The Power of Vulnerability

Hosted By Andrew Morgans


See All Episodes With Andrew Morgans

David Chorpenning

Today's Guest: David Chorpenning

Author and Founder - Beyond 55

Manitou Springs, CO

Ep. #1170 - The Power of Vulnerability

This episode of Startup Hustle is part of the all-week series of the powers you can channel into your company. Andrew Morgans and David Chorpenning, Author and Founder of Beyond 55, talk about the power of vulnerability in elevating your company. They also discuss the need to set intentions to achieve personal and business goals. David highlights these concepts in his books Everyday Visionary and The Field Guide for What’s Next. Listen to them share why taking risks and being vulnerable is essential.

Covered in this Episode

Most people get anxious when they find themselves in a vulnerable position, especially as they get older. Beyond 55 helps them explore the power of vulnerability.

Listen to Andrew and David discuss how emotional IQ sets leaders apart and the importance of mental and emotional health. David describes his entrepreneurial journey and the importance of intention. They segue into the impact of vulnerability, the birthday wish process, and more.

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Do you want to explore the journey toward the intention? Join the conversation in this Startup Hustle episode now.


  • Emotional IQ is what sets leaders apart (1:19)
  • The importance of taking care of your mental and emotional health (1:47)
  • David’s intentional entrepreneurial journey (4:41)
  • Entrepreneurship and the importance of intention (8:31)
  • Journey toward the intention (14:00)
  • Appreciative inquiry (18:27)
  • The impact of vulnerability (23:39)
  • The birthday wish process (34:11)
  • Take the risk to share your intentions (36:39)
  • Write it down (42:44)
  • Insecurities and communication skills (45:16)
  • David’s plan for his personal and business life (50:00)
  • Where to find David and his books (52:22)
Learn the Ropes of Building a Business

Key Quotes

It’s not been the journey toward the intention that’s been the harder part of entrepreneurship for me….I set a big goal up there; then I get it. And then I have to have another one. I need another one.…it doesn’t have to be like an accomplishment or anything. It’s just like, What is my why?… I need something that’s like, got some passion mine, it got some why behind it. And that’s what motivates me. I’m very ambitious. I’m very driven. But if I don’t have that intention, it’s like, I have none of my superpowers.

– Andrew Morgans

I have weaved in intention in that since then in everything. My counseling practice was definitely about that. I mean, I would always first say bad individual or a couple. Okay, what do you expect to have happened as a result of our time together? Start with there….And then it’s a question of what do I do next? It can be a little bit of an Oh gosh, I made that happen. Now, what do I do next? And I see, and I know that that the process that we’ve dialed into, it’s called appreciative inquiry.

– David Chorpenning

I’m kind of creating this movement. Birthday wish changing, changing situations. So, you know, you go to a birthday party, and they set the cake in front of somebody….And what do people say? Make a wish, you know, think about something you’d really like to have happen. But…[d]on’t tell anybody about it. Well, if you think about it, here you have all the people that really care about you, would support you, and would help you make that intention happen. So I encourage people when they’re in that process to say, Hey, how about if you do share it because we’re here to help you with this.

– David Chorpenning

I think as long as you keep your intention right, the rest of it can kind of work itself out.… Like, if I’m getting on a call with a client that’s upset, right? Is it my intention to establish our boundaries as a team because they were disrespecting my team? Is my intention to keep them as a client? Is my intention to just like hear them and work it out? You know, what’s my intention going in? What’s their intention? Their intention is just to point fingers and blame. We’re gonna get nowhere, you know.

– Andrew Morgans

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Rough Transcript

Following is an auto-generated text transcript of this episode. Apologies for any errors!

Andrew Morgans  00:00

What’s up, Hustlers? Welcome back. This is Andrew Morgans, founder of Marknology. Here as today’s hosts of Startup Hustle. Today’s episode of Startup Hustle is powered by Full Scale that I owe. Hiring software developers is difficult, Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably and has the platform to help you manage that team visit to learn more. All this week on Startup Hustle, we’re talking about various powers you can channel into your company. Yesterday, Matt Watson talked with his guests about the power of AI. And today we’re gonna be talking all about vulnerability and the power of vulnerability. Today’s guest David, welcome to the show.


David Chorpenning  00:39

Thank you.


Andrew Morgans  00:40

You’re welcome. I was gonna take attempt at your last name, and I got chicken right at the end. So


David Chorpenning  00:45

It’s the silent “H”. So it’s “corpenning.”


Andrew Morgans  00:47

Corpenning. Awesome. Thank you so much. Didn’t want to butcher it. But super happy to have you on the show calling in from Colorado. Specific area?


David Chorpenning  00:57

Manitou Springs.


Andrew Morgans  00:59

Manitou Springs. Okay. I know it’s important. It’s like being in Kansas City and people saying, Oh, you’re from Kansas? And you’re like, no, I’m on the Missouri side. Okay. Like, it doesn’t really matter to anyone, not there. But to the people that are there, there’s quite a bit of difference. So yeah, we’ve absolutely get a


David Chorpenning  01:14

Little historic hamlet at the foot of Pikes Peak. So it’s a pretty unique little spot. Yeah.


