Ep. #1026 - Successful Entrepreneurs Solve Problems

00:00.00
Matt DeCoursey
And we’re back, back for another episode of Startup Hustle. Matt DeCoursey here to have another conversation I’m hoping helps your business grow. So what’s the biggest problem that you need to solve at your business? That is easily my favorite question. I talk to entrepreneurs and probably what we’ll talk a little bit about.

I want to remind everyone that today’s episode Startup Hustle is powered by fullscale.io. Hiring developers is difficult and Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably. And how the platform to help you manage that team? Go to fullscale.io to learn more.

With me today I have Sarah Smith. And Sarah is the founder of the Dyrt and I mean the Dyrt as in D-Y-R-T. You can go to dyrt.com, spelled like I just mentioned, when you scroll down and read the show notes.

Straight out of Portland Oregon, one of my favorite cities and towns in America, Sarah, welcome to Startup Hustle.

01:07.86
Sarah Smith
Thank you so much, man. Thanks for having me.

01:12.12
Matt DeCoursey
I’m glad I want to get into the dirt today. So we can go ahead and do that. I love starting my conversations with a little bit about your backstory. So what’s the Dyrt?

01:13.86
Sarah Smith
It is.

01:24.57
Sarah Smith
The Dyrt is the top-ranked camping app out there in the United States. If you go to an app store, you will see the Dyrt if you look for “camping”. We have about 30,000,000 visits to our website each year.

01:38.00
Matt DeCoursey
Wow.

01:40.70
Sarah Smith
But what makes the dirt really special and I’m sure we’re going to get into that a lot here is that we have the most user-generated content. We have 8,000,000 pieces of user-generated content on our site app more than anyone else out there. And that’s what really makes us special is that that content and that community that we’ve spent the past ten years building.

02:05.50
Matt DeCoursey
So still with the backstory theme. What’s the backstory that brought you to creating this?

02:14.63
Sarah Smith
Oh my goodness. That’s a good question. I started the dirt because I was extremely frustrated with the experience of trying to find a campground online. My husband and I had just moved to Oregon state. We didn’t know.

02:30.10
Matt DeCoursey
Average.

02:31.49
Sarah Smith
Every week we’d go camping at the weekend and every about Tuesday of that week we’d fight over who’s going to go look for a camp online because it was so painful. Um, and we realized what was missing was kind of this yelp or trip advisor specifically for camping. Before starting the dirt I I like to call myself an entrepreneur I have I’ve never done a startup before this I had never worked in technology and I had never worked in camping. Um, so I like to meet with fellow founders and make sure they understand that don’t let any of those things stop. You.

03:03.65
Matt DeCoursey
I.

03:10.55
Sarah Smith
Um, because if you have a passion for something and you really are solving a problem that needs to be solved. Ah good things tend to happen.

03:18.38
Matt DeCoursey
Well, the passion piece is a key ingredient and you know I think that the best businesses and for those of you that are regular listeners. You probably know what I’m going to say as a good business solves a problem and if you’re passionate about solving that problem. It makes it so much easier to not quit. Like for real like not quit the business because um, regardless of the experience you have with you’ve built tech before or not or whether you’ve done been a business owner before or not any of that, especially when it comes to software. You’re going to learn a couple things 1 all businesses have problems and 2 all software has bugs. Doesn’t matter how well you build it. It’s always the case. So those are 2 you those are like you that’s like friend my world that’s like the law of gravity or anything else like it’s not a theory It’s a law that those 2 things are going to occur so and I think we’re in agreement that successful entrepreneurs solve problems.

03:57.48
Sarah Smith
Ah.

04:03.59
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah.

04:13.83
Matt DeCoursey
I joked before I hit record that we solve a problem as a business and that we learn to solve the problems in our business and often around the business when you were building the dirt. What’s what was like the okay so we understand the the camping thing and I get it because actually. I subscribe I know you know the alltrails app because it’s kind of in your space and and I I actually subscribe to that even though I only use it a couple times a year because we would go I live in Kansas we go to you know Colorado or whatever and I want I want the down low.

04:34.69
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah, yeah, total.

04:48.47
Matt DeCoursey
Like what’s a good trail. Is it crowded. Is it good for kids and stuff like that and I’ve really enjoyed it because you know because it gave me the real thing and it sometimes just googling this stuff doesn’t give you the real answer I want to hear what people have to say about it though that was really great. So I like what you’re doing with camping I’m going to check it out because.

