning three World Championships consecutively. And today, when I look at my ability to show up, you know, it’s like when I have 40 programs a year, and I’ve got several 100 people in the audience waiting for me to show up, I can’t call in sick. So there’s been times I’ve taught a program with a 104-degree temperature and performed right. And there’ve been times when, you know, I didn’t, I didn’t want to show up. There’s no part of me that felt like doing it. But I showed up. And it was the act of showing up that led to success. And the most important times I found to show up were when I didn’t want to, and I had resistance to it when I felt like I couldn’t. Those were when the breakthroughs tended to happen. And so many people that I train tend to lean out at the very moment where if they lean in, they’re going to have that breakthrough. And they’re going to see the outcome. And resilience, in the truest sense, is why high achievers become high achievers in the first place. They don’t start out that way. They just sort of develop an ability to show up that is abnormal to most.

Matt DeCoursey 12:14
Yeah, and I’ve spent a lot of time studying high achievers in these last few years. Yeah, give you a little bit of my background. I worked in music long before I did. Entrepreneur stuff, I worked in the music industry. And with that, I got access to a lot of interesting people. And a lot of practice oriented people like what you’re describing, from the whole point of training with martial arts, whether you’re a musician or a carpenter, or an entrepreneur or anything. The one thing I’ve learned is that success demands payment in advance. And those are the checks that you’re writing. And that was the premise of my book. I’ve been dude, I have been trying to prove this theory wrong for over a decade. And I can’t because you know, you look at these people that have you’re like, Wow, this person’s got world class talent, or this person’s a genius. And what you don’t see on the backside of that is 10,000 hours of reps, you know, and I describe self discipline as doing the things you need to do the most of the times that you want to do them the least, that’s just showing up in some regards. But you know, the thing that I found is that while there’s a healthy dose of achievement, there’s sometimes an unhealthy dose of obsession that goes with it. So you know, I’ll use an unnamed guitarist that many people may recognize. And I said, So what do you do with what you do all day? Well, I play guitar, like, all day, okay, what do you do when you’re not playing guitar? I’m thinking about playing guitar. And you know, the thing I’ve learned is that a lot of these people that are quote, high performers, they’re really just kind of obsessed and naughty with some of it, which is all right, I mean, they’re obviously doing something with it. But is it what have you found for these higher high performing people and can you prove the theory of success demanding payment in advance as being wrong?

Joey Klein 14:16
Yeah, I have. I’m right there with ya. Success definitely demands payment in advance. 100%. Right, right. Like across the board, whether it’s an athlete, whether it’s, you know, growing a business, just whether it’s a relationship, it just doesn’t matter. You got it, you got to do the time, so to speak, in regard to obsession. What I have found is that high achievers tend to focus on obsession, whereas most people are unconsciously obsessed. And so if we really look at how a lot of people drive their life, a lot of people are obsessed about TV, or they’re obsessed about their Facebook and their widgets on their phone. And if we look at the amount of time that, you know, an average person engages in something, we’re all engaging something and dedicating a lot of time to it, we’re not typically doing a lot of different things. And so what I find is that high achievers find a way to live, get leverage on themselves and manage their emotions to a degree where they can show up 90% of the time, right. And basically, channels are focused on that obsession in the reality that they know is going to ultimately produce the result they’re looking for. And I find that’s the big distinction. I think all people are obsessed, like I found all pupils as some people’s obsessions are getting in their way of what they want. And some people’s obsessions are producing what they want. And in the high achievers case, like, to your point, some people are obsessed to a point where they’re producing what they want in one space of life. But they’ve not necessarily trained the mental strategy or the fortitude to sort of redirect the focus and obsession, so that they’re producing what they want in all aspects of their life, finance, relationship, money and health.