Andrew Morgans  01:19

No, I totally get it. Honestly, the same thing in Miami, like when you’re not from Miami haven’t been there, you’re like, that’s Miami. And they want to tell, you know, it’s Fort Lauderdale. Quite a bit, quite a bit of difference. You know, look, for me, they’re all 1000 miles away. So, no semantics, but honestly, super excited about today’s topic. It’s something that’s honestly, very dear to my heart and intention. I’ve been, you know, working on mental health and intentionality, manifestation, vulnerability, these types of things, at least, with therapy for going on for years now, as far as professional side, but I’m, on my own side, just really digging into books, really, you know, trying to supplement what I’ve been learning there with my sessions and add to that. So, you know, I really believe that emotional intelligence as a business leader is, is one of the most important skills. Logic is important. You know, intelligence is important. Emotional IQ, and all the things that go with it are really the what separates the best leaders, you know, from the rest. So, I would love to just start the show out in true to form, just getting to know, you know, a little bit about yourself. You know, what got you to the point of being an author and wanting to write about this and really dig in and share it with the rest of us. You said a lot of like, it was your, you know, your past experience that brought you, you know, to some of this in the importance of it. Where does your, where does your story begin, David?


David Chorpenning  01:47

And I have to commend you for the fact that you said all that about your own mental and emotional health, because, as we were saying, before the show started, everybody, pretty much everybody needs some degree of it. So the fact that you’ve done, the work that you’ve done is to be commended, especially in your mid 30s.


Andrew Morgans  03:08

So thank you, I needed I needed it, and probably will just keep going for a long time. Yeah, so talk about a little bit of help, sometimes some of us need a lot of help. You know, and growing a business isn’t for the faint of heart, like, you know, especially if you’re bootstrapping, and you’re trying to scale and you don’t know exactly what you’re doing. It can make someone that’s feeling healthy, all of a sudden, happy feeling so healthy, you know, so I love talking about it just as a, if I can be an example, you know, anyone else thinking about it, or whatever, I still feel very much like a strong person, a mentally strong person, I’ve been through a lot of stuff, and, but it’s changed my entire world, like it’s changed. You know, I used to have bad sleep for my entire life. I’ll leave it at that. And, you know, through therapy and mental work and things like that I actually get rest now. So, for me, it was a catalyst moment you talk about these moments that make you like, want to dig in or jump, jump in further. And for me, probably now, two and a half years ago, I had that moment, where I just started getting sleep when I used to not get sleep before. And for, you know, my entire life. So it was like, that was a gift. And that was what motivated me. It’s kind of like getting progress in the gym, you know, you, you start to see the muscles a little bit or someone compliments you. I was like, wow, have you been working out and all of a sudden, you’re just motivated to get back in there, you know, so, thank you for that. And if I can share that with anyone, I think all of us need need some of that here and there, you know, different levels, but 100% One of the best decisions I’ve made in a long time.


David Chorpenning  04:41

Congratulations and, and, you know, I think we one of the first contributions that Colton made to this book, as he said, I wrote two previous books one is called, Everyday Visionary. The guide to the practical life you desire practical life, right? And, and then I did The Field Guide for What’s Next. And it’s a very practical approach to creating some what’s next intentions in important areas of one’s life. And Colton said that we have to tee this up about our life, we have to be vulnerable, we have to show that, you know, it’s been a journey for us. So, we’re not those people that are gonna say, oh, you know, we just use intention. It’s processing. We’re rockstars. We were, you know, we’re flying around on G-sevens and the whole thing. So, he was right on. And I think he comes through in the, in the first part of the book, he tells his story, I tell my story, we will have to get into all that. But I will make the part that’s helpful. Since this is a show that is geared towards entrepreneurs, that I can talk a little bit about my entrepreneurial intention journey. And for me, that started, I would say, up until my early 20s, I was definitely not very intentional I, I took a lot of side paths and ended up having to go into the Marine Corps spent two years, barely two years in there. As an entrepreneur, people can probably relate working for somebody else, especially, you know, the Marine Corps might be a little challenging. So I got out of there. And in my early 20s, I started to think about so what do I want to do that could make a difference. And back in the day, back in the early 70s, people that sell real estate, they were helping people to find or rent their shelter. And to me, that’s like one of the top three things in clothing right? Now. It’s health, health care, sort of thing, too. So I thought I had a noble profession there. So I started out in the 20s. And what comes with that early 20s, is that there were a lot of motivational speakers that somehow always targeted salespeople, and they loved real estate salespeople. So people like Zig Ziglar, and Earl Nightingale, and there’s a guy that’s still around today, Tony Robbins. And they would put on the seminars, and and you know, just talk about the importance of setting goals. And if you set goals and do a good job of it, you’ll make a lot of money and go solar houses. So I was really, that didn’t suck me that idea, initially, because I didn’t really need to do do that. But it did. It did gave me some impetus to create a financial independence intention. And so at 23, I sat down I said, Okay, how much passive income would I need in 10 years, to be able to basically do whatever I wanted. And, and I came up with a number, which at the time, it was $3,000 a month that I can live very comfortably. Health tourism, that number has changed as you can imagine, 1970 I didn’t factor in kids. So anyway, I did that at 23, financial independent by 33. And by the time I was 26, I require 13 rental units, which isn’t a lot, but back then when you’re 23 years old, it it felt pretty significant. And so with that success, I decided to create two other intentions. I grew up in Akron, Ohio.


Andrew Morgans  08:28

I was gonna ask was this in Colorado or in somewhere else?