05:04.60
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah, yeah, do yeah yeah yeah.

05:08.15
Matt DeCoursey
And don’t go camping a whole lot. But if I did I want to hear about you know what? the camp Grant Camp sites are like So so what? What are some of the problems you ran into that you had to solve immediately.

05:16.55
Sarah Smith
Well, it’s just you know people don’t do things much anymore without researching it in advance. You know you, you would never go state at airbnb if you hadn’t read other people’s views of it and seen their pictures. You don’t you know most of us don’t go to yelp without reading the reviews and looking at the pictures and I was starting to realize early on well the same is true for camping in camping 80000000 americans go camping so it’s you know it’s a big market of people and you want those. That time a weight count you want it to be good. Um, and I remember early on ending up at campsites that were like next to the ah road and I’m like I wish someone had just told me you know and you’re not going to get that on the government websites that are very 1 dimensional and basic information. But I you know I wish Matt would have told me that this camp around in Kansas is actually not a good one and site 7 specifically is right next to the road. Um, so what we decided to do was. Crowdsource information because you can’t get this information on your own. You need to start building a community and leverage that community and incentivize that community to provide this amazing content that’s going to help all of us.

06:43.50
Sarah Smith
Have a better experience when we’re camping.

06:46.80
Matt DeCoursey
So I was just reading and the most recent or 1 of the most recent articles of the Harvard business review. That’s how I make myself sound fancy by the way. Um I was reading a magazine is really what it came down to but there was a I just read this the other day it was there was very in-depth article about. About reviews and the shape of and the design pattern and process of reviews needing to change um in some ways and also the difficulty that a lot of sites have getting reviews especially in the beginning. I’ve talked about this a lot on the show when it comes to like marketplace apps where you have to have a buyer and a seller in some ways you’re similar um, meaning like the hardest part is the population of it in the beginning was that a challenge.

07:26.63
Sarah Smith
Yeah, oh huge challenge. Huge huge challenge and when I started to realize what I wanted to do. The first thing I did was I worked with a contractor to build a wordpress site.

07:40.10
Matt DeCoursey
Me.

07:41.52
Sarah Smith
Because I was not going to in ice meet So many founders who have a vision of what they want to build and they’re not going to push go live until it’s like that and like you got to get something out and start testing it get an mvp out see how people react to it.

07:52.40
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, yeah.

07:58.43
Sarah Smith
So we worked on this very simple wordpress site where I ah I am I’m like send me the name of a campground in your state. The review for photos and a video email it to me. Um, and I will put it up as a blog post just so I could start to gauge. That this was indeed a problem for other people that they were experiencing and not just me. So once we got to a point where I’m like okay this is working I have people who seem to be interested in this. Um, then we kind of went on to the next level of our Mvp and and just kind of kept building from there. But. it’s really it’s a lot to ask people to come to your website. It’s even more to ask them to join your website but then to ask them to provide content to your website or app that that’s a lot to ask so we’ve. We’ve always focused on how do we incentivize people to give us this content and um, there’s something called the one nine ninety rule of community development have you ever heard of that. It’s it’s really interesting and we were.

09:03.13
Matt DeCoursey
No, no, let’s talk about it. That’s one one nine ninety are those separate is like one nine and ninety can I guess is it 1 person will.

09:11.86
Sarah Smith
Yes, the one night exactly yeah

09:21.22
Matt DeCoursey
You you probably need ninety people to actually give a shit to have 1 person that will actually talk about it. Is it somewhere in that ballpark.

09:28.89
Sarah Smith
Um, that’s close. That’s a good and we should we should trademark that 1 for sure too. Um.

09:32.30
Matt DeCoursey
I think that that’s probably the most realistic expectation of what I’m about to hear because like I mean that well one of the rules I’ve I’ve done a lot of things in life and when it comes to reviews or feedback is kind of similar like that one in a hundred like.

09:39.31
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah.

09:48.52
Matt DeCoursey
There’s like only 1 person out of the hundred that’ll find the error the issue or the problem on your site will actually be like hey this is broken so it becomes pretty painful when you realize that like an error has existed for a really long time and you’re like oh my god.

09:54.39
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah, yeah.

10:05.85
Sarah Smith
Um, that is super painful. Um, so yeah, so the one nine ninety rule is is this idea that 1% of your community online. Um, they are the people.

10:06.79
Matt DeCoursey
All right? So one nine ninety let’s hear about it.