Matt DeCoursey 16:10
Yeah, I found that my theory was that everything kind of breaks down into your personal, your professional, your physical life, and you have 100% of your own effort, where are you going to divide it up. And you mentioned, like class, I didn’t do courses. And so I’ve done a few of them now, not to the degree that you have, but then you always get the one person that. So I would start by writing down how you got 100 points, and write down where your efforts go. And then I always get one person who would put 110. Down, they’d be like, I give 110%. Like, I don’t know if you can do that. But part of me, what I found is that, if you ignore or over invest in one of those categories, personal, professional, physical, the world comes back to claim like it, there’s a balancing act that occurs. And it’s usually professional, because you get these people that 90% of their effort is professional, and then they end up with physical or personal issues. And you know, and it sounds kind of morbid, but it’s hard to run your business when you’re in the hospital, or when you’re going through a divorce or something like that. So there’s some very interesting balancers that come in. And by the way, you talk about the term obsession. I also found that there’s a whole lot, a lot , a whole, a lot of that’s an outside perspective, because I’ll ask people questions like, well, I asked you like, what’s the difference between genius and crazy?

Joey Klein 17:37
Focus, intentional focus is what I would say.

Matt DeCoursey 17:40
The best answer I’ve ever had is, who cares? Because someone said that to me, and I was like, What do you mean? Who cares? Well, that’s someone else’s opinion. So you can’t focus on that. I was like, alright, that’s a good one. But yeah, there’s all these borderline terms like what are you driven by? Are you obsessed? You know, like, all these, I just kind of depend on who you ask. As for asking, if you have been asking yourself how you’re going to find expert software developers just know that it doesn’t need to be that difficult, especially when you visit FullScale.io where you can build a software team quickly and affordably. Use the Full Scale platform to define your technical needs, and then see what available developers, testers, and leaders are ready to join your team. Go to FullScale.io. To learn more. While you’re down there clicking links, click that link to enter matrix systems and learn more about Joey Klein’s program. It’s clearly got a lot of interesting stuff going on. Yeah, all right. Speaking of interest, some people are interested in personal development, and some people aren’t. I think that’s the one thing I learned from putting out a book on the subject. You know, that at the same time, I find that the people that aren’t really interested in personal development kind of hat are kinda like the sour underachievers, that I run into that all that shit works, I don’t need any of that bla bla, bla, bla bla, and that kind of like, I find that they’re kind of ironically proving the point of why they do need it, why they’re, why they’re, you know, going through this. So when it comes to training people and people’s biggest problems are usually ourselves, how do you break through some of those layers and determine what you need to improve about yourself and what you I’d be okay with.

Joey Klein 19:25
For me, it’s all result driven, right? So if I have the results and the outcomes that I want in my life, and I can honestly and authentically say that I know I’m good. If there is an aspect of my life where I just fundamentally do not have the result I want. That has to do with who I am being with myself day in and day out, and the habits and the things that I’m doing day in and day out, right because our current results are the byproduct of our past behaviors and actions. And for me, pattern behavior starts with emotion, and then we think about stuff. And then we ended up, you know, taking action, we say things, we make choices, we make decisions, we do things. And then we repeat those same emotions, thoughts and actions, emotions, thoughts and actions again and again and again and again. And then just like anything has a compounding effect that we do over and over again, it turns into the result. And so our current results, or whatever our life looks like today, The Good, the Bad, you know, you know, whatever that may be, based on our opinion, is the byproduct of what we’ve done. And so if I look at an aspect of my life, and I’m like, Man, this is pretty cool. I really liked the results I’m getting here. You can reverse engineer that if you know how, and you can go. Oh, it is driven by these emotions, these thoughts, and then these actions that I took consistently over time. And now I rendered this outcome, this result. Same thing, if I got a result, I know like in my life, I can reverse engineer that if I know how, and I can go, oh, well, I’m feeling this way. I’m making these choices, decisions. And, and this is how I’m thinking about it. These are the actions I’m taking. And this is what I do again, and again and again. And it’s rendering these results. And so for me, the art of personal development is really just the, in the truest sense to actually learn to be self aware and break ourselves down and go, Oh, here is the way I’m driving, and why it’s producing this result. And then if we get clear on the result we want, we alter the way of driving and who we are being with ourselves and the actions we take on a daily basis to produce the new results and outcomes that we want. Like, I know I oversimplify that. But that really is what personal development is, in the truest sense.