David Chorpenning  08:31

Right, Akron, Ohio. Okay. Yeah. And so I create two other intentions, I, I’m very much an outdoors person, even even back in my 20s. And so Ohio, for me just didn’t offer the kind of dramatic outdoor setting that I that I create. So create an intention to move someplace out west where I could have that experience. Not to say that I also wanted someplace a lot sunnier. And, you know, I think we sit at about 300 plus days a year of sunshine, and it’s a lot less in Ohio. So I set those two intent, I set that intention. And then also I said I want to get into significant relationships. So by 26, I felt I was ready for that. And in a very short period of time that happened. I met my now current wife, I’m 44 years old. Congratulations and thank you, and in moved out west to two Springs, Colorado. So what that did for me is those successes that I had early on, really hooked me on the idea of creating intention. And I know that none of those things magically appeared my wife didn’t come fully out of the sky. Magically I didn’t find mentor Springs, Colorado and all these properties is probably the head didn’t it just but I came to recognize that it did provide me a lens to look at all the opportunities that were being presented and say no, not that one. That one, not that one. So, with that confidence, I have pretty much been using intention now my whole life. And I think, for entrepreneurs, it’s, it’s a pretty easy sell to say, Okay, you have us into entrepreneurs use intention, their, their first thought, when they’re going to start something is okay, what do I want to create a product or a service. And so that is the first thing they create that intention. And then the one thing about entrepreneurs, typically you have to write a business. So you have to write something up, so that you can talk to other guys,


Andrew Morgans  10:44

yeah, your guide book about it or whatever your


David Chorpenning  10:47

guy, but you have to bring employees on, you have to maybe bring on another partner, you have to convince a bank, you know that this is all good. So odd to in years have have already grounded in the concept of of using intention. And I would say what I’d like to encourage is, you’ve used it there and that part of your life, consider using it in other important areas of your life.


Andrew Morgans  11:11

I love that. And I have a little bit to add in regards to for me just sharing where mine was. It started. For me, my intention has always been like, small, you know, not these big grandiose ideas. I dream much bigger now than I did when I got started with my business. Because I know it’s possible I use that limiting belief, like, you know, I just had a lot of limiting belief, I think, and I didn’t see the life I have now for myself at that time. I saw I was going through a divorce at 25. I found myself going through a divorce of 25 years old, I was heartbroken. Never imagined that for myself, you know, wasn’t that was not my intention for sure. You know, and as as as resetting it just became, okay, well, then my first intention is to get out of debt, get out of debt and take care of myself financially, like financial freedom. And that was that was the ultimate goal. Okay, what does that look like? Okay, so it was it was a side hustle, it turned into a much bigger thing. But the intention was simply I hate driving tour, it was an hour each way 55 minutes. And it was the worst part of my day just started and ended kind of it was just traffic stop, like traffic, you know, the drive back then I wasn’t into podcasts at the time, I wasn’t like, I didn’t value my time as much as I do now. And so I wasn’t like maximizing every minute, it was simply trying to stay safe on the road. And, you know, worried about being five minutes late, you know, all the way there to work for an hour if I was late, or something like that, and getting written up about it, or, you know, those types of stresses. And my intention was, I want to, you know, take care of myself financially had a day job. And on the side, I’m gonna, like do this thing to try to get you know, myself secure. And what are the ways that I can remove this, what I felt like was the negative part of my day that I hated. And that was before 2020. And before those things where it was like, working from home was not really as common, or having a job or didn’t have to drive an hour. And so my intention was, get out of that commute. And, you know, get some security in the bank when I didn’t have it. And what was the one thing I could control when I was going through that divorce was like, okay, I can focus on this was 2013.


David Chorpenning  13:46

And at what point did you kind of cross over and say, Okay, let’s that gave I’ve made precinct a significant process progress, or, or if


Andrew Morgans  13:54

it was, it was a year and a half later.


David Chorpenning  13:58

It’s pretty fast.


Andrew Morgans  14:00

I I started reading a blog that said instead of like, you know, picking up a side job at a bar, because I bartended, a blonde shirt, done different jobs through college, things like that, you know, extra money, the nights or weekends, because I was going through a breakup didn’t have anything to do was working a nine to five as an ecommerce manager, what do I do with my free time I’ll go work, okay, I’m good at this. And I was reading some financial blogs that were like, double down on what you’re passionate about at work or like what you think you might do or whatever, and I didn’t have dreams of a business at that time, but I was loving ecommerce. And so I was like, Well, can I just go find some more e commerce gigs? I didn’t know about gig, the gig economy or that that was out there. I started reading and I started getting these projects like off these like consultant sites Upwork Elance, or little things like that. And that’s, that’s ultimately how I find how I started getting these projects on the side. It turned into enough to pay my bills. You know, for a year and a half. If I was making in Kansas City, Missouri was a dude used to living like a band guy and very frugal, making a little over six figures with a very lean lifestyle, and that was enough to be not just helped me get out of debt, but think about okay, if I let this job go, will I have enough to be on my own? You know,


David Chorpenning  15:21

And I’m curious, have you now done this in other areas?


Andrew Morgans  15:25

I always Yes, sir. And I, and I didn’t get fully rocked it in I didn’t mean to take over. But I would say that my, some of my hard points in this journey have been when I’ve accomplished an intention, or a goal. You know, like, let’s say, retire my mom, or, or get mom in a house and out of an apartment, that’s been accomplished. I remember when I did that. And I’m driving around in the nicest car, I don’t want to do anything crazy. Because the nicest car I’ve ever had, and I’m like, my bills are paid. And my mom’s good. And, you know, why am I doing this? Now, if that makes sense, and I had to realign and set new intentions or new goals. And it’s in that lapse of not setting a new one as I’m accomplishing another one. That realization that, hey, this intention, like let’s say, you’re like, I wanted to be in a healthy relationship, you find yourself in a healthy relationship in Colorado, with passive income goal achieved? And you’re like, What the f is next? Yeah, right. And that’s, that’s been moments for me. Like, honestly, it’s not been the journey toward the intention that’s been the harder part of entrepreneurship for me. It’s been, I set a big goal up there, then I get it. And then I’m like, I have to have another one. I need another one. You know, it doesn’t have to be like an accomplishment or anything. It’s just like, What is my why? And, you know, reshaping that and because I have to actually believe it. I can’t just set something out there. That’s like, Okay, I want 10 more houses. For example, you’re like, I got 13. That was it. Okay, I’m gonna add 10 More that 10. The extra 10 More is not nearly as motivating as the first. It’s just like, I need a financial goal out there. Want to take my agency from 2 million to 3 million or something? That’s, that’s for Andrew Morgans, that’s weak. I need something that’s like, got some passion mine, it got some why behind it. And that’s what motivates me. I’m very ambitious. I’m very like, driven. But if I don’t have that intention, it’s like, I have none of my superpowers. So like that superpower. Yeah, have superpowers. If I’m dialed in, yeah, I have superpowers. I’m unstoppable. But if I don’t have that, I’m floundering, I’m, you know, I’m spinning out, I can’t figure out what it is I’m not motivated to get up and work or handle the problems or whatever. It’s literally black and white for me. Anyway, back back to the story, because I just wanted to jump in about like, mine started so small as like, I don’t want to have this this drive in traffic every day, I can be in the gym, I could be reading, I could be sleeping, I could be doing all these things like I could be outdoors fishing two hours a day, if I didn’t have to do this drive, you know. And that just became an obsession for me to be like, I want to remove the two negative things in my life that I can control that I thought I could control, which was two hours of work of commuting that I was losing every single day, and financial security. And then it’s gone from there. But like, you know, your started yours were pretty big ones. I think your initial ones were a lot bigger than mine at that time.