10:19.88
Sarah Smith
Contributing the content. They’re the people who do Yelp reviews they’re the people who do trip eventser reviews. Um I Always think it’s way more than that I always had assumed it was more than that I’m like everyone’s reviewing but me um, but I’m not a reviewer. Um.

10:21.71
Matt DeCoursey
Me.

10:30.86
Matt DeCoursey
Do it.

10:37.38
Sarah Smith
And then 9% will like it or upvoted or share it and then 90% of your community do nothing but consume it. Um, and I think it’s. Easy for people to just focus on the 90% because that’s where the majority of the community is. But if you’re like us and you’re building an online community and you need user generated content to make make the platform Valuable. We really had to focus on that 1% and how do we incentivize those people to keep coming back to our ah our platform over and over and over again and and that’s what we did.

11:17.48
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, the article that I read the premise was that you know and your it was very much in agreement with everything you’ve said about like people don’t want to buy things that don’t have reviews and at the same time There’s this like also this problem when it comes to. Um, competitive stuff which was review fraud which has led to a lot of people not trusting reviews because they feel fake like they’re left but like they’re they’re synthetic or bad reviews are left by 1 business about another um in a shielded guarded kind of anonymous way and it just like.

11:40.34
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah.

11:53.76
Matt DeCoursey
And then you know it really got into detail about the the challenges and the difficulties that a lot of really big box I’m talking Yelp Amazon places like that have with getting quality reviews and you know like Google has the what is it. The local guide. And stuff like that. So all of these inherently led to some kind of incentive from trusted quality reviewers that were creating content and and you know you talk about the problem. So um, you know building. Ah what you’re and this is now no longer.

12:11.22
Sarah Smith
Um.

12:27.42
Matt DeCoursey
Ah, culturally appropriate title. But Seth Godin has a book called tribes I say that because it’s not I don’t think he’s from a tribe but you know so I don’t think we’re supposed to use that term anymore. Please don’t cancel me people I’m talking about his book. Not mine. But with that the idea is.

12:33.39
Sarah Smith
Um, right guest What is that horrible.

12:45.50
Matt DeCoursey
So he actually uses. Ah, ah you know I kind of grew up a hippie myself. So I you know went to grateful dad and fish and Umphreys Mcgee and goose concerts and all this stuff and like and there are so many people there that are there just as much to see the other people that are there.

12:54.71
Sarah Smith
Um.

13:01.61
Matt DeCoursey
As they are to see what’s on the stage and this becomes this really powerful and influential thing if you can build the tribe or you can build the community because um, you know like you that you want the people that use these communities to find as much value in each other as they find from you.

13:19.44
Sarah Smith
Um, right.

13:19.75
Matt DeCoursey
The product the performer or the brand and and so the thing is though is like how do you pick up that original speed and and whatever and I think that in any any way you can get that done. Do it. Another important thing was especially like in the I’m not a big fan of the term influencer. By the way. Um, but for people that have followers or have a voice that that is heard by some is to not mute the people that have something bad to say about you. There is actually a review in this podcast that says Matt is so obnoxious I agree. I agree what do you do when you agree with a bad review and it’s like I listened this episode and I forwarded through all the parts where he is talking. That’s how I listen to the show too. So we’re on the same page. But with that you know people are not. Everyone’s going to like what you have to say but you have to foster.

14:05.31
Sarah Smith
Are.

14:12.36
Matt DeCoursey
And and kind of develop that thick skin in and around whatever you’re doing So in this case I don’t think a campground is probably going to speak back but in some cases I they might because I think some of them are privately owned right.

14:23.67
Sarah Smith
Yeah, there are a lot of private um privately owned campgrounds in the United States and you know the the number of campers is going up every year so during the pandemic in 2020 camping became.

14:35.28
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, that was hot. Yeah.

14:38.99
Sarah Smith
The thing to do and it corresponded with us launching our pro subscription. So you said you use all trails. So it’s the same concept. It’s the pro version thirty six bucks a year annual. You know, hopefully annual renewals. Um.

14:46.20
Matt DeCoursey
He.

14:56.45
Sarah Smith
And we were just amazed when we launched that and just saw people buying it like every couple minutes a new pro purchase and you know is really exciting but we didn’t know is was Twenty Twenty a blip is is it going to last and luckily in in 2021 think 8000000 additional americans camped for the first time and then last year 7000000 more americans camped for the first time. So now we’re up to 80000000 americans camping a lot of them are are new to camping and so they really rely on this community that we’ve built to help them. Decipher where to go and where they might want to spend their weekend or weeks when they’re when they’re out there camping.