Matt DeCoursey 21:37
When you’re talking about the results, the results can be positive or negative. And that’s part of why the martial arts instructor wouldn’t let you call in because you call in one day, it’s easier to call in the next day. And now you have a different kind of habit forming. And you’re still going to end up with a result no matter what you try. And what you do you end up with a result. You know, and whether that’s the outcome you want it or not. Sometimes it’s up to you. And sometimes it’s not. I’m not a believer in luck. You know, I think that people say, Well, what about the guy that won the lottery? Well, he prepared by buying a ticket and the opportunity came up when they had a drawing. Yeah. Oh, what about? I mean, there’s a lot I mean, yeah, and sure, there are some fringe things that require maybe a little more explanation. You know, you talked about so many things I liked, I liked the way you put the emotional side of things, because, alright, such a touchy subject for some people, but you could look at someone that might drink too much. And you talked about having that issue earlier. I’ve been through that myself. You know, I’ve gone through a lot of different stuff. But the binary answer is that as you drank, or you don’t drink, it’s all the things that are above it in the funnel. That complicates stuff, that’s our own emotions, our most our own situations. But, you know, I don’t think you’re oversimplifying anything, because really, in the end, it’s like you do or you don’t. Now I’ve got a bunch of people getting really shitty with me about this job. And they’re like, Yeah, but there’s so much more to consider. I’m like, Yeah, I know. But you gotta get through that. I like the reverse engineering comparison. I use that a lot. I tell people that if you want to get a result, no matter how big or small it is, start with where you want to be. And you kind of work backwards. I think one of the things you talked about the neurological components and our own thought process, you know, there are things that your mind just can’t wrap itself around. So break up these tasks into like people, I want to lose 50 pounds, you don’t lose 50 pounds all at once, man, you do it technically like ounces and calories at a time. So your mind doesn’t really wrap yourself around that kind of progress, that kind of that kind of achievement, or you know, one of the biggest goals people have is to buy a home. Buying a home is not a singular task. There’s like 100 100 things that you have to do along the way. So if you can take the time that you’re spending, you mentioned obsession, alright, so gaming is one of like, oh my god, the people who play frickin video games, you could just about have a master’s degree in the amount of time that so many people spend playing video games. And so yet learn how to replace that the low value activity was something that moves you towards your goals and any action that moves you towards your goals or even and hopefully even more than one of your goals is high value. Low value is junk that’s watching TV that’s playing video games. It’s getting drunk and that by the way can take a couple of days. It’s obvious that you do the best? Did you make the best decisions you’d ever made when you were drinking? Because I don’t think any of us do, right?

Joey Klein 24:54
No, no, I almost landed myself in prison several times. Because of these decisions I made when I was not in a sober state for sure. That is not good decision making, for sure.

Matt DeCoursey 25:07
So you often get to clean up the mess afterward and right back to like you said to focus and if you’re focused on, if your life is busy focusing on cleanup efforts, never really given time to build anything cool out of it. So, yeah, I mean, all right. So let’s just say like, anyone that’s listening, and it’s like, okay, these guys have been successful. They’ve written books, they’ve started companies, they’ve done this. But what about me? Where do I start? Where does anybody start?

