Ep. #887 - Reshaping Gen Z Marketing

00:00.00

Matt DeCoursey

And we’re back for another episode of Startup Hustle. Matt DeCoursey here to have another conversation I’m hoping helps your business grow if you listen to the show. You know that I am not personally a member of Gen Z, but so many people are in. It is a coveted marketing group, and really someone or people, that brands, pretty much anybody selling anything, wants to reach these days. Now, once again, making fun of my old age, you might not understand Gen Z. And that’s why it’s important to probably get some help from people in the advertising group to help you create your advertising. That’s exactly what we’re going to talk about in today’s episode. Before I introduce you to today’s guest, today’s episode of Startup Hustle is sponsored by WIX. Yes, our friends over at WIX know a thing or two about turning a scrappy startup team into a global organization that serves millions of people. And they want to share what they’ve learned with Startup Hustle listeners, and their new micro podcast series is called Ready for Takeoff by WIX. When you tune into Ready for Takeoff by WIX, you get to hear from WIX founders and company leaders. And they share super short lessons that, say that five times really fast, help you build better programs and teams faster. That’s a topic I can get behind. Subscribe and follow the Ready for Takeoff by WIX podcasts pretty much wherever you’re going to find and listen to podcasts with me today. I’ve got Jake Bjorseth, and he is the CEO and founder of Trndsttrs. That’s a marketing and advertising agency located in Kansas City, and they specialize in Gen Z stuff. This is someone I have known locally for quite a few years, and I’m happy to get on the show. I probably should have done this a long time ago. I’m not going to try to, yeah, their web domain is not just Trndsttrs.com. It is spelled a little differently. Do me a favor, scroll down the show notes, and click that link. You can get a little bit of reference about what they do straight out of my hometown, Kansas City. Jake, welcome to Startup Hustle. Yeah, I’m looking forward to what we talk about, saying I got to learn a few things about Gen Z and the crazy kids, man, what they’re up to.

02:04.27

Jake Bjorseth

Thanks so much for having me, Matt.

02:16.13

Matt DeCoursey

Ah, you have a very interesting backstory, and I think that’s probably the best place to start.

02:20.52

Jake Bjorseth

Yeah, no, definitely an interesting one. You know, born and raised here locally. Ah, you know, I have always been into the entrepreneurship grind since a very young age. I had this iconic picture when I was nine years old. You know, running this little candy stand that I would pull to the neighborhood pools because they don’t have the convenience ones there and then. Piss all the parents off because I would, you know, pretty much sling some candy and ice cream at the local pool. And then have a credit system because they didn’t bring cash. So, anyway, you know, I found myself the first week on campus at KU, and I built a strong following on Snapchat. And as I was advising, I somehow wound my way up into advising noodles and company on Snapchat. We had a one-hour call, and, you know, within the first two minutes of that call, it was clear to me and evident that this has nothing to do with Snapchat. This has everything to do with an understanding of my generation. Right? Then I literally Google it. I go what generation I am a part of if I was born in 1999. So I’m not one of the 2000s kids by any means.

03:24.25

Matt DeCoursey

Then.

03:27.11

Jake Bjorseth

At that point, three weeks later, I shattered my jaw into about different pieces. Great experience. Wouldn’t recommend breaking that bone of any um, and at that point, you know, I had some time off from school my freshman year, and I decided what better time to start a business than, you know, when my jaws are wired shut I can’t speak or eat. Um, and so I started Trndsttrs media, and you know we were off to the races ended up dropping out of school, and now here we are, five years later, very long hours, Ah and you know now working with some of the biggest brands in the world helping them reach and understand Gen Z.

04:00.86

Matt DeCoursey

And you have a really impressive company that you’ve built largely because of building with Gen Z. Let’s do a little definition here. So a millennial is anyone born between 1981 and 1996, so um, you know. There you go on that, and Gen Z is from 1997 to 2012. I was born in 1975. I don’t even know what generation I’m in, but you hear a lot of this communication, and you know about I don’t ah you googled it.

04:26.16

Jake Bjorseth

How yeah.

04:33.10

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

04:34.74

Matt DeCoursey

What generation and I think most people need to do that. But that’s the actual definition of that, and I think it’s fair to say you hear people. Oh, these damn millennials, these damn Gen Zs, and by the way, if you’re saying that, you probably find yourself shaking your fist at youth. On your front lawn, because you’re mad that they’re riding their bikes through it or something, I feel like it’s an old people thing, but when it comes to what you do at Trndsttrs Once again, there’s a link in the show notes like what’s the biggest problem that needs to be solved when it comes to communicating with the Gen Z audience.

04:53.10

Jake Bjorseth

Um, oh yeah.

05:05.83

Jake Bjorseth

Yeah, you know. The biggest thing is, and I want to be clear because when it comes to generations. Um, I’m not, you know, despite being a generational marketing company like that’s what we’re built on, I’m not a buyer of that. Generations have much crazy variance or commonality even within that generation necessarily because the youth are always going to operate and act a certain way, and you can go back for the past one hundred and fifty years. Youth tend to have this set of characteristics, and it doesn’t matter what. You know, the generation you’re looking at, that’s just the difference between being eighteen years old and 45 years old. It’s your reality of the world, but all of that said, the difference is technology shapes our consumers but habits, and when you have a generation that doesn’t know a world without. The internet and they’re literally born, and they have one hand, you know, on their parents’ breast or and on their mom’s breast and the other hand on, you know, an iPad or an iPhone like immediately out of the womb. What you see there is their consumer behaviors shift. Ah, you know, instrumentally and so you know the biggest thing I see with brands. Ah. Particularly in this space is just a lack of fundamental understanding of how they consume as consumers. How are they making decisions on their purchases? You know, not just the social media aspect to me. That’s a piece of it, and I think our generation even looks at social media a lot differently. Not just our consumption habits in it. Ah, but even the reason for why we’re purchasing products purchasing services. Um, so the biggest thing is just a fundamental understanding of why things are happening.

06:43.94

Matt DeCoursey

And I think some of what you’re saying is, yeah, all right? So The notes that our production team provided say differences that Gen Zers will be known for fewer validation expectations. I think that’s true for anybody. That’s an early buyer. I think the older you get, the more finicky you are. Maybe you’ve bought some stuff that didn’t work out, and you’re a little jaded, or I don’t know. Is it fair to say that usually, an expectation is you get a little better at financial management when you’re older? Ah.

07:02.88

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

07:11.22

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

07:13.87

Matt DeCoursey

All these next things are these next things on the list. I just think this is just young people in general throughout the history of the world being more independent, more entrepreneurial, more communicative, and more competitive. Um.