15:42.70
Matt DeCoursey
You know, not related to that I have a confession because as I’ve scrolled to the bottom of my notes I now see a very and detailed reference about one nine ninety so um yeah maybe I wasn’t as prepared as a user of the dirt would be when. Wanting to get information about campaigns. So I apologize for that. But ah, okay, so the way as you describe the wordpress site and all that the 1 thing that there was a couple things that went through my head 1 this is this does not sound very scalable and man that sounds like a lot of work.

16:04.68
Sarah Smith
Um, felt head. Um.

16:17.78
Matt DeCoursey
Entering all this stuff manually. Um, when it came to building technology and I’m in the tech and software space like how did you begin to make this scale because it sounds like you have millions of users and that is a completely different beast when it comes to like the whole thing because well first off.

16:25.81
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah.

16:35.90
Matt DeCoursey
Um, you’re on this you well you’re in a spotlight for a whole lot of people and you know how did you begin to to make this or or get to the point of scalability where millions and millions of people could use it and and pay for it every year

16:49.29
Sarah Smith
Yeah, yeah, Well for one one thing we raise $24000000 and that’s definitely helped us be able to scale. Um, back in the wordpress site days That’s back when I was a you know a solo founder just trying to understand if people wanted to to be a part of this. Um. So you know I think really hiring good people early On. Um I think you know we’ve right now we probably have about 40 employees um getting getting good tech people who can help like I said I am not a tech.

17:23.75
Matt DeCoursey
How like I’m said I’m gonna to person.

17:27.11
Sarah Smith
Person myself my first ever full time hire. Our cto is still with us to this day. Um, and you know just working closely with him I think founders really need to be mindful of their first hires, especially if they’re non-technical people. And I was really fortunate with with the person that that we hired there. Um, yeah, and and then just like for us scaling. You know we I knew that. If you can build this community then there’s there’s many ways to monetize that community but that wasn’t really a focus early on which was not an easy thing to tell your investors. Um, but I’m like you just have to believe me that if we build a community and we. Get this 8000000 pieces of content and build a super engaged community of campers that there’s ways to monetize that. Um, and so it was great that we found very patient investors who are willing to take let us take the time to do that. Super hard work. Hard work of building the community. Um and then turning on the monetization which has been an amazing you know transformation for our company.

18:50.56
Matt DeCoursey
Was there a silver bullet that solved the problem of attracting and retaining customers.

18:58.68
Sarah Smith
Um, well it depends what you mean by Customer because you know we look at yeah I mean are you for for keeping our users whether they’re paid or non-paid users. It’s just like we we have to be providing useful content for them. Um.

19:00.48
Matt DeCoursey
Or user user and.

19:16.61
Sarah Smith
And you know the the content of the user generated content. We We could never charge for that because it’s given to us by our community. Um, so after a while we heard from our users saying hey you know what I would really like is if you had. Offline Capabilities. So if I’m going out to the national forest this weekend and I lose cell service I can still access this information or you know I have to work on the road nowadays and I love to Camp I Live full time in my rv. But I don’t know where the cell service is going to be so if you added a map like that I would pay for that So We started hearing enough from our users and that’s what we turned and into the dirt pro. Um, these really useful tools that that make it easier for people to go camping.

20:03.71
Matt DeCoursey
We talk about experts and I want to remind everyone that finding expert software developers doesn’t have to be difficult, especially when you visit fullscale io where you can build a software team quickly and affordably use the full scale platform to define your technical needs and then see what available. Developers testers and leaders are ready to join your team full scale io it only takes 2 minutes to fill out those questions people and we can match you up with expert people and you know that’s the that’s the key for us when we’re hiring and is. Ah, so we all of our employees are in the Philippines and for those of you that are aren’t new to tech. You know that America has a giant shortage of software developers. Um, hundreds of thousands of open positions and what the problem we solve is trying to make it fast, easy and affordable for people to hire. And build a team offshore and kind of augment the staff that they have locally much like Sarah said in the beginning of of any tech business. You know it breaks my heart I talked to founders all the time that have gotten the wrong advice the wrong input the wrong hire and someone you know they talk to their. Second cousins husbands. You know, third cousin who told them to build it and a certain kind of technology that is antiquated or no one uses or I don’t know it’s just the wrong decision and I really think that the problem you need to solve in the beginning is is getting good advice.