Joey Klein 25:44
When it comes to personal development, and for me, it, it starts with the commitment to the outcome, you know, a lot of people, they, they look at me today, or they’ll meet me at a at a program that I’m facilitating, right, and they see me on stage, and there’s several 100 people they are whatever it is, right. And they have this idea of who I am today. And it’s almost like disbelief, or they forget, that didn’t start here. Right, I really started, you know, when I started, I didn’t have a trust fund, I didn’t have a fluence around me, my family was not wealthy, right, our family vacations every year, were going to the plot of land that my family lived on. And everybody lived in the trailer houses, right? That they could because that’s how everybody could afford to live and that kind of thing. And so basic needs were met. But that was about it. Like, we didn’t really have much beyond and above and beyond that, like I never took vacations, and never stayed in a nice hotel growing up of any kind. What I mean by nice hotel is like, I remember one time staying in a hotel, it was a Motel Six. And that was the only time I even remember staying in a hotel when I was a kid. Just because we couldn’t we didn’t do those things. Right. And, and I was surrounded by, you know, individuals who are not emotionally intelligent, a lot of fighting, a lot of anger, a lot of violence, that kind of stuff. And so I didn’t have the environment that would dictate I would be who I am today. But I remember the moment that really the journey began was the moment I just decided and made a commitment to the outcome of living differently than I was right. Hey, I want to know peace or happiness, I want to be successful, I want to figure out how to make relationships work, it starts with the commitment to the outcome. And then the second commitment is okay, what am I going to stop doing, that’s never going to produce that outcome. Before I knew what to do to produce the results I have today, I just started looking around me kind of like your point about drinking, and I went man, drinking and partying and the drugs are producing nothing but chaos and pain. And so one on one for two years I stopped doing that, even though I don’t really know what else to do yet. And I’m just gonna stop doing that. And then it was like, Man, when I’m around these people, I make bad choices. I’m gonna stop hanging around those people. And I made a lot of choices to stop doing stuff. Because I didn’t know what else to do. But it was very clear. Like, if I keep doing this, I’m gonna keep getting the result. So I think a lot of people go, oh, man, what do I? What am I supposed to do? And I think the answer is supposed to be there on how to bridge the gap. But I find you got to first create a route, you got to first go, what am I doing, that’s never going to get this result. I say I’m committed to it, we got to stop doing that. And whether you call it the universe, or maybe it’s our own intuition, we start to pay attention to different things. And all of a sudden, new options start to occur organically. And then it’s just a matter of going man that’s different. And it has the potential to take me where I want to go, I’m going to invest in that thing. And it really is just doing that a little bit more every single day. Until you know, some time compounds, and you start getting some cool results.

Matt DeCoursey 28:41
You know, one of the hardest things is often those people in your own family.

Joey Klein 28:46
Sure. Yeah, a lot of times they start with family and friends, right? Like the people that we think should be our cheerleaders and should be there. Like, I remember when I told my parents, I was gonna go study with my first mentor and I was moving out of the state. I was quitting school. A lot of curse words came out of my mom’s mouth. She was really displeased. My dad went silent. Whenever my dad went silent. I knew that he was really upset. He’s really angry, you know, disappointed. My best friends were like, What do you mean, you’re a moving man, they were super angry with me. But I was in an environment that was so dysfunctional. I knew if I didn’t just completely extricate myself, that I was gonna go nowhere and I was gonna get caught back in there. So I remember when I first started to make new decisions and move toward a different reality that was good for me. I had no support. And I just was committed to the outcome that I knew was important to me. Today, I’ve got some family that supports me but even today, I got a lot of family that, you know, doesn’t understand what I do and you got to be okay with that at the end of the day.

Matt DeCoursey 29:52
Yeah, for me personally, and this has gone on for a very long time. You got to get away from people that are dragging you down. And, you know, I certainly am not the inventor of this theory. But you know, many people believe that you are the sum or the average of the five people that you spend the most time around. And I’ve gotten real picky about that, you know, there’s some, I just limit myself, I’ve created kind of a self defense mechanism, getting me away from negative people. And there’s a lot of them, man, there really are a lot of them. But you know, people that are negative or sow seeds of doubt, are without a doubt going to be a tether to your ability to ascend to the places that you want to get to. And, you know, not not only do those people have the ability to slow that progress, they can just knock you out of the sky as you’re rising. And I described so many people like that, as you know, that deflating feeling. And if you’re around people that are constantly deflating, you have to do something to change that, because it’s just like, I don’t know, unless you like constantly running, steep inclines. And there are a few people that like that next, last last I checked, though, it’s a lot easier to kind of cruise on the bike, once you get over the top of the mountain. He’s speaking of the mountain. And I think one of the more profound things that someone had said to me when I was younger, they said, it’s trying to do all this stuff. And I was just trying to get it all done myself and someone said, you no matter what’s easier, try to climb the mountain by yourself or ask those that are on top to pull you up. And ever since that I spent a lot of time looking up and trying to find people that had done the things that I wanted to do, or were good at certain things. And I just went out of my way to ask them to talk to me. And honestly, some of them ignored me and probably didn’t. And I found that there is a level of knowledge transfer, especially amongst entrepreneurs. I know in some industries, you talk about obsessed, I watch a bunch of gold mining shows on TV, and I actually watch it because I find I find it to be interesting, how much effort energy and commitment these people and risk these people go through to find a piece of gold that’s like the size of a grain of sand. Right. But you know, but another thing too is like, if there’s no gold in the ground, you’re not going to find it. So you know, like, anyway, you get into this, getting into this discipline. And you know, the gold miners don’t like to share their secrets with each other, which is strange entrepreneurs do. I know that there is. And I’d like to hear your take on this. Because when I was younger people took an interest in me. And I was just like, why does this person even care? You know, why are they interested in what I do? And I think that along the way, a lot of them saw a younger version of themselves with me. But I found that the easier I made it for people to help me, the more help I got, the more I asked people, the more help I got. And the more I appreciated the help, the more help I got. Did you have a similar path with people? It sounds like you had some mentors along the way that took an interest in you.