David Chorpenning  18:27

Yeah. And again, certainly my luck there. And the fact that I happen to be in a profession where these people are totally Rob is still around today talking about it, but that that they were talking about this concept and this idea. And I just was fortunate to just have three really positive experiences and and then could really start on that journey. And I have I have weaved in intention in that since then in everything. My counseling practice was definitely about that. I mean, I would always first saying bad individual or a couple okay, what what do you expect to have happened as a result of our time together? Start with there. And also working with organizations. That was my focus, I just wanted to help the CEO and CFO on all those folks really consider how they want that organization to be. And I was I was somewhere in between the lines and drew this concept that you create the you you create an intention and then you you make it happen. And then it’s a question of what do I do next? It can be a little bit of a oh gosh, I made that happen. Now, what do I do next? And I see and I know that that the process that we’ve dialed into, it’s called appreciative inquiry. Have you heard of that? Okay. So what it is, is it’s a focus on more your growth mind set versus the negative mindset. So, for example, we have designed 20 questions that starts our process with the fact that that, what have you done that you love? What have you been really good at? When were the moments when, you know, someone’s saying, hey, it’s time to do this Alson? You’re just saying, Oh, no, I got more time here to work on this, or the people have given you feedback. And they’ve said, No, you’re just really good at designing ecommerce sites. And so anyway, we have a process that that helps people ground themselves in who they are, and what they’d been good at. And I think that that normally centered part of if you thought of a Venn diagram, and you had, you know, these are all the things that I love and good and want to relate to do more of, and then here’s, here’s the circle with all of the things that I’ve been told I’m good at, I know I’m good at. And then the third circle is if you’re an entrepreneur, what does the world need, what kind of a product or service does the world need, and then it’s just a matter of doing the research to plug that third one in, and then that middle part where they all crossover, the chances of you not feeling really good about all that, you know, goes into, once you make that commitment, you’re down the road, and all the shit hits the fan all the stuff, if you don’t have that touchdown, like, oh, wait a minute, I really did think about the things that I really, really love. And this is that, and it is in my skill set, even though maybe right now it doesn’t feel that way. But I have I can go back and use that touchstone as an entrepreneur, or as a person to feel better about like having a relationship. I mean, gosh, you have a tough relationship. And you know, and you decide, you want it to be different, do the kind of the same thing, you know, what are your skills, what are your partner skills, and, and but then you got to, you know, commit to it, okay, this is I’m gonna, I’m gonna go down the path to make it happen. But I know why I’m doing it. Because I really want to have this relationship. And I do have certain skills and dance and certain skills.


Andrew Morgans  22:11

I love that before we have a question for our follow up, shout out again, to our sponsor, finding experts, software developers doesn’t have to be difficult use the Full Scale platform to define your technical needs, and then see what available developers testers and leaders are ready to join your team visit full to learn more. For me, coming out of divorce and building my business, I put a lot of emotions and EQ in a box. You know, it was it was a wreck, it was you know, damaged, so to speak, it needed time. And I use my logic brain to get me far in E-commerce in the Amazon industry. And what I was doing was straight logic, just, you know, data, reverse engineering problems, like I went to school for computer science, things like that, just logic, logic, logic. And, but knowing all along, I’m self aware enough to know that, like, the cause is you have to deal with this eventually, you know, if you want to be in a healthy relationship, and, you know, really setting your intention for people, like you know, going into a friend’s house, setting your intention before you go in there. What’s my energy? Like? You know, what kind of energy Am I trying to bring into their home? Same thing in a date or a relationship? You know, just being like, okay, is this is expectation literally just to have some fun and be social and get some social interaction? Is it to, you know, date to marry? Is it? Am I looking for someone to teach me things? I don’t know, in a relationship? Am I looking for someone that’s, you know, gonna just comfort me here. So I can take risks over here, like, you know, what is that intention, and you’ll be much happier with that. But jumping from there maybe can help me make this leap. Like, where does that intentionality or that intention? So I’ve learned a lot about intention in church, when you come into church, I’m not as religious anymore, I’m spiritual. But when you come to church, you come with an intention, what are you trying to get, if you’re trying to get something from God, or the speaker or school or this yoga session, or whatever it is, right? You come in there, if you’re looking to get something nine times out of 100, you’re gonna leave with something because you’ve like, you wanted to get something out of it. And if you know that, you’re trying to get something out of it, you’re there open, your mind is open, your eyes are open, your ears are open, hearts open, you’re like ready to receive something. If you’re not in that point, rarely does it happen. I believe, like, you know, you can get something out of the worst events or networking meetings or whatever, if you’ve set your intention to get something from it and then go get that. Where does vulnerability playing? I want to give that a chance to breathe a little bit and kind of hear your thoughts on that. How do you go from you know, having absolute focus all in dialed in extreme focus and intention on what you want and anything that’s opposing that or distraction from if that’s really what you have to learn about when you have no opportunity, and then you get a lot of opportunities as your business grows as an entrepreneur, now you have way more opportunities to fight, just get opportunities. And now you have to say, No, this goes against my intention, or my, what I’m actually trying to get. vulnerability has always been not difficult subject, but a difficult thing to wrap my head around in regards to relationships in and out of business. And, you know, when to be vulnerable as a leader, and when to pull back and, you know, be strong and buttoned up. And, you know, how did how did vulnerability impact you in regards to your journey?