07:26.68

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

07:29.60

Matt DeCoursey

I mean that I don’t see the difference. I don’t think that that was when I, however old I was when I was 20, felt the same way. But do you think that that’s kind of there some general rules of thumb that apply to reaching Gen Z that would have applied to a millennial or the other people gave they were that?

07:37.32

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

07:49.18

Matt DeCoursey

Age when you’re trying to communicate with them.

07:51.55

Jake Bjorseth

Yup, I think there’s a strong crossover, and I think there’s something to note. You know there was a report that came out early Twenty Twenty from Ogilvie Consulting in the none bullet points or section in that report was titled millennials lie. It talked about when you did a post-shopper analysis of actual things like you know what’s one thing to take survey data. And you know I’m such a proponent against like the headline stuff that includes anything about a generation or survey data. People will tell you things in a survey because it sounds good and because they want to do that. But then you look at their consumption habits, and it’s entirely different, and so it was titled the millennials line, and the reason was there’s a strong gap right now between what the insights department of the biggest brains in the world determines. Product innovation from a technology standpoint from ah ah hey what snack or widget or thing of jigs. Should we launch next? There’s this entire insights world that exists that is all based on this survey data um, which is rarely accurate when you look at the post-purchase analysis. You know we were told that millennials were such a purpose-driven generation. That’s why they bought things when you did a post-purchase analysis on what they actually purchased based on that the least of any generation in terms of purpose and even the silent generation, I’m talking 80-year-olds were, you know, buying on those reasons. More than millennials, and so you know what we take from this. Well, the big gap is this idea that we can fundamentally understand a generation simply through data and surveys when you know it’s our belief, and it’s our principle at Trndsttrs that if you want to understand and reach this generation. You have to work directly with them, and you know then keeping in mind too just the speed of consumers. There are new platforms every day, there are new trends happening all the time, and so that’s indicative of the name Trndsttrs, right? We need to be thinking about what’s happening next and how this generation is shifting.

09:55.32

Matt DeCoursey

And I think you have a great point about where it’s happening. You mentioned different platforms. So you know, making fun of my old age again, you know people that are my age like we’re still like I remember when Facebook came out, and I remember having the debate as to whether I wanted to put my energy into my myspace page.

10:01.90

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

10:12.72

Matt DeCoursey

My Facebook page and I remember because Facebook was new, and people were like, hey, I’m switching. This is cooler. This is better. I’m like, ah, do I really need another platform but now when I talk to people that are half my age. You know they’re, like you mentioned, building that community on Snapchat.

10:13.97

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

10:27.43

Matt DeCoursey

And I think if you’re trying to reach a generation, and by the way, the harder, the bigger that sample size gets, the harder. It is to define anything about them, in my opinion, because we’re in Kansas, which, you know, 20-year-old kids might have a completely different outlook on. Everything in Kansas is compared to Florida as compared to Hawaii or maybe where I have hundreds of employees in the Philippines. So I mean because technically, everyone that’s twenty years old in all those places is a part of Gen Z.

10:49.78

Jake Bjorseth

Um, step.

10:58.84

Jake Bjorseth

Yup, so with that in mind, you know I have an interesting thought there. Um, and this is a theory, and a thread that we’ve really driven with, which is what the internet has created; however, is global connectivity, I mean, of course, like we all understand that. But what is the output of that?

11:11.63

Matt DeCoursey

Um, you mean? Yeah.

11:16.48

Jake Bjorseth

What we’ve seen is consumer habits have been allowed to flourish in this individualistic way. Um, you know, recalling Aldous Huxley’s brave new world. You know so much of that future where it’s individualism at a wide-scale and.

11:24.77

Matt DeCoursey

Are.

11:33.35

Jake Bjorseth

So what is the difference? You’re no longer limited by geography by your localization and by some of those things, and so where we see that living out is actually in consumer behaviors and interests. So, for example, you know, if I went to school, if I was in high school in the 80s and I was super into it. Um, you know this off-brand thing, and I’ll just use it again. Let’s say frisbee golf. Well, I’m super into frisbee golf, but my high school probably doesn’t have a frisbee golf team, and you know, maybe some friends play but maybe let’s pretend that they don’t, and so how am I? Ever going to explore that passion. I may end up developing a consumer trait or consumer behavior of mine when there’s no frisbee golf on tv. There’s no frisbee golf magazine. There are no frisbee golf books. There’s no information source for this, whereas nowadays, take any topic, and we’ll include frisbee golf again. And if you’re into that, it doesn’t matter if your friends are into it, if your high school has access to it, if there’s a course near you. None of that matters because you can go check out a Facebook group. You can go to Youtube and check out highlights. You can go learn how to play and how to throw it. You know, at a better angle. So. I think what we’ve seen is that certainly there’s an element of localization. That’s what’s always going to be, you know, ingrained in human behavior with Gen Z in particular and, you know, growing up in this internet era. It’s allowed this generation to develop consumer habits and behaviors. Not limited to their local and physical presence and. I’d even argue that you know, um, you know who’s doing the majority of parenting for Gen Z? Is it their teachers and their neighbors and the community around them and their parents, or is it. You know their phone where they spend the majority of their time, and so these are some of the interesting questions. We live out as we look at, you know, shifts in consumer behavior.

13:26.29

Matt DeCoursey

Well, one of the things you mentioned is going to look at you. You get everything you mentioned was proactive like you keep with the frisbee golf theme like you. Okay, so I bought a claw game like the arcade game for my kids. I’ve played it as much as they have. Ah.

13:35.26

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:45.90

Matt DeCoursey

By the way, dude, I put all of my kids too many plush toys everywhere. So the None thing I did with the claw game is I put their own toys back in it so they could win their own toys back if they wanted, but with that, I made a post at one point, and I said this is it’s I’ve always wanted to have my own claw game claw arcade game at home.

13:51.18

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, I think um.

14:05.20

Matt DeCoursey

And so a bunch of technology. Okay, now I’m getting Youtube videos being served to me real stories, all of it. You don’t even have to look for the community. The tech, the platforms deliver it to you, and you know so so with that.

14:16.64

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, but.

14:20.62

Matt DeCoursey

Oh man, and I’m way down the rabbit hole. I just had this conversation with my wife. I’m like, do you know yesterday? Why are we playing the law game? Like, do you know how many different amazing things people put in claw games. But with that, that’s that proliferation. Ah, and things being served up to you that you’re interested in or maybe or even topical and.

14:37.90

Jake Bjorseth

Um.

14:39.00

Matt DeCoursey

I think from a marketing perspective, That’s pretty cool because, well, it can reduce your ability or need to necessarily be an expert on certain parts of marketing.