Joey Klein 33:19
Yeah, I think that some people have this idea that, like this idea of being self made. And I’ve never met a self made person, quote-unquote, not not somebody who’s created something really outstanding, like, like, every single person I’ve ever met, or, you know, had the opportunity to interact with. And I asked him like, like, like, how did you get here, everybody had somebody that they were grateful to, or that they acknowledged as a key reason they were where they were, and I’m definitely in that camp, like, like, I would not be who I am, are capable of the things that I’m capable of, if it wasn’t for some really extraordinary people and mentors, who were willing to take me under their wing, and just really, you know, teach me what they knew, for the sake of it, because I didn’t have anything to give, especially when my first mentors took me under their wings. And they were just happy to serve for the sake of service. And I think that’s it’s a counterintuitive, what I find is that the most successful people in the world, the highest achieving people in the world, are the Most Gracious, and they are the most generous and they are, they’re willing to give up their time, to places that are willing to invest in that knowledge. And that time being given, they’re not going to waste their time with somebody that doesn’t want to learn and grow and leverage what they’re giving. But they are more generous than anybody you’ll ever meet. And that is why they’ve gotten where they are. And I find that it’s a fulfillment thing, like individuals who are most fulfilled are giving back and they’re contributing, and they’re supporting the growth of others. And that has a cyclical effect, where when we are giving and contributing to other people, it’s almost like you’re making communication and You’re saying I’m ready to receive. It’s very counterintuitive, where so many people think, man, if I give too much I’m gonna run out, right. And those individuals struggle, those individuals I find, never achieve high high success unless they can get get beyond that space, thinking that things are limited. And when we go to the place of like, man, things are not limited, I can give of myself freely and fully, and I can contribute to the success and growth of other people for the sake of it, and because I better another human beings life, and I get to see them grow and change and evolve, that has a way of not only coming back to you, but I think the act of that really does declare, that you are aligned with receiving it’s almost like I think you said earlier about balancing how, you know, the universe tends to balance things out in some way. And you’re referring to this idea of like, like, Man, if I really achieve business, and I ignore my body, my body’s going to let me know about it, and then it’s going to hinder my business, right. And I think the universe inherently somehow knows, this is my belief, or my experience is that if it knows that I’m out there contributing to the hole, it’s going to support me to continue to contribute to the whole for the well being of people of the group of community. And if I’m, you know, a hindrance on that the universe, you know, same same or other people or communities tend to know that, and I’m going to get isolated a little bit.

Matt DeCoursey 36:25
You know, you mentioned the self made thing, and the reason that’s a myth is the people that you’re looking at, they are, quote, self made, have built something that’s bigger than they are, and you inherently need other people to do it. Yeah, there’s just that I think, one of the, that you talk about these, these kind of obvious statements, all you can do is all you can do, so you got to get people around you that can be good supporting cast members, and, and also, you know, hold you accountable, I think that you get back into that, like, I published a reel on Facebook a couple of weeks ago, talking about how all star companies have all star rosters, because, you know, if you these All Star People bring each other up, and and you know, hold each other accountable. And I think you get the right people around you, no one wants to be the worst player on the team. So you know, you have this way of kind of bringing things up. You know, there’s one more thing and I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring this up, I think when it comes to personal development or change, you know, first off, change is difficult. Change is difficult for everybody. It is easier for some and almost impossible for others, but still difficult for all of us. I think the one thing that we’re speaking of is myths. And I think a myth that so many people get caught up in is the right time myth. It’s not the right time for me to change this. It’s not the right time for me to start a business, it’s not the right time for me to start a diet it’s not the right time for me to bla bla, bla, your center around if you catch yourself saying that you’re lying to yourself there the right time never comes I can’t look back at ensure sometimes maybe better than others. But if you’re waiting for the exact right time, you’re going to find that you’re probably going to wait a lifetime. Because that really is just a way that I find that people justify why they’re not doing what they want to do or getting what they want to get.