David Chorpenning  25:39

It’s sort of a really interesting question. I don’t think I’ve ever been asked that one. Relative to the journey. I can No, no, no, no, this is there’s a lot of different ways to to answer that. But one that really just kind of comes up for me, right off the bat, is that I did when my son was probably four, I just fell that I didn’t understand the concept of unconditional love. I grew up also in very evangelical Christian family with a father who was gun, you know, balls to the walls, kind of evangelical. I am, you know, I’m an atheist. So I’m, I had the the opinion that show me the evidence, and I’ll consider whether, you know, there’s so it’s not that I’m saying there is no God, I’m just saying there is no evidence for a god. So. So that’s, that’s a little backstory there. But I didn’t, you know, the, we raised an environment where as I’m sure you could say, I mean, that’s a, that’s a big litany that you get that everybody in the church is loving everybody. And I never felt it through my father. A little bit from my mother, but you know, she just was emotionally stunted as well. So I ended up going and doing therapy with a therapist, and my wife had just used in her best friend had us. And he was a psychiatrist. And he, you know, we sat down the room, and he would tell me stories, and, and, you know, why I became comfortable with using the airport. And our title is that I would tell him the story about how I, you know, grew up and, and he would just say, you know, that and he would jump up and down on his couch. And now go, Hello, I guess maybe that wasn’t such a good day, as I was growing up. So I’m doing really intensive, both individual and then group therapy, I believe I finally got it, I could finally feel what unconditional love was, for at least my my two kids. And in fact, my wife, and I mean, it just it’s it was a game changer to be able to have difficult situations with my kids, whether it was my daughter wanting to drive to Denver to go to independent shows at 16, or my son getting a call from the principal, you know, pretty regularly about something I could connect to that I wasn’t needing to be a disciplinarian, or an authoritarian, I could just hold him in this in this space of unconditional love, and share with him maybe a story about me or my experience. I didn’t have to tell him, hey, you know, don’t do this again, because that doesn’t go anywhere, anyway. But there was this holding of my both Colton and Chelsea in a way after I did that therapy, that then, and there’s a vulnerability to it, you know, I’m saying when that’s part of it, you know, to be unconditionally loving of another person, you have to let I had to let them feel both my kids, my wife have to feel my vulnerability. And I think that’s been really key to us, my wife and I’m moving forward. I mean, we have just a really genuine relationship. I mean, authentic genuine. It’s not like, Oh, we got 44 years under our belt. No, I mean, she’s the most incredible woman if I in the world is my life, and she’s done the work to. So I don’t know if that answers kind of the question about,


Andrew Morgans  29:24

Well, no, it does. And I think that’s something that is very confusing to people raise evangelist, evangelical upbringing, not coming into it as an adult or a teenager but like raising it. You know, you have these people that are loved by so many people, at least my family and you know, they’re loved by so many people. And your love to as long as you go there.


David Chorpenning  29:50

Yeah, there’s criteria. So if not unconditional there’s


Andrew Morgans  29:53

You don’t know that until you test that. It’s a rude awakening in a sense and that can be, you know, hard to wrap your head around, you know, I think we talked about vulnerability and in the church not to make this about church, but you know, this is this is the experience, right, is what is the catalyst that makes you want to learn about this or grow is in the church it was, you know, pray for your brothers and sisters and be vulnerable, confess your sins, you know, repent, you know, talk about your faults so that we can be accountable for each other and blah, blah, blah, followed by shame or judgment. Like, right, it was confusing as like, be vulnerable, and then when you’re vulnerable, get get bashed about it. And that was the confusing part. Because it was, it was like a cycle, just a very bad mental cycle. And then you leave that and you’re like, trying to figure out, okay, now I’m not in that community, I can’t be as vulnerable. But at the same time, being vulnerable out here doesn’t have the same side effects. It’s just a different game, to me, outside of the evangelical church. You know, so you’re trying to figure out what that looks like in business. I think it’s, I mean, if you’re hiring us as an agency, a marketing agency, like, and we’re your, you’re the brand, you created the product, you know, you’re hiring us to help you with this thing. Kind of like in therapy or anything else. If you haven’t one set intentions will bring they’re like, What are the intentions of like? Are we growing top line sales? And we’re looking at profitability? Are we trying to expand? Are we, you know, just trying to look for a new avenue? What is our intention with this project? Is it just to rebrand and look good? Is it to actually be probable business? To get there, we need a lot of times to work through those problems, you need vulnerability, you need vulnerability on our side to say, hey, we missed this, or I don’t know this, or, you know, I’m not privy to, you know, your customer segment yet. We need to learn about that. What are your cost of goods? You know, what are your weaknesses inside the company, yada yada, yada to be able to help. And in the same way, you know, we have to talk about from our side, we’re not superheroes or gods, either, we have to be like, these are some of our vulnerabilities or some of the things that we can miss if we don’t talk about it enough, or this or that. And there is this level of, okay, if I show them this weakness, and it makes us not look as great or buttoned up, right, it doesn’t make us look as posh. And when you know that people will take, you know, vulnerabilities for weakness, at times, it makes you makes you worry, but when you really know that, look, there’s no way we get, we hit these goals together for No way. It is definitely this dance that I still am trying to learn in regards to business and how that ties in, to actually getting out. So I know that was a bit open ended. But to bring that kind of in from where I learned about it, and then coming into the business world and trying to apply this as someone that’s like, learn these hard lessons kind of young about, you know, what that can look like, around your loved ones, your caretakers, whatever to now you’re in business, you’ve learned all these different skills to cope, fight or flight, protect yourself, you know, vulnerability, and then you’re trying to either get in relationships, or this I think of business and dating very similarly, like, it’s just courting process. It’s a dating process. It’s a trust building process, you know, all those things, communication vulnerability. How do you do that effectively, you know, and when you do, and when you do it, right, it can be very, very powerful, you know, we get amazing results. So that’s like, that’s how I would think about it in regards to just how that applies to me every single day, like, I’m going to have several calls, after this podcast, I’m going to be talking to a business owner, about specific situations just happens to be today, where we’re going to be talking about issues on both sides. Whether it’s a growth opportunity, whether it’s, you know, and there’s going to need to be vulnerability, like so, you know, if I’ve had six calls today, I’ve got three or four, where there’s going to need to be vulnerability in play. So for me, it’s an everyday thing.