14:48.86

Jake Bjorseth

Yeah, yeah, and something that I love, I think you know, so all these algorithms are incredibly sophisticated, but the Tiktok algorithm in particular, as I’ve never seen an algorithm better serve up the content that you don’t even know you’re interested in and it knows that you want to watch that. Based on some complex, you know, the system that they were able to design and what excites me the most about that is that you know, perhaps we’re able to enter an era when it comes to marketing where we can go back to this era of organic. Well, not, I wouldn’t say an era.

15:20.75

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, no.

15:26.36

Jake Bjorseth

Can we get to an era where it’s serving up organic content and valuable information and entertainment and education as supposed to, you know, running ads through Facebook like crazy and worshiping, you know, Facebook ad center like it’s you know, the lifeblood of our business, which to many e-comm brands has been How do we get to an era where you know instead of this paid advertising is there a future where we can rely a lot more on organic and let consumers come to us, and you know that’s a lot of as we think about how we market to Gen Z you know they’re so bombarded with advertisements day in and day out? That we see the ineffectiveness and just the fatigue of all these ads being displayed in front of them that you know a large part of the strategy. We look to deploy that organic content strategy. How do we get in front of them organically and get them interested in us?

16:18.26

Matt DeCoursey

I think that’s one of the biggest differences that I’ve seen, and I have over 20 years of just marketing in general like everything from like you know when ah when I None entered like newspapers were still relevant like that was actually the best way for me to reach people in mass. This is still when having the discussion of how important are the yellow pages now. I just mentioned two things that are like dinosaurs in my world, like I would never buy a newspaper ad for Full Scale, and I certainly and I’m not in the yellow pages, and yeah, but so but the big change here is the creation of content, and that’s.

16:41.15

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

16:47.99

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

16:57.76

Matt DeCoursey

I mean, all right? So last year, I did ah 100% of the volume that we did at Full Scale was without purchasing advertising for Full Scale, meaning like so we actually sold more ads on this podcast than we spent in advertising.

17:06.83

Jake Bjorseth

Yeah.

17:13.70

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

17:15.23

Matt DeCoursey

And that’s a test, so we have a positive marketing budget which is kind of crazy like when I was in business school. I should mention I dropped out of um, but if I turned that into the professor and had a positive marketing budget. There would have been a circle around it that said come see me.

17:22.11

Jake Bjorseth

Yeah, yeah.

17:30.78

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

17:32.36

Matt DeCoursey

And then probably a conversation of, like, a dude come on. There’s no one that does this, but people do it all the time. There’s, you know, 1 of our clients is urban necessities which is a sneaker resale brand in Vegas, and you know J C Lopez built that business into a monster with an Instagram following.

17:47.17

Jake Bjorseth

Are.

17:51.80

Matt DeCoursey

And you know that doesn’t cost money, but you gotta be after it, you got to create it, and this seems like a good time to mention that I’m also going to put a link to your like literally Jake’s Linkedin because I want you to follow him because you do a great job with providing content and. Even though we’re the content marketing idea isn’t new. People are so freaking bad at it. I mean, they really are now. It’s a bit of a journey. You got to kind of learn to be better at it. But no one wants to hear your 48 none.

18:14.60

Jake Bjorseth

So yeah.

18:25.66

Matt DeCoursey

Before you talk about what you need, I think one of the big differences will, first off, create content that’s valuable, but I mean, content marketing is a very mysterious thing to people that are still stuck in an old-school mindset. And if you want organic reach, you’re going to have to create content at some point because the definition of organic is non-paid. It’s earned Pr in many ways, and like that’s a whole nother subject. But. How do you go about creating good or useful content? What are some of your pillars for that?

18:59.55

Jake Bjorseth

Yeah, yeah, and I think there’s there are main things here one I want to talk about the personal brand-led companies, and then number two, we should shelf what you mentioned on the creator led brand if you will where you build up a following on social then you monetize it because there’s some fascinating stuff there. But. You know, one of the things I’d recommend, especially for young founders. But I think founders of any kind can develop your personal brand into an asset. That’s one of the most valuable things you can do because you know at the end of the day, particularly if you’re in a B2B category. You know why people are going to buy with you, and it’s so funny. It’s not even a derivative of content marketing and Seo and making sure you’re ranking here like obviously it’s beneficial to have those things but just from a sales perspective like the way I imagine it is when I’m pushing out content on Linkedin. That is my version of spending 4 hours on the golf course with someone you know; only now can I do it in a video context, and I can push it out there. Do you know why we would go back in the day? Maybe I know if people still do it. But I’m horrid at golf. So I’ll never always turn that down, but you know, on a sale. A trip like that or something of that nature. What are you trying to do in that well you’re trying to get them to know who you are and so they can trust you and they can make a buying decision and they get to know who you are and you know what? What are you like? What’s your personality like? How do you make decisions? Um, some of those things. That’s the way I see content marketing. It’s not just a matter of me pushing content out there. It’s also the fact that that backs up everything we’re saying because I have a stream of content and within video content. Specifically, you can tell very quickly. What my personality is, and you know, I can’t tell you how beneficial that’s been. For our business, I’m asked all the time. How were you able to get in front of these Fortune 500 brands? How were you able to sign Mcdonald’s in the north face and Coca-Cola? I’ll tell you it wasn’t from a cold email or a case study or anything like we’re Bootstrapped. We didn’t have the case studies for any of that stuff. We weren’t able to afford to go to the conferences. What it was was pushing content on these platforms, and then I even, at one point in 2020, started the CMO podcast because I wanted to get in front of CMOS, and I would invite them on, and then, sure enough, you build a relationship naturally through a podcast platform, and then one thing leads to another and you end up working together potentially and so. To me. That’s one of the biggest assets, and there are this whole building public trends that’s happening on Twitter and other platforms where people you know share the insights. We’ll share the revenue of their company. I don’t know if I’ll ever go that far. Um, but you know, with all of that in mind, I think this era of personal brands being involved in the business is.

21:40.00

Matt DeCoursey

The moment.

21:45.16

Jake Bjorseth

It’s really beneficial. It’s our primary recruiting engine too. Um, you know, So I think that’s something that’s huge.

21:50.42

Matt DeCoursey

You know, I want to talk a little bit more about some parts of that, mainly about the things you shouldn’t get frustrated with when you’re starting that route because a lot of people say the same thing to us at Startup Hustle, like wow man like you guys have this big audience or whatever how’ did you do that so quickly. Yeah, we didn’t.