Joey Klein 38:27
Yeah, I agree 100% The only right time is right now to move toward the reality that you want to create. Because the only time we actually have right, it’s interesting because like, when I wonder if you were to give somebody and I often ask people a question like, Man, if I gave you $10,000, you know, what would you do with that? And most people, the first thing they would do if I just gave them $10,000, is they would stop to consider what they’re going to do with it. Right? They would go hmm, what am I going to spend it on? Should I invest in this? Are there people I want to give it to, they would think about how am I going to leverage this resource’s money, but you give somebody 10,000 hours of time, and very few people stop to really consider how they’re managing and spending their time or how they’re investing in. But the average person goes through a day. And they could just burn time without even thinking about it. Like you’re mentioning, you know, video games, right? If they stopped to consider what this investment of time is going to render me it’s like throwing $100 dollar bills just down the toilet. You know what I’m saying and just flushing. And nobody would ever do that because they see that there’s this inherent value in money. But what I find is that the average person relates to times though it’s infinite and not that important. And therefore they tend to waste a lot of it simply because we don’t stop to go wait a minute, how am I managing this time? How am I investing in it? And if I do this thing, 30 minutes every day, what’s that going to produce? What outcome does that create? If I do this two hours a day some people play video games or watch TV four hours a night is the average a person watches television ever needed it It’s like man, like break it down to one hour a night, take three hours to start developing a talent in the space that you want to produce some great result in, start a new business or whatever it might be, you know, get healthy and start studying nutrition, start studying, you know, exercise, things like this. And think of time as a resource that you’re investing because the reality is, the highest performers in the world know that their time is more valuable than anything else, because you can’t get more back. And we all are alike no matter if you’re a billionaire, or you, you know, are in poverty, those two individuals have the same amount of time, we all have a clicking clock, like maybe we make it to 100. But nobody right now gets to see 300 Because they’re wealthy. And so the one thing, the one equalizer is truly time and the way we invest that the way we relate to it determines different outcomes. All high achievers are immediate action takers, like if there’s something that they see they could do to better their life or they see an opportunity, they do not stop and sit on that for a week for a day for a month. And think about it. They are executed right away. Whereas people who tend to, you know, answer to the same day again and again and again, and their life doesn’t really evolve and change. They tend to relate to the reality of time as though they have as much of it as they want.

Matt DeCoursey 41:18
Yeah, I totally agree with you, man. I totally agree with you. Alright, so here we are. We’re at the end of another episode of Startup Hustle more, it’s about time for the founders freestyle or Joey are gonna go over? Well, you never know what could happen. Maybe he’ll say maybe he’ll wrap. Who knows, maybe we’ll wrap. I don’t think that’ll probably happen. But I leave. I’m gonna leave it an open world of possibilities. What else is possible as finding and hiring software engineers, testers and leaders when you go to FullScale.io, where we have the people in the platform to help you build and manage a team of experts, all you need to do is go to FullScale.io? answer a few questions, let our platform match you up with our fully vetted, highly experienced team of software engineers, testers and leaders. At Full Scale. We specialize in building long term teams that work only for you to learn more when you go to FullScale.io once again with me today was Jeremy Klein, CEO and founder of inner matrix systems, specializing in personal development, personal training and coaching. Go to enter matrix systems.com There’s a link for that in the show notes. Joey likes looking back, we went over a lot of stuff today. What stood out? Or what or whatever. Do you want to wrap up?

Joey Klein 42:34
Yeah, happy to be called once said, I think it was interesting. Not rapping. I’m not a rapper. I’ll probably still do it some other day.

Matt DeCoursey 42:44
I need 5000 hours of practice. And I’m still gonna probably be bad.