David Chorpenning  34:11

Yeah. And I only shows that if I’m on my best game, I asked the other person, what is your desire from this? Our exchange, whether it’s in a friend and we having little, little rough spot, or whatever it might be, and let’s, let’s start with figuring out a common intention. So if we can both agree, this is where we want to be. This is these are the things that that I would like to see happen after we’ve had this call. And we’ve met you know, I come. It’s an I, it’s hard for people to do it. It’s in and I think a big part of it is what you’re talking about vulnerability, and I use this I’m somewhat Have a advocate for this new birthday wish process?


Andrew Morgans  35:05

So I don’t know we’re talking about.


David Chorpenning  35:07

Right, I’m kind of creating this, it’s a movement. Birthday wish changing, changing situations. So, you know, you go to a birthday party, and they set the cake in front of somebody, and they put however many candles on the cake. In my case, it’s down to one, because otherwise we’re going to turn off. But anyway, you put the candles out there. And what what do people say? Make a wish, you know, think about something you’d really like to have happen. But then what do we say when they blow out the candles. Don’t, don’t tell anybody? Don’t tell anybody about it? Well, if you think about it, here you have all the people that really care about you, would support you, would help you make that intention happen. So I encourage people, when they’re in that process to say, Hey, how about if you do share it because we’re here to help you with this, but I think it gets back to people are a little vulnerable. If I say, oh, gosh, you know, I’d really like my health. I’d like to, you know, work out more and lose 20 pounds. And that’s their intention when they blow out the candles. And if they share that or vulnerable about that, then it could, it could be scary, because


Andrew Morgans  36:21

I think it’s, it’s pride, its pride and embarrassment. I think we all have a certain level of that, right? And it’s, what if I tell them that I want to lose 20 pounds? And then I eat this whole cake? Right? Right? Or I tell them that I want to spend more time with my friends or I want to do this? And then what if I don’t?


David Chorpenning  36:39

You know what after that, I think you’ve really hit, you know, a pretty significant pain on the head, which is to really, I think, live an intentional life, consciously intentional life, is that you got to take the risks, you have to share your intentions, what you really, really think are important to you, with the people that can help you make it happen. And don’t be afraid. I mean, you get you have to start out with people like a lot of times when I talk about something with my wife, I say okay, I’m kind of tender about this. So be easy on me when I tell you about this. So she doesn’t immediately go, oh, have you thought about it? You know, just give me some space. And so she’s learned that when I say that, that’s kind of what I need. So it’s a, it’s a actually kind of a social contract social process. And you find people that are like that, that can can support you in being vulnerable about your deepest desires.


Andrew Morgans  37:36

Yeah, I have a best friend might be the first person in my life. We’ve been friends like six years now. We’re business partners in a different business, real estate, so property management, rentals, Airbnb, short term rentals, things like that. And he, we 100%, set our goals for the year talk about what we’re trying to get done. And we go in and try to help each other do that, if that’s taking a trip to Spain, if that’s, you know, seeing your mom, if that’s, you know, what, getting healthy in the gym, you know, if that’s whatever those goals are, we share them. And we also have the practice of taking one of those goals for ourselves. So if there’s four of us sharing our goals, we each take one of the other person’s goals and make it our own. You know, you get to pick and choose, there’s a lot to choose from, there’s personal goals and business goals and health goals and things like that our intentions. What’s a way of kind of sharing and checking off the list together? And you know, what is holding helpful when you


David Chorpenning  38:37

you know that you’ve shared it, they like checking in with you and say, Hey, Andrew, how’s that going with the trip to Spain?