22:08.13

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:09.99

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, there are 900 episodes, man. We started this shit five years ago. Is it been a lot of work, right? It’s been a lot of work. It’s been a lot of planning and a lot of improvement. What can make things a little easier for you is trying out a platform like WIX and our friends over at WIX. Yes, the website and business-building platform know a thing or two but turning a scrappy startup team into a global organization that is serving at none, and they want to share what they’ve learned with you in their new micro podcast series called Ready for Takeoff by WIX where the company’s founders and leaders share super short lessons designed to help you build better products. And teams faster, so subscribe to the subscribe to and follow yeah, now someone pointed out to me, you should not use the word subscribe because people mentioned that that’s paid in some cases. It’s free. So go follow. It. The Ready for Takeoff by WIX podcast is available now on Apple Podcast, Spotify, and wherever you listen to the show. Speaking of shows, don’t miss my upcoming special two-part series about validating your app that’s kicking off this Friday. I chatted with another fellow Kansas City Tech founder John Rake about developing apps. I get so many questions about How do you validate? What are you doing? How do you go about it, and we made that a special two-part series? John came by and did that in the studio with me. The episode is titled building your app, and the next one is called testing the prototype now. We were talking about content, and I think with content. You got to do a few things you got to teach people you got to or entertain them, and hopefully, both when it comes to you mentioned the brand-driven stuff and like you would call it the building your company was public-facing or something like that.

23:48.53

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, building in public. Yeah yeah.

23:52.11

Matt DeCoursey

Building in public. Okay, so that’s actually the first that I’ve heard that particular term. But if you’re going to do that, you have to share the good, the bad, and the ugly. The number one, probably the most popular comment, is something about this show that I’ve gotten from people all over the world. At this point, it is.

23:57.83

Jake Bjorseth

Um, for yeah.

24:10.85

Matt DeCoursey

I love that you keep it real, meaning like you’re going to tell it. We’re really open about what we’re good at and what we’re not good at, and I think the listeners are people. Well, one-off, everyone likes to look at the train wreck they do. That’s why there’s a bottleneck when there’s a rack on the highway. It’s not because people couldn’t drive past it. It’s because they stopped to look.

24:20.79

Jake Bjorseth

Um, oh yeah.

24:30.16

Matt DeCoursey

But the thing about sharing failure and what you learn from it and helping people grow. None off, That’s a very endearing thing because people say I’ve had the comments I said; well, what do you like? What do you like listening to the failure they say? Well, it makes me feel like I’m not the only one. Because we are speaking to entrepreneurs, and as you’re aware. That’s ah, that’s a treacherous path, and it chews people up, and it spits them out and is very much like a roller coaster ride on every day so sometimes just knowing that it’s not you like you’re not the only person that fails a lot I fail all the time and. So but these are the things that build that trust and that brand value and you know and then I end up, you talk about the usefulness of the content or whatever we get people that every day there is an appointment with a potential client for Full Scale that is related to Startup Hustle and in regards to the cred.

25:21.18

Jake Bjorseth

Um.

25:25.61

Matt DeCoursey

That you create from where you go, I will go to tell them, well, this is what we do, and they’ll literally be, hey, I already get it. I’ve been listening to the podcast for a while, and you don’t have to climb over that because if someone’s coming in and they’re cold. They just don’t really know what you do or anything.

25:31.25

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

25:41.29

Matt DeCoursey

You have to begin to establish that trust that credibility, and you mentioned with the video or LinkedIn, you’re saying, hey, I can accomplish the same thing for it for on a scalable way that I could with one person on a golf course for 4 hours that’s it you’re letting people get to know you, but you can’t just always tell them.

25:52.88

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

26:00.19

Matt DeCoursey

Hey, look, I’m the best at everything all the time because I just don’t buy that shit. Do you when you see someone that does that, I’m like, dude, come on.

26:03.16

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah, you know it’s fascinating. I’ve probably posted, you know, and I am able, and I’m repping the LinkedIn hoodie right now from a listening post I’m one of. I was able to get into this LinkedIn creators group, and I’m one of the top None creators on the platform based on how they judged that. I don’t know. Honestly, I think they just needed to throw a young person in there. Ah, but you know I’m honored either way. I got a free hoodie out of it, and you know, out of the none of the posts, I have literally posted to Linkedin. The one that has gotten the most traction in love was the one you know, and I’ll share some of the insights. But I literally think the first line in it is it in it is I was burnt out, and I explain how literally in the span of a month you know I have a creative director leave I have my co o leave. My girlfriend and I broke up. I’m going through all this, and granted, these are first-world problems like who gives a shit, but I just shared, you know the reality is like you know I’ve been doing this business thing for you know at that time three or four years and God I would just love to take a few days off like just a mental break. But the reality is you can’t, and um, you know, so I think it’s that acknowledgment and honesty and transparency that’s needed, and I think we see more of that. Um, I think there’s been, ah, an interesting pendulum shift and obviously hustles in the name like there’s very much, and Matt, I would love to hear your thoughts on this like. There’s the hustle culture right of entrepreneurship which I’m very much a buyer of, but it seemed like then that got so much negativity of like look at all these entrepreneur assholes that don’t value their mental health and screw these guys and now the pendulum has shifted the other way you know to um. You know it’s such an anti-work culture, and it’s prioritized. You know all this stuff and have your whatever, and the reality is the answers in between. But I mean, what are your thoughts on that? Like five years ago, it seemed to be totally okay to say, hey, if you’re an entrepreneur working through, you know, ah, a global pandemic and you’re bootstrapping things like. You should probably be putting in 100 hours just this week. Um, and now if I were to tweet that out right now, I would probably get canceled. Um, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, exactly.

28:22.30

Matt DeCoursey

Well, the trigger warning, um, because I’ll be honest, man, I don’t agree with it. I don’t agree with the work shaming thing, and I’ve been through it, and I actually have this happen in my own Startup Hustle chat group on Facebook.

28:30.70

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

28:41.35

Matt DeCoursey

I was in the Philippines last time. Now, look, I’m traveling by myself overseas, and I went to the office on Easter Sunday because all my employees are off. I was the only person there who in the ten thousand square foot 1 of 2 floors was a weird thing, and I took a picture and I just made a comment that I was proud of myself. I like to be the hardest working person at my own company because I don’t want to ever be the boss. That’s like, oh go to work, and then I’m out on the golf course for my own business that I own now look at it.

29:04.13

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

29:10.12

Jake Bjorseth

By the way, yeah, God forbid you to work hard for more than your people, right? Yeah.

29:18.76

Matt DeCoursey

I have not accomplished if you want to accomplish and do big things. It does not come easily, and it’s gonna be a lot of hard work, and if you think you’re gonna get that like this, the 4-hour work week. Bullshit, yeah, where are the easy companies? Let me take a crack at one because there aren’t any easy businesses.