21:30.86
Matt DeCoursey
Um I love the fact that your Cto is still with you I feel like with the camping stuff. There’s so many enthusiasts for that that that probably has helped with I’m assuming that the people that work at the dirt like camping. Yeah you.

21:42.35
Sarah Smith
Yeah, for the most part. Yeah, we actually pay pay our employees a four hundred dollars bonus if they go camping use our product and then present about their experience to the team.

21:54.27
Matt DeCoursey
Well I’m sure that helps them build a better product too. I think that if if you can’t if you that you know you talked about other shocking things that talk to people a lot who’s well talk to their teams and they don’t I’m like so what? what have you used the product for what did you like. My number 1 rule with building software is is this annoying and if the answer to that is not a clear. No, you still have work to do and you know I mean because it’s like you can have great content. You can have great concept. But if your software has annoying little traits to it. People won’t use it. It’s just that simple and um I mean people will literally throw throw it out in 2 seconds if you if it’s yeah like I’m a big onboarding nut. So that’s why I said like at full scale I want less than 2 minutes of questions.

22:44.24
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah.

22:47.80
Matt DeCoursey
And we can match you up with like a whole bunch of people that do what you do do? what help you solve the problem that you need because the more the more steps the less success which is is usually part of it. Um, let’s talk it in second you know you mentioned raising what you say 24000000 right

23:02.55
Sarah Smith
24000000 yeah

23:07.30
Matt DeCoursey
So when it came to doing that. Um, you know there’s obviously problems that you need to solve ah presenting the the whole fundraising thing is a real hot topic both with guests and just people that I talk to all the time. So. What’s some advice you can give to other entrepreneurs that want to raise cash. Yeah.

23:28.34
Sarah Smith
Yeah that’s a good question and I I talked to a lot of fellow entrepreneurs here in Portland and um I think what we have found to be very important is to as you’re building your network of of people. That could possibly invest make sure you capture that information and this is just a very like practical thing to do but every um quarter we send for years. We’ve sent out this. Um, this update to mentors and investors in the dirt. And it sounds like a small thing to do. But when you talk to someone you ask them if they’re interested in investing and they say no, you just say hey do you mind if I put you on my update list. It’s just 4 times a year um and you know some of the people we talked to early on who said no to us they said no to us. Sometimes because they don’t do rounds that small they were waiting for something bigger to come along and then you know as we got bigger and we did bigger rounds then they did come on board and they had been kept abreast of all our progress and what we had been doing for years so it was ah it was a you know it wasn’t wasn’t hard for them to. Want to come on board at that point so that’s a good practical tip I like to give other founders.

24:45.44
Matt DeCoursey
I I think the tip I I give the most is to remember that especially in the earliest stages that investors are investing in the founder more than anything else and so go in and be you and I also had someone say something to me. Years ago that is just really stuck with me and that’s don’t be afraid to sell your big vision. You know when you go in and you know investors get pitched all the time I actually just published a ah ah video about this on the startup Hustle Youtube channel and yeah, too many people go in and they have this little tiny vision. They’re like yeah I want to raise $25000 and I think we’ll be great in Punkcitani Pennsylvania and you know it’s this like little market and investors get pitched all day every day so go in and just tell them about you know, like.

25:31.30
Sarah Smith
Um, right.

25:38.44
Matt DeCoursey
In your case like hey there are 80000000 people that go camping and they need help with this and that’s a big addressable market and I think that also like like you mentioned with the beginning is like telling people to have the patience to hey we have to build this community before it’s monetized. Um, I think that you know the the moot the Facebook movie. Um, you know hit hit that pretty early and he’s like hey we don’t even know what this is yet. We don’t need to kill it with ads like let’s just build this this population of things up before we because ads are annoying and a lot of stuff is annoying. Yeah.

25:56.22
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah.

26:02.14
Sarah Smith
What.

26:11.83
Sarah Smith
Um, ads are and Matt to go back to what you’re saying like when we would even then we knew we it’s a 80000000 and of americans camp people camp all over the world.

26:13.55
Matt DeCoursey
So.

26:25.68
Sarah Smith
We want to be known as the trip advisor for camping. So if you are a camper in this country. You know the dirt and then eventually we move on to other countries. Um, and if you are a camper in the world. You know the dirt whether you are a backpack. Camper an Rv camper a tent camper or a van camper. Whatever kind of camping you do we want to be the go to resource for you know for camping and it’s it’s not a once you start to really look at the math of it all you know.