Andrew Morgans  38:43

it’s something that you have to learn because in the environment I grew up in. It was a lot of like, That can’t happen that won’t, you know, a lot of negativity. So sharing literally only opened yourself up to negativity and all the why nots, and have you thought of this? And have you thought of this? As I’ve accomplished more in my life, I get less of that. Because people are like, Well, shit, he does what he says he’s gonna do, like, you know, and I have that reputation, but before, and you haven’t proven those things, and you’re sharing those goals. And it’s just like, you’re really setting yourself up to be discouraged. But I think if you’re around people that you trust, that maybe you’ve accomplished some goals with you can have that you have to know when to have that vulnerability, right? But around those people very much so because I personally am a man of my word. And I’ve tried my hardest to live a life that if I say I’m going to do something, I do it. And I have a pretty great record in that regard. And so for me, if I posted on social media, okay, if I post on social media, or if I tell I don’t do everything, but if I set a goal or I’m going to do this, or I tell my friends, I’ve now said out loud, what I’m going to do. I’ve set my intention, so to speak, and I don’t I make a liar myself. So it’s kind of like knowing my like little, my little ticks or whatever matters to me. And like if I say I’m gonna do some last right, he’s kind of a my grandpa kind of old school and he had a handshake was all we needed, you know, cowboy kind of mentality, if you say it, keep your word, you know, obviously, I’m gonna show up to help you move, I’m not going to cancel, if I say I’m gonna be at dinner at 7am via dinner at seven, you know, that kind of thing. And in a world where everyone’s so flaky, and maybe and whatever, I think it’s an amazing way to stand out as a young person. And so for me, it’s just been kind of my thing. And so if I say it out loud, maybe I want that little bit of embarrassment, there are that pride there. Or that I will have to eat my words, to kind of motivate myself and say, in stay driven, so I just don’t I care. There’s somewhere in there along the way. And I’ll say that story where I stopped giving a fuck what people think, like, I just stopped, I had a big high and then had this big and lightning moment. And I was just like, I really, I still care. But in comparison to what I used to, I really don’t. And so I really only care about the people that I have this vulnerability with this trust, these are the people I care about, I care about their opinions, I care about letting them down, the rest of the world can go do whatever they want to do. And look at me from afar, I don’t really care, right? But it’s these people I don’t want to let down. And so, you know, it’s I say it and if those people see me fail, I don’t care that people around me will see me give it my all and try to make it happen. And I feel like they’ll understand you know, so it’s, it’s kind of this, these different things that you learn along the way that can help you in the other ones. And for me, vulnerability was when I had something to actually be proud of myself for I had accomplished some of the things I said I was going to do. And so just talking about them. It allowed me to be like, Nah, I’m just gonna say that, I’m gonna say that I’m going to get this, like, you know, there’s been things in my career, this big Amazon conference, I remember going the first year and I, I looked at my best friend, the same friend I was talking to, and I said, I’m going to speak at this conference, you know, and it’s goal doesn’t matter, I can be successful never speak at that conference, I could, you know, but it was a matter of saying it out loud and saying it to someone so that when it happens, I can be like, right? Remember, when I told you I was gonna speak here? Well, they just invited me to come speak, you know, and those are the things that now when he has something that he wants to make happen, you know, he’s gonna remember that moment and feel empowered to say, to be vulnerable to be like, I want to do I want to do this and do it, you know, because we have that relationship between each other. So you’re never able to look back and be like, I said, I was gonna do that. And I did it. If you never say that you’re gonna do it. You don’t get that that fulfillment from that thing, you know?


David Chorpenning  42:44

Yeah, there’s plenty of canon science behind the fact that once you write something down, and that’s one of the things about our book is that we you can see this book is, you know, it’s got tons of pages that are, you know, written in, in, torn out, right? And that’s one of the things that we tried to say in the book is, right, in a right year, what’s next, right, the follow up stuff, right, you’re the people that you’re going to talk to write it down and tear that out, put it someplace where it’s going to remind you, whatever on the dash of your car, in your, in your bathroom, because just what he said, it’s just another way that the brain starts to integrate, this is what needs to happen in my life. So I commend you for the concept of definitely writing things down and sharing them you found a, you know, a trusted group of people that you can, you know, talk to about. And the one thing that we have found that I think can be helpful when all this is just a real chat can you know, once you start on a road to do something important, there’s a lot of detours that can happen. There’s a lot of stuff and get in your way. But if you can always go back to saying, Why am I doing it? Oh, because I do love this concept of like, for me, I never thought I would do podcasts. I’m a research writer, I love to sit at this desk and a mat and in I’ve got Google Scholar open and I just, you know, cut and pasting all this stuff about whatever topic I’m in. So I love it. You know, I love that so when Colton said dad we’re going to do these podcasts was like, okay, you know, what, what’s that gonna be like? And, and I would, you know, go back to the touchstone which is I love doing this project with my son. I, I I’m really wanting to encourage people to use more intention in their lives. And I go so far as to say I really believe that if we could all start using intention on a lot of, you know, significant issues if we could get more on the same page which with what, whatever we’re talking about world peace. The environment, social causes, if we can if I can sit down with them. Another person who’s different than me about this idea, we can both talk about our general intentions for how we would like to see this area of the of the world different. Um, I think it’s, we can make a lot of progress.


Andrew Morgans  45:14

I can disagree, I think I’ve told something to my friends before, that I’m a very opinionated person. You know, mainly because I’ve thought about whatever I’m saying a lot before it comes out of my mouth. I think about I just think nonstop. So even when I’m supposed to be chilling, I’m thinking about topics that I want to have an opinion on, you know, and that’s just, that’s just who I am. I’m very passionate. My relationships mean everything to me. But I’ve said to my closest friends, or whoever, I’m dating, whatever, I will offend you. I’m sure I’ll upset you. Without even knowing half the time. And I’m, like, but if you will bring it to me and talk to me about it. Like, hey, this bothered me or, Hey, you upset me when, I promise you my intention is good. Like, I trust myself to know that the my intention with whatever I said, was coming from a place of passion or love or whatever, and I misunderstood, or I didn’t realize that was happening. But I promise you my intention is good. And with my friends with the ones I love, if that makes sense. Like I’m, like, there’s nothing in me that’s that’s malicious ability again, you know, yeah.