29:27.78

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:37.70

Matt DeCoursey

And you’re not gonna get to where you need to be now. There’s a difference between working hard and working smart, and that’s a whole nother debate. But I don’t get how I think that it sets false expectations for entrepreneurs. I’m a believer in the hustle mentality, get out there and hustle. Do you know why? Okay, so I’m not saying I think Floyd Mayweather as a person is great, but as an athlete, he’s the only undefeated boxer. Forever now. Do you know that when he’s training, he gets up in the middle of the night and will go out and run miles, and you know why because he’s doing it because he knows you’re sleeping, and so much of my success has been through that I will outwork you I will outthink you I will you can maybe I’ll get up off the mat one extra time.

30:13.27

Jake Bjorseth

Um, oh yeah, yeah yeah.

30:28.91

Matt DeCoursey

I think that the shaming of hustle or work for entrepreneurs now looks like I don’t expect my employees to do any of that. Give me your full-time effort, and enjoy your time off. But for me, as an entrepreneur, you mentioned the term mental health. My mental health is going to be in a shittier state. If I sit around and let these problems fester without dealing with them and I write about that in my book to balance me, I become anxious because I have unresolved shit. So The anxiety will go away the sooner, and the faster you go to resolve whatever it is. That’s troubling you, and for me, it’s often something related to the business.

30:48.12

Jake Bjorseth

Um, oh yeah.

30:53.67

Jake Bjorseth

Can be.

31:04.86

Matt DeCoursey

Your business is growing quickly. Dude, Full Scale is about to have its fourth birthday, and I’m almost at 300 employees. If you think that that happened because we didn’t work hard on it. You’re wrong. So you know, I think that the idea of shaming it now I would. I didn’t get that shade from other um entrepreneurs.

31:09.20

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah. Um, yeah.

31:21.28

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

31:23.16

Matt DeCoursey

I went back and looked, but dude, it took it. It was like instant people are like you’re setting a terrible example. I’m like I would be if the whole entire company was sitting in the room with me. But yeah, it’s interesting and I just I don’t know I don’t I think if you give the effort. You’ll get 25% of the results.

31:38.80

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, you know, and that’s yeah.

31:41.96

Matt DeCoursey

And I’m probably going to get canceled. I’ll probably get quoted on this somewhere, but you know what, if you don’t like the opinion, That’s just it. It’s just my opinion. You don’t have to. I’m not giving you a command. I’m not saying that I’m right or wrong. But that’s where I’m at.

31:52.78

Jake Bjorseth

Oh yeah, no, and I’ve been in the same boat, and one of the things and I’m always pressed for my generation because you know as much as we think of ourselves as an organization pushing for Gen Z, and in these larger you know, organizations and brands really. I want to be able to provide opportunities to the most talented young people. That if they were to work anywhere else, they would start at the entry-level, and I want to be able to throw them on a project with one of the biggest brands in the world. Because I know they’ll crush it, and the conversation I have, you know, it’s not a conversation I have to have with my team because there’s an expectation there and there’s management. But for that outside of it, I just explain, hey. You know your work, your work capacity has to meet your ambition, and it has to do so within the time interval. You know it’s fine if you want to, you know, live on the beach and in Venice, California, and you want to have this awesome place, and you want to be in the best shape of your life, and you want to have you know an awesome relationship with someone, and you want to have a great social life, and you want to crush it in your job, and you want to make this much money, and you also want to have a million followers on TikTok like that’s fine. You can want all those things but.

32:58.10

Matt DeCoursey

Nothing gonna happen in 20 hours a week. Yeah yeah.

33:01.93

Jake Bjorseth

Exactly and but there’s a practicality to it, and that’s my thing is you can choose, and you have to get to the point where you can choose, and one of the biggest struggles with I think our generation, in particular, is we’re used to having from a consumer perspective. We have everything we want, whenever we want. I don’t go grocery shopping anymore. I pay the five dollars delivery fee through Instacart when I want a meal. Maybe I’ll go cook myself something healthy. Maybe I’ll just door dash it because it’s a hell of a lot easier, and I’d rather be working, you know, so we can get anything we want at any time.

33:24.40

Matt DeCoursey

So and if.

33:37.60

Jake Bjorseth

And I think that’s what you see with not only a lot of young entrepreneurs that you know will tell me their business model and that they’re gonna, you know, come after my agency and kick the shit out of me a year from now hey go for it buddy I’m ah I’ll be your one fan, you know maybe I can even invest.

33:55.90

Matt DeCoursey

Are.

33:56.41

Jake Bjorseth

I think it’s really important to understand that when you want so much, and you have that ambition, you have to be willing to work for it. And that’s my fear with this generation. I’m always trying to push for if you want to go be an executive or VP in your company. That’s not going to happen next year when you know you’re 24 years old. You got to play this out on a timetable, and you got to be realistic with it.

34:14.69

Matt DeCoursey

Or you take destiny into your own hands, and you can work through it. They say, you know, there are these kinds of general rules of thumb that after doing something for thousands of hours, you become an expert or a master. To me, I’m just speeding up that process.

34:29.60

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

34:32.77

Matt DeCoursey

I want to say one other thing. I don’t want to get too far off on this, but as I said, this is kind of a trigger warning. I think it’s really, really dangerous to teach young entrepreneurs that you’re going to begin a business and get where you want or need. Okay, fuck your mental health because you threw it out the window the moment you decided to start a business. If you think that you’re going to have a peaceful existence as a business owner, you’re wrong.

34:51.78

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yep.

34:59.24

Matt DeCoursey

Because there’s always a fire, there’s always something like my wife asking me halfway through Covid. She’s like, you seem to be handling this really well, and I said it’s just another problem on a much higher level.

35:10.97

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

35:12.96

Matt DeCoursey

And that’s the thing there’s always going to be problems. But I think that giving people the idea that they’re going to start a business now if it’s a side hustle, I get it. But if you think you’re going to do something full-time, you’re not going to really build much if you’re doing it 12 hours a week, so don’t start a business because you want more control of your life. You do not get that until later. When you’ve worked really hard on the business and have maybe found other people that can duplicate scale or change your reality, and you know because it’s going to be hell until that point, either that or you’re just doing multi-level marketing and trying to sell cosmetics in your living room. That’s not what we’re talking about here. If you’re an entrepreneur and you want to do something meaningful and something truly valuable, and by the way, you’re not going to get that house on Venice Beach because you’re not going to be able to afford it if you don’t work hard. It’s really expensive to live there. I got a buddy that loves up the street, right? Right? There is Venice, but you know what working hard is. So.

35:58.23

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah, oh yeah.

36:08.27

Matt DeCoursey

Just beware, and I think that I think we are giving entrepreneurs that impression that they’re going to come in, and you know, let’s get back to the Gen Z thing we didn’t talk about building the audience because you mentioned like, oh my God Dude I talked to so many people, and I’m sure you know many.