Joey Klein 42:51
Yeah, for sure. For sure. As we were going back and forth, I think a couple things that just occurred to me was, number one, get clear on the outcome that one wants to commit to, like commit to that result, and in the truest sense. And don’t wait. Start moving toward that reality today. And it can really be as simple as starting with, well, what am I doing currently? That’s never going to produce that result. And let’s, let’s start taking some time from there and create an opening to start investing in new things, because so many people I hear say, I just don’t have time to do X, I don’t have time to do why you don’t have time to not make time. And the way we made time is to do a little assessment and go, wow, what is it that I’m currently investing in? That we’ll never render new outcomes and results that I really want to have in my life. And let’s borrow the time from there. Let’s take a half hour a day or an hour a day, stop that and start executing in a new way, with a trust that it’s going to occur and it’s going to happen, and do so by showing up, right? Like, commit to showing up that half hour that hour every day that’s going to produce, or you’re going to build a skill that produces a new outcome and do it every single day. I don’t miss it, and see where it takes you.

Matt DeCoursey 44:07
You know, I think Nike got it right when they said just do it. You know, and they’re good. And I quote Nike a lot on that, and because it’s right, you know, you just gotta get up and do it. And I think a couple of things that stood out and related them to my own situation is, you know, sometimes people are like, Oh, dude, your business has been successful. Your podcast is off the charts, blah, blah, blah, you’re so lucky. Now trust me, it was many, many years in the making to do that. But you know, there, I think for all of us like there are still levels that I’m trying to get to, there are still things that I’m trying to do, things I’m trying to understand, battles I’m trying to win battles I’m trying not to lose and with that like No one’s perfect with any of this stuff. Like, I mean, my history and my timeline are riddled with errors and mistakes. That’s part of what you learn from the part of what you try to figure out along the way. I think that the conversation today about reverse engineering is like, make it simple. You’re like, Yeah, but I’m going to be missing steps. We all are. We all are, and there are things that we figure out along the journey and along the way that we didn’t even anticipate we needed to figure out and learn. And I think that’s what makes it fun. You know, find other people to surround you that are motivated, that want positive outcomes and change, like, be a can-do person, not a camp-do person. I think if you look for telltale signs of, well, that’s always the way we’ve done it. We’re waiting for the right time. These aren’t good things. These aren’t things that innovative companies, people, and leaders say, you know, like constantly looking for a change. I drive people that work with me frickin nuts because I’m always looking, I’m like, we could probably do this better, faster, cheaper. And then another thing, too, is like with time, like time is finite, you’re gonna get so much of it. If you have a solution for the 28-hour day, I’ll find you will become the richest person in the world because no one can make more of it. So choose how you use it, learn to say no to things, and understand what opportunity cost is like. When I choose one thing, you’re giving up another thing, and remember, the more things you say yes to, it’s just more weight that I add to the backpack that you have to carry around with you everywhere you go. And that stuff can weigh you down. So sometimes, the best thing you can do is say no, and sometimes the best decision you can make is to stop doing something, especially when it comes to efficiency. Whenever we look at a process at Full Scale, we say do we even need to do this at all? And a lot of you know, most of the time, we’re like, yeah, we do. Okay, all right. But a lot of times, we’re like, no, why are we doing it? You know, I have a very, you know, I don’t have enough time, but I have a fun story about an old process we have in a business that was prevented that was there to prevent loss. Well, we sat down and did the math on it. We were spending four times more preventing the loss than the cost of the loss when it actually occurred. So stop doing it. We were actually losing four times more trying to prevent a 1x loss if and when it ever occurred. But this comes from a constant state of review and being okay with change. Look, it’s scary for everyone. It’s different for everyone. But man, it sure does feel good when you get a ride. Hey, make sure you read, go to innermatrixsystems.com, and check out Joey’s books and classes and coaching, and stuff like that if you’re having a hard time. You know, I work with a coach. I have a mindfulness coach. That’s where I’m at. People like, oh, I bet you’re an ideas guy. What’s that? Like? I’m like, it sucks. Like, what do you mean? I’m like, my brain sounds like a blender full of bottle caps on high on a lot of days. So we all have something that we need to figure out. So just do it. Get busy figuring it out. Joey, I’ll catch up with you down the road, my friend. Thanks for all the wise advice and input today.

Joey Klein 48:29
Thanks. It’s great being here, man.