26:47.84
Matt DeCoursey
Finish.

27:02.50
Sarah Smith
It’s thirty six bucks a year for our pro subscription. Currently, you know we get 1000000 people buying that. That’s that’s a pretty big you know reoccurring revenue each year. So um, those are the sorts of things investors can get behind if you can articulate the vision. Articulate the market size and I articulate why you are the one to do it.

27:24.36
Matt DeCoursey
In my book Million dollar bedroom I talked I had a section and talking about once you find success with something new. You’ve set up the signal flare that attracts competition no matter what has that happened with you.

27:43.21
Sarah Smith
Not really the the camping space is so disjointed. Yeah, so are there like little niche things here and there um but there’s nobody else who’s really trying to bring the whole thing together quite like we are. So you can find glamping niche sites and you can find backpacking niche sites but we want the thing that we’ve discovered. We just did a a camping report we do a camping report each year and um, people are trying new sorts of camping now at a. Unprecedented rate you know like myself for example for years I was a tent camper then we became a trailer camper where we had a camper we pulled behind us now we have an a a van so we’re van campers. Um, but. The type of camping people do has changed a lot over the years a lot more people are trying private campgrounds because you know the public campgrounds are so booked it is. 5 times harder this year to get a campground than it’s been in previous years reservations are so tight um so you know for us to be the resource for all of that in 1 spot is is really what we’re mean to be.

29:07.22
Matt DeCoursey
So as this grew this is obviously put a lot of I would assume that the demands on you personally um, grew you went from a wordpress site where you were I mean essentially a blogger right? And to. Um, ah now 10 year company with millions of users millions in revenue millions in funding and how have you dealt with those changes and solve the problems that come up for entrepreneurs as the business grows rapidly.

29:36.82
Sarah Smith
Well luckily I have an amazing team including my husband and co-founder. Um, so it’s been really I’ve been fortunate to have him along with this with me on this journey and this whole Time. Um. Just think having a Co-founder. It’s I think there’s mixed views on it out there. But for me having my co-founder being someone I was married to is been really, really great for us. Um, he has a totally different set of skillsets than I do. Um, and so being able to have each other because 10 years is a long time to do a startup and it can really wear on you and it’s it’s It’s a yeah, it’s ah it can be an exhausting thing as probably those people Listening. Can do attest to.

30:32.64
Matt DeCoursey
There there might be like a one nine ninety rule about being business partners with your spouse because um, like a lot of times that doesn’t work out at all. In fact, like I my my wife is was. There for the first six years of business I started you know, fourteen years ago and we were we managed to do that really? well, but most of the people that I ran into and talked to they’re kind of like they take you off to the side and they’re like so dude how do you work with your wife I don’t think I could do it with mine.

31:06.65
Sarah Smith
Are.

31:06.69
Matt DeCoursey
You know it was like but but the key the key and they really was it was like that kind of hush out I know you’ve had that conversation I mean any anyone that’s married to their their their coworker does but but I think the key thing for me was well first off you, you head on something really important.

31:14.65
Sarah Smith
Um, but what.

31:24.47
Matt DeCoursey
She was really really good at all the stuff that I wasn’t good at and it brought such ah, an annual component to the business that just helped us accelerate and thrive because if you’re not good at something. Then you likely don’t like doing it which oftentimes turns into you just not doing it which then turns into an even bigger problem. So I also wanted to talk about the cofounder thing because you know back in 2008 2009 when I’m starting my first stuff.

31:50.00
Sarah Smith
Um, more.

31:59.45
Matt DeCoursey
Um I was very opposed to the idea of having business partners or cofounders if I started something new now I don’t think I do it without 1 Um and then the key to that once again is finding finding that yen in that Yang um. Someone. That’s good at the stuff that you aren’t and if it just happens to be someone who’s good at all the stuff that you’re good at as well. Then you need to go find someone. That’s good at the things that you aren’t because you’ll leave a lot of stuff out. Um, what.

32:21.56
Sarah Smith
Um, right.

32:29.23
Matt DeCoursey
What was the since we’re talking about solving problems. What’s a problem that you had to solve that as a new entrepreneur just completely surprised you. You’re like wow I did not realize this was going to be as as difficult. Or any of that like what really kind of crept up on you and made you say wow looking back after 10 years

32:46.70
Sarah Smith
I mean I think this is very very common for Founders. We All have an idea that we are super passionate about and we want to solve this problem and we our hearts are really into this product that we’re building. But. As we know there’s so much more than that that goes into building a business like your ah Hr policies your accounting software your recruiting software. You know there’s so much more to to doing a startup than just your passion for the particular thing that you’re. You’re doing and of course I think we should all realize that’s coming but I I think it’s kind of a shock to the system when you’re pulled away from what it is you love to do to do these other things that you have to do and that was kind of a shock.