36:11.72

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

36:26.83

Matt DeCoursey

And you know we laugh as you’ve built an audience. I’ve built an audience. I’ve got a bunch of people that are influencers and wherever you want, and we all kind of laugh. We’re like yeah, we’re the overnight sensation five or nine years in the making.

36:38.80

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

36:40.32

Matt DeCoursey

So if you’re trying to create content and you’re trying to build an audience, you need to remember that we all started with an audience of one like every company was like Apple was in a garage at 1 point like that’s the, and you have to have reasonable expectations I worked in the music industry for ten years and the number one.

36:44.75

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah. Um, yeah.

36:58.65

Matt DeCoursey

The reason that people quit playing a musical instrument is that they’re not good right away. No one is you got to get the reps you got to put in the time you got to be wanted. You got to get it. Want it and be capable of doing it on some level.

37:01.92

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

37:12.73

Matt DeCoursey

You know, when it comes to building the audience unless you had prior fame or something else which took you an audience to build that you’re not going to get on the gram or anything else, and all of a sudden you’re just like p now when I mentioned Jay from urban necessities now he had none followers before Instagram was even. As cool as it was now when we went to start his Youtube channel, he had subscribers before we published a video. That is the only way that would ever happen.

37:37.22

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

37:43.33

Matt DeCoursey

And it took time to build the other audience. So I mean, have you experienced the same thing and with other people that you know or other influencers that it’s usually a lot more work than people think it is.

37:52.37

Jake Bjorseth

Yeah, and what’s so funny is everything you just said in terms of audience development when it comes to Gen Z. The same is true at every single level. We know that to be true at the s and b and the startup level, but I will tell you the same is true at a fortune thousand level. So. You know, take a brand like Coca-cola, for example, why should Gen Z give a shit? You know we haven’t grown up in this advertising era where we’ve seen your ads on TV. Do you think anyone’s actually watching those Tv ads? No, the highest traffic during commercials is on Twitter. You know when you’re watching a live sports game. Go check the Twitter activity during the commercial breaks, and I can assure you people are on Twitter a lot more than they are watching that commercial, and so you know, I think there are we live in this interesting era where we have legacy brands that have been built over decades thanks to this moat of supply chain and economics and you know ah high cost of marketing and. Now what we’re entering is the ability for anyone, any creator with any level of following, to start a brand overnight, have a Shopify store and sell it immediately and go compete with the biggest brands in the world, and what I’m so bullish on is to me I look at a company like L’oreal which we’ve had a chance to work with. L’oreal, I don’t see your biggest competition as other cosmetic brands that exist today. Your biggest competition is Addison Ray. It’s Rihanna. It’s you know, the girl from Kansas City with ah only followers but guess who can penetrate you know a small little cosmetic market. If we multiply that out by the number of creators, there are across the world. All of a sudden, we get to a very scary situation, and the retail shelf that we hold and value so much doesn’t mean shit to this generation because they’ll go buy it online, and so that’s what I find so fascinating with this creator led world. And why I’m so bullish on you know, ah to be the future of brands is building as an influencer as a creator or a media brand none then selling a product and service behind it and so you know Matt I would love to get your thoughts on that as well like I’m so fascinated by this. Creator economy and the ability for creators to launch their own brands. You know, have you dabbled in that much?

40:05.41

Matt DeCoursey

Well yeah, firsthand, I mean, it has a lot to do with why we started the podcast, and you know there were a number of different reasons, and you know we’re in this golden age of reach. Ah, so last year, people listened to this show in one hundred and 585 countries.

40:09.30

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

40:20.65

Jake Bjorseth

Jesus, here.

40:23.80

Matt DeCoursey

Before podcasting, I would have had to have had a radio deal with a Howard Stern kind of thing to have that kind of reach and that kind of broadcast. Now look, we started this podcast with a $200 microphone and a used laptop.

40:37.70

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

40:40.25

Matt DeCoursey

Suppose that’s the law that’s about as low of a barrier to entry as you’re going to find, and now we had to. We had to create it now. We’ve been talking about the audience. I think the influencer thing is but let’s set up what the expectation should be for most people. Because I think people look at you, know you know who has how many followers does Kylie Jenner have everywhere because it’s more than you’re ever going to have. Okay, because that’s supernatural and also guided by powerful people pushing them to that platform, people often talk to me.

41:04.36

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

41:12.44

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

41:17.21

Matt DeCoursey

About podcasts, and they’ll say, well, I have a podcast, but I’m really frustrated because I see you got None downloads, and I only got ah on my last episode. I only got 50, and I asked him. I said if 50 people showed up tomorrow to hear what he had to say about anything, would you be excited that they’re overwhelming. They’re like fuck. Yeah, that would be huge. Okay, then you’re successful so that you know that’s where it starts, and I think that that’s the cool part about being an influencer on any scale.

41:41.70

Jake Bjorseth

Yep.

41:49.00

Matt DeCoursey

That is good for you now. Personally, if I went back to 50 downloads an episode. Had we been like, whoa, as apple podcasts up, right? But we were at that point once too, and you know that’s the grind, so you’re going to get what you put into it. I think consistency is the key.

41:55.50

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, ah.

42:07.42

Matt DeCoursey

And then also the quality, and I want to point out one other thing like you mentioned your you I haven’t earned the hoodie from LinkedIn yet I want it. I’m jealous. I don’t even know it was a thing until now, and now I’m like, really I need one but I.

42:15.92

Jake Bjorseth

We’ll see if we can make it happen. I’ll have my people call your people, and we’ll yeah well.

42:23.48

Matt DeCoursey

I just like to do shit the hard way. So I’m trying to figure it out for like two years, and then I’ll call but look at Jake’s stuff that he puts out. It doesn’t look like shit. It’s thought out, and it gets to the point real quick, and that matters.

42:25.62

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

42:38.91

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

42:40.91

Matt DeCoursey

That matters, don’t make your content look like a kidnapping video like a ransom video like just don’t it’s not. You know it was not expensive. You’re carrying the power of any smartphone I mentioned working in the music industry. I used to work for Roland, the world’s biggest maker of electronic musical instruments. So I’m credible on this. You have more. Video and audio recording and computing power in your pocket right now than I was selling to professionals twenty years ago, and so that’s it you can use it. You can use it, and it’s there.

43:08.20

Jake Bjorseth

Oh yeah, we put Maine on the moon with lesser technology. You know.

43:17.16

Matt DeCoursey

There’s a way to go about it and just make it not suck because I think that if you put out the crap, you’re going to get crap results. But back, I do agree on the micro-influencer thing because you use the example of someone in Kansas City with 100000 followers who likes the look. Your bar shouldn’t be Kylie Jenner. It should be doing you know I have you did? How do you feel about this? I had someone say to me the other day they were shitting on me and Startup Hustle saying that I do all of this for my own personal gain, and I’ll validate it I do.