David Chorpenning  46:24

You got it. I’m not malicious to say I said this. And and, you know, my ego thought it was the right thing to say, I just did that with my wife just other day I blurted something out and in she, you know, kind of called me on it. And in my first response was, Well, why are you calling me out on this? I think it was out it was fine. What I said, no, they thought about it. I had to say, You’re right. I’m sorry, that was the wrong thing. And it made all the difference. She said, thank you.


Andrew Morgans  46:54

Yeah, and I hang my hat on that. Like, I’m like, look, my delivery, my communication skills used to be shit, my delivery, you know, when you’re not used to being heard you talk 1000 words around a thing, instead of a straight line, sometimes you want to be missed, you want to be understood correctly, all those different things, you know, these are my insecurities, right? But I can tell you, my intention is pure, like, I believe it to be pure, I just need to have communication around what that was, or how do we work it out or whatever. And I think as long as you keep your intention right, the rest of it can kind of work itself out. You know, the delivery or the method or the, you know, if we’re trying to get to good, we might both be coming at it from different sides. But if our intentions are in the right spot, like you’re saying, with these big problems, you know, we in ourselves up there, I think the same thing with with business, you know, just to bring it back to the Startup Hustle community. Like, if I’m getting on a call with a client that’s upset, right? Is it, is my intention to establish our boundaries as a team because they were disrespecting my team? Is my intention to keep them as a client? Is my intention to just like hear them and work it out? You know, what’s my intention going in? What’s their intention? Their intention is just to point fingers and blame, we’re gonna get nowhere, you know. And what can be hard to be completely transparent is to be 36, and know this and talk to a 71 year old that doesn’t. And, you know, that’s a realization, too, because I’m like, I know nothing. I’m just barely, you know, figuring out business as I go. But some of these things are, you might need to be the leader at 36 in a conversation with a seventy year old businessman that’s worth 10 times what you are because, you know, just different paths and still be a one-on-one in regards to communication or how to set things up for how to have conversation. So you know, something, something to always learn. And a good reminder, you said, you said if I’m in a good spot, I think you said if I’m in a healthy spot, I go into a conversation and I say, what’s our intention here today? You know, and I wrote that down, I think that’s an amazing reminder, to just start a conversation off that way. If it can go, you know, right, or left or up or down and just say, Hey, guys, what’s our intention today? For this meeting, let’s, let’s keep it there. And I’m gonna be using that today. So thanks for the reminder, you know. Okay, so, as we’re rounding out, I can talk about this all day, because this is literally one of my favorite subjects. It literally is, and I have a million stories for it. But I like to end the show, with a couple of questions like one, what’s something that you’re working on, that you’re really excited about in your business? And that could be you know, that could be the book that can be beyond 55 as a whole. It could be you know, you can share a little bit more of that if you’d like. And then second part is what’s something you’re excited about this year that you’re working on and that you’re moving toward personally, you know, off the clock, David? You know, in your relationships with your son or travel or something like that.


David Chorpenning  50:00

Yeah, the, the main thing that I’m pretty, that I’m excited about is trying to motivate people to use intention more in their life. And certainly the book was the first step in that process. And, and then this, you know, having these kinds of conversations, I mean, you have brought out of me different thoughts and ideas about the use of intention that I had, I would not have considered otherwise. So. And I’m hoping that listeners, you know, you got to provide a lot of different entry points into, say, a topic and maybe the entry point that you and I have been talking about, which is adding this vulnerability, being more specific about writing intentions about bringing in, you know, your, your tribe, to be supportive, you know, some of those things may resonate with somebody in a way that then they say, you know, I know I’ve used intention, because everybody has used intention, they have, they’ve, they’ve made things happen in their lives, and neither was conscious or unconscious, or they haven’t thought about it in a long time. So. So that’s part of these conversations, to kind of find all the potential entry points where people can consider using intention more in their lives. So this is a big deal I do still, my wife and I still own a little over 50 doors. And we have a whole team that runs those properties for us. And so I am getting more and more used to letting go and turning it over to the property manager and she makes decisions and yes, we don’t make as much money as I if I was doing it, but it’s 71. I’ve got this project and, and I, I fly fish, I downhill ski, I golf three days a week, pretty hard. And then I like to have the time as I was saying it’s in front of my computer and think about things and make a contribution to the body of knowledge about different topics of interest to me. So those are two pretty important things.


Andrew Morgans  52:07

I love that. And where can people if they want to, you know, we talked about the books? Where can people find them? Where can they contact you? Is it LinkedIn? Is it your website, what’s the best way best way to get in contact or stay connected?


David Chorpenning  52:22

The F is next is our website, the F is next. And there’s a space there if they want to say I like to reach out to, David. I’d even give you my email And if somebody wants some help on how to move forward with any part of the process in the book, I’d be happy to do it by email. So, there’s that and then the book is available both in Audible Kindle, hard and soft copy on Amazon.


Andrew Morgans  52:50

Got it and you guys know I love Amazon. And if you’d like to book, leave a review is the best way to help an author get more visibility on all those platforms. And if you don’t like it, just don’t say anything at all, right? That’s the golden rule. So, no, you guys should check it out. It’s been awesome having you on the show. Dave, I wish we could go another hour. I’ll have to take you up on that fly fishing and pick your brain. You know why while we’re at it, but I really appreciate you being on the show.


David Chorpenning  53:20

I’ve really enjoyed it. You’re a pleasure to talk with.


Andrew Morgans  53:24

Awesome and to our to our sponsor That makes all this possible. Let Full Scale help. They have the people in platform to help you build and manage a team of experts if you need to hire software engineers, testers or leaders they’re the place. At Full Scale, they specialize in building long term teams that work only for you learn more when you visit Hustlers, I hope you enjoy this this one, power of vulnerability. We’ll see you next time.