33:39.99
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, a bunch of people so there’s ah ah and I’ve been in this group a lot of people start their business essentially accidentally you know, like in some ways they stumble across something that they make a few bucks from so they do it again. They do it again. They do it again. They do it a whole lot. Um, but the more common one is people are just really good at something like you’re an amazing artist or you just do something that you’re already passionate about that. You have a hot level of skill at and then um and then when you turn that into a business you realize oh wow I actually have to run a business I have to learn. How to be an accountant I think and in this day and age it’s a lot easier to do a lot of stuff like for example, like 1 of the sponsors of the show in the past has been gusto dot com and they do payroll services and make it really easy.

34:25.70
Sarah Smith
Um, so I.

34:29.70
Matt DeCoursey
Ah, to to solve that problem you have like this this. There’s a golden age of information and access to a ton of other entrepreneurs that have solved these problems I Really want to recommend anybody. That’s that’s thinking about starting something. Um, to remember you don’t have to solve all the problems yourself, you don’t have to learn how to be an expert in 9000000 things maybe only like 2000000 things you have to be an expert at but but there’s a lot you know all these things like I mentioned like gusto and it’s like I mean you could have.

34:51.89
Sarah Smith
I.

34:58.69
Matt DeCoursey
2 employees and they make that whole process a payroll faster and give you access to things like you know insurance I don’t know there’s just like a myriad of different things. Um and and yet a myriad of other things I have other problems waiting to solve. We’ve actually had the.

35:08.15
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah.

35:16.42
Matt DeCoursey
The debate in the past like are all the good ideas already done. No, there are literally like so many problems still needing to solve be solved. So don’t let that get you down now I’m reading I’m reading some notes that you left for us and under the category of how do you stay focused on solving a problem.

35:28.96
Sarah Smith
Um, it um.

35:35.83
Matt DeCoursey
You had let had let mentioned don’t let doubt take over. Um, as as that has did you go through a period of that I talked to a lot of folks that.

35:50.51
Matt DeCoursey
Oh that they have the impostor syndrome I think we’ve all had it at some point like what are some? What are some doubts that you had that you that you overcame and and what do you have any tips for how do other people solve that problem.

36:01.98
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah, and you know I think we were titan with this before the show a little bit but when I started the dirt I was I think 42 43 year old woman. No tech. Yeah.

36:10.35
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, we were talking about how old we were. Yeah yeah.

36:17.72
Sarah Smith
But and I did an accelerator back like maybe 2 years into the dirt. Um in Colorado and it was an amazing experience. But I was the only female I was the only one not in my twenty s and I was the only one who had much different life experiences and um. I’m just like how do I fit into this you know I don’t look like these people I don’t talk like these people I don’t I’m very different from this and to this day would people meet me. They’re like you are the founder of a tech company but you know the the beauty of like my life experiences have.

36:51.28
Matt DeCoursey
You know.

36:57.42
Sarah Smith
That all comes into play and helps you I think be a better founder but there are more. There are many times where you’re like what especially in the beginning when it was just an idea and I would go to a different networking events and I’d be like yeah I’m going to start this website called the dirt and it’s you know it’s to. Crowdsource reviews of camp rounds and people like huh. Okay, well that sounds interesting good luck and um and then you know after I launch during like the wordpress days in the early days my friends would be like I thought you were going to make a rating and review site for campgrounds and there’s really nothing here.

37:23.11
Matt DeCoursey
Then.

37:36.37
Sarah Smith
This is just a directory of camp rounds I’m like yes I know it’s really hard to to build a community like this and it takes time. Um, so many times along that journey. You think why am I the one to do this or you might think that. But.

37:49.22
Matt DeCoursey
Need to.

37:53.49
Sarah Smith
I just have a firm belief if that if you really can visualize the the way you can solve this problem and you stick to it. There’s no blueprint for for what a founder is supposed to look like or act like and um. And I meet with a lot of fellow founders here in in Portland and who are just kind of starting a business and I really try to reiterate that that a lot of people just say they’re going to do something and they never actually do it so being the one to actually take that first step and do it and declare you’re doing it is more than. 90% of other people ever. Do.