43:35.28

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

43:51.26

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

43:53.15

Matt DeCoursey

I Do it all to promote my fucking business and to drive customers into what I do. If you don’t like my content, I’ll give you your money back, but it’s okay, but I’m saying it’s okay to be self-serving.

43:57.00

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

44:07.84

Matt DeCoursey

I’m here to promote my business, and if you will listen to our experiences and whatever, all I ask is that you consider us if you are buying what I’m selling. I don’t have a whole lot of opinions. I’m not doing a whole lot of promotion. But yeah, that’s part of why we do it. It’s also a Full Scale own Startup Hustle and pays.

44:16.15

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

44:26.55

Matt DeCoursey

There are a lot of people that participate in making this happen, like come on the show and say some credible shit and I good contact Jake he can help you there you go? That’s why we’re here, though, right.

44:27.72

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

44:33.86

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I think that that.

44:41.00

Matt DeCoursey

I Get canceled if I was a Gen Z or saying that when I get canceled because I don’t think my peers would cancel me.

44:44.30

Jake Bjorseth

You know, I think it’s I think the cancel culture is inevitable like I think everyone’s on the chopping block to some context you’re going to fence someone? Um, no yeah.

44:51.20

Matt DeCoursey

Sure, But I think if you’re not offending someone that you’re, I actually say that a lot you have to pick a side of the line to be on if you’re not pissing someone off, you might be a little too neutral on some things.

44:59.59

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

45:05.85

Jake Bjorseth

Yeah, you know, and I think it’s much better to be authentic and honest and deal with the ramifications of it. Um, as opposed to not, I think people can sense. They can feel those things.

45:10.31

Matt DeCoursey

Um, me.

45:18.89

Jake Bjorseth

You know, that will be my biggest challenge. Like, you know, you mentioned that the content process is the grind to get there and make sure you’re pushing out good quality. Um, one of the things that I’ve loved to see over the past couple of years as Tiktok has exploded is. All these corporate brands that spend none or hundreds of millions of dollars a year in marketing try to operate in this Tiktok world and just do not know how to do it exactly, and then you know meanwhile.

45:36.60

Matt DeCoursey

Dollars of your party Trump. Yeah, it’s very foreign, very foreign. Yeah.

45:49.26

Jake Bjorseth

You know, our team of TikTok wizards, you know, can get in there and figure out a plan within a couple of minutes and go film like crazy, and so it’s been fascinating. You see that shift. Um, you know, in the marketing landscape, but whether it’s Tiktok, Instagram, or LinkedIn, regardless of the platform. The best way to do it is you just learn this stuff by doing. You know some of my Linkedin posts, and I can tell you I certainly think them through. But it’s a lot more intuitive, like none of my content is scheduled out. I don’t have anything really planned outside of like, you know, Dropbox with some videos here and there. The majority of all this stuff is more so on the fly. It’s intuitive. You know we’re going to have a conversation about this thing, and then when I’m done with this podcast episode, I’m going to think of an idea and post it to Linkedin real quickly because I’ve been practicing on it. You know it’s going to come naturally. You know, so that’s the case for any platform and developing any sphere of influence.

46:40.80

Matt DeCoursey

Well, I think that if you’re trying to have a conversation with people that you want to listen to, like, Okay, what did I say before I hit record because I say the same thing to everyone? This is conversational. I’ve got some. I did not use my notes; I didn’t, but I have them.

46:49.25

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

46:56.68

Matt DeCoursey

You could fall back on it. I don’t. I ain’t the same. I don’t like to plan the content. I don’t know if some people are better than that than others, but I can always tell if you’re reading a script or a prompter. I can tell.

47:08.67

Jake Bjorseth

Um, oh yeah.

47:12.25

Matt DeCoursey

And some of that just be you. I want to point out one other thing because I think we owe it to people to mention that there are some things that people don’t want to hear about with your content, especially if they’re completely unrelated to your business and the three that I’ve always religion sex and politics.

47:27.41

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

47:29.75

Matt DeCoursey

Unless you’re in the business of one of those 3, just don’t even ah, talk about them, and we never get into it. That’s actually literally a written brand standard here at Startup Hustle because people aren’t tuning in to hear where I stand politically or religiously, and I have no business sex talking about inappropriate is inappropriate unless we have the sex coach entrepreneur.

47:47.35

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

47:49.67

Matt DeCoursey

Been on four times, and those are titled sex coaching, if you want to go get the whole course, but you can see some people that well, locally, we have an AC repair company guy, won’t name them. You probably know, well fuck it. It’s Bob Hamilton, um.

48:05.77

Jake Bjorseth

Um, oh yeah, yeah.

48:08.62

Matt DeCoursey

Who you know, you see ah I’m all over the band, so he didn’t even know to own that company anymore. He’s not even involved with these sold to someone else, and he ran on a remarkably conservative platform with a very opinionated set of ads, and every time I’d see him, I’m like I’m cringing for whoever bought his company.

48:19.16

Jake Bjorseth

Very. Um, yeah.

48:27.76

Matt DeCoursey

Because it’s what it is now. Maybe yeah, look, I can go both ways. Maybe the people on the right are like, I will not use any other AC repair than this, but you can do it. You can kill your brand pretty quickly, too, and if none of those things I mentioned are related to your brand, look, keep it in. Don’t put it on. Don’t fly it under your company’s flag unless. And lastly, the only people you’re trying to reach are that.

48:49.98

Jake Bjorseth

Yeah, you know, and I think with this like with this generation growing up in the social media sphere. It’s created such an opinionated generation that they know because of social gratification. They believe that their opinion and perspective, and ideas on anything and everything matter. And that it matters to the extreme, and while I’m all for sharing perspectives and opinions. You know what? What I like to remind those around me and what I like to have conversations around is look. I Want to talk about the things that I can control, and I want to talk about ideas that I can implement. And I want to talk about actions that I can take because if I can’t control it, you know what I’m talking about. It’s not even worth my time to talk about it, and so you know, national politics and this thing and war over here and did it. Ah, sure, I can share my perspective, but my perspective on it doesn’t mean a damn thing. So.

49:31.81

Matt DeCoursey

Down. Yeah, I agree.

49:44.89

Jake Bjorseth

I’m going to focus on this little Gen Z sphere, and if I can help you know brands reach this generation and, in doing so, create a better consumer marketplace, Then that’s awesome, and you know I can sleep at night if I can do that.

49:56.36

Matt DeCoursey

I think Gen Z invented cancel culture. So I think, especially if we’re talking about reshaping the Gen Z Marketing message, I think that’s where you have your biggest if that’s who you’re trying to reach, then really take my advice on that because you know, like I said just I don’t know.

50:10.80

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah, yeah.

50:14.73

Matt DeCoursey

Decide what your brand’s about and stick with it, and it shouldn’t unless you’re an opinion maker. I don’t hear anyone listening to someone somehow as we are nearing the end of this has been fun, man. I’ve enjoyed this. So once again. Today’s episode of Startup Hustle is brought to you by WIX. If you’re an entrepreneur or founder trying to figure out how you want to successfully navigate the rocket ship that is hyper-growth, you gotta ask yourself. Do you want or need to control your company’s online presence internally and externally? Ah, friends over at WIX Enterprise can help. WIX Enterprise is a platform that provides businesses with an all in None solution for all types of growth and business needs to create high-performing websites for your business, all of which are backed by enterprise-grade security as well as expert support. To help you manage and scale online, head over to http://WIX.com from our information. There’s a link in the show notes. There’s also a link to many things related to Jake and Trndsttrs. I really do want you to click those links, folks, and follow them on Linkedin, if anything, just to. Get a better understanding of how quality content is created, and I will tell you I don’t. I wouldn’t say that if I didn’t believe it, I don’t give a lot of endorsements, but I’m always ah, I follow you man, I follow you? Um, you know so. Yeah, just check out, check it out, so here we are at the end of the episode. I end my episodes with what I call the founders’ freestyle. I say my episodes. Suppose you’re not aware I am not the only host of the show. So make sure you tune in to listen to what Andrew Lauren and the other Matt have to say. Um, now Jacob mentioned the Founders Freestyle. I give all my guests a chance to freestyle for a minute, and I’ve had people actually rap, recite poetry, and do a whole lot of other things. But really, what it is is a chance to wrap up anything. Is it? I like to talk about the things that stood out during the episode, and then sometimes things go pretty quickly, and we forget to say a couple of things. It’s up to you, man. It’s your freestyle. So here. We go.

52:17.87

Jake Bjorseth

I would say that the biggest takeaway here is for those in the startup ecosystem; I would challenge everyone to start pumping out content on the Tiktok platform. Do so right away. It’s the least produced content medium on the planet. You don’t need a camera. You don’t even need an iPhone. You can film with whatever you got and start pushing out any and all content. They post one or two videos a day, and then the other thing is to figure out unique ways if you’re a consumer brand. To integrate influencers into what you’re doing. You don’t have to go pay the biggest influencers in the world to find someone with 8600000 followers to integrate them in because to me, this is the next wave, and you know the CPMs we’re seeing the acquisition costs that we’re seeing are crushing everything. Um, you know, across the board. So. Invest in those two things, and it’ll do wonders for you.

53:15.36

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, I agree, and you know, thanks for joining me. I don’t remember this, but there was a rumor at the office that you once came and visited us at our office. Either around the time of your high school graduation or several years ago before Trndsttrs, was that true? I didn’t remember it, I didn’t remember it, and I remember. I feel like I would have remembered that. But yeah.

53:34.35

Jake Bjorseth

Potentially I.

53:41.80

Jake Bjorseth

Um, so I think I met with, I don’t know if he’s a friend of yours, Mason. Ah yes, I met with oh yeah, so then I saw something.

53:46.79

Matt DeCoursey

Nice and gray. Yeah, if he works, he works at Full Scale. Yeah yeah, okay, okay, that makes a lot more sense now. I remember that now so I was like, yes, I was trying to remember it, and 1 of our employees was like yeah, you were sitting there talking to him. I was like.

54:05.51

Jake Bjorseth

Um, maybe it’s another Gen Z in Kansas City running an agency, right? Yeah so.

54:05.57

Matt DeCoursey

That was a long time ago. I was I, you know, I just discredit Gen Z for all the Vietnam kittens, you know I look back at this episode, I think that there are a few things that we talked about that are pretty key. Um. You know, regardless of what you sell, if your advertising or marketing message is trash or it looks like trash. Um, your results are going to be trash, I think one quick tip that I could live with that, and I get ah you know I I really picked this up from my book ah editor who is always yelling Matt lead with the need That’s how you get people’s attention and with Gen Z and we didn’t get into this like the ah the look we’re you’re talking about you mentioned Tiktok you have stories real shorts. All these things that are all really short form, meaning like you don’t have 30 seconds.

54:59.80

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

54:59.95

Matt DeCoursey

Maybe 3 seconds to get someone’s attention, so you got to shape your content and your message like without a doubt the most successful social media ad and so many people listening so found this show because we have the Startup Hustle logo and it’s as a podcast for entrepreneurs. Okay, so that gets your attention.

55:14.80

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

55:18.90

Matt DeCoursey

The need might be like I’d like to associate or listen to other entrepreneurs for Full Scale. It’s literally higher software engineers. It can be that simple, but you gotta get people’s attention if your content or your message if it takes 15 seconds to get to what it is to the problem you solve. The solution you offer or why the advantages or benefits of whatever it is that you sell or do you already lost the audience. No one’s like 15 seconds sounds like a really short amount of time, and it’s not and not on the world of the internet and ah you know and then also if you want to you know, just try it man just look.

55:43.28

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yes.

55:57.80

Matt DeCoursey

Everyone, everyone that you might follow, listens to observe any of that we all made our first post. We all had our None podcast. We all did our None video, and we all look back at those early posts later with absolute terror.

56:11.84

Jake Bjorseth

Oh, yeah.

56:14.00

Matt DeCoursey

That we released something that we’re like, oh my gosh, was I really this bad? I went back to the first five (5) episodes of Startup Hustle. I don’t actually want to put a message on episode one because some people, like I went back to episode one, I’m like I don’t like . . .

56:28.57

Jake Bjorseth

Um, yeah.

56:33.50

Matt DeCoursey

Start from the newer stuff back but look the same way. We talked about everything else. It’s reps. It’s understanding. You’re not going to build an audience overnight. Also, expect on some levels, you may have to pay to promote that. Just jump and start to figure it out. Ask people to share it, and you have to make an effort.

56:43.51

Jake Bjorseth

Um, move on.

56:50.60

Matt DeCoursey

This isn’t like the movie field of dreams. You don’t just build it, and they show up. But I will tell you one thing you’re never going to follow. You’re never going to get the attention. You’re never going to reach the audience you need if you don’t put anything out there. It’s pretty straightforward. I think it’s a pretty binary thing.

56:52.58

Jake Bjorseth

Um.

57:06.54

Matt DeCoursey

Jake, thanks for joining me. And congratulations on all this success you’re having at Trndsttrs. Make sure for those of you listening to click the link and get some really great advice about how to reach Gen Z.

57:16.62

Jake Bjorseth

Thanks so much, Matt.