38:28.89
Matt DeCoursey
Got to jump and build wings at some point people and I want to point out well we’re we’re classmates you and I on the inc 5000 here in 2022

38:37.67
Sarah Smith
Oh yes.

38:40.65
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah, and you were and you were featured in the twenty Twenty Two inc female founders 100 congratulations on that ma’am you know it’s ah I’ve had I’ve talked to a lot of people about award.

38:45.96
Sarah Smith
Thank you? Yeah, that was exciting.

38:53.79
Matt DeCoursey
Because I’m not really like a praise-driven person and I got that inc five thousand plaque and I went and I tried to put it in the bank and I was trying to shove it in that tube at the drive-through and it wouldn’t fit in so they’re like. Mr. Deouri come in the lobby and I’m walking in and they’re like oh this guy again I’m trying to shove it under the window. They’re like dude you cannot put this in the bank and I was like oh you’re right? So people like what’s the greatest thing about winning an award I’m like kind of nothing on some days. Thank you but also like.

39:17.23
Sarah Smith
Ah.

39:24.37
Matt DeCoursey
You got to find your own way to monetize it I accept those awards on behalf of the 299 people that work at my company that show up and and really make a difference like I’m just kind of Mickey Mouse out in front of the magical kingdom ask and everyone to come in so I accept that stuff on behalf of the folks that I work with.

39:36.64
Sarah Smith
Um, how.

39:43.44
Matt DeCoursey
Yeah I wanted to go back to the comment that she made about like the you talking about going to the accelerator and I’ve talked to a lot of people about oh man I ask some weird questions. But I I often ask the one of my favorite questions is what’s the difference between ah being a genius and being crazy. The best answer I got was who cares and it it wasn’t really like it sounds like kind of a smartass comment but it wasn’t really intended that way look upon more explanation all these the opinions that like you go in and you’re you’re the different. You know you don’t look or talk or act or feel like the other people in the group but who cares because you need to solve the problems that you need to solve at your business and there really isn’t this like template for what a founder or a tech founder. Whoever looks like anyone else’s opinion is just that. And it’s hard for people to get past that a lot you know and like the the thing is it’s like show up every day and try to do stuff that matters try to make a difference try to solve the problem that your clients or users have and I actually just today and this will be a little dated when this comes out that I just published a short video on.

40:37.43
Sarah Smith
Um, yeah.

40:55.76
Matt DeCoursey
On Linkedin about listening to your clients customers and user feedback because they’re telling you what you need to be better at and that’s back to that’ve I’ve as I approach my fiftieth lap around the sun I’m finally literally finally learning how to be a better listener. When it comes to that stuff. But at the same time also like not letting it affect me in a way that hey people are going to say good things they’re going to say bad things and really in the end like like you like you probably heard when you’re a kid sticks and stones right? and just it ah I don’t I just.

41:13.24
Sarah Smith
Um.

41:27.90
Sarah Smith
Um, right? ah.

41:32.00
Matt DeCoursey
Except for the fact, not everyone’s going to like you, agree with you, or that you might be a little bit different than everyone else. Oh well, they’re different from me, now I’m not different from them. Maybe look at it like that.

So here we are at the end of our episode. And I want to remind everyone if you need to hire software engineers testers and leaders, let Full Scale help. We have the people on the platform to help you build and manage a team of experts. When you visit fullscale.io, all you need to do is answer a few questions and let our platform match you up with a fully vetted, highly experienced team of software engineers testers and leaders. At Full Scale, we specialize in building long-term teams that work only for you. You can learn more at fullscale.io.

I love ending my conversations with founders with what I call the founders freestyle. It’s exactly that I’ve had people recite poems rap sing talk. Not cry. Maybe we could try that one one of these times but as I hand the microphone over to you on our way out, what would you like to use your freestyle on Miss Sarah?

42:26.50
Sarah Smith
A fault and.

42:36.22
Sarah Smith
Well I mean this might not be the most exciting freestyle you’ve ever had. But I just want to encourage people to to get out and go camping more often if it’s something they’re into it’s.. It’s really,. It’s such a great way to kind of refocus your your brain and have fun with your partner or your family. Um and you know and I I go back to the original reason that I started the dirt and that it’s because I was frustrated and I I. Didn’t want my camping experiences to be wasted on a terrible campground that I wish I would have just known before I went there was terrible. Um, you know so so use the dirt um check out the dirt pro we have bookings on the dirt so you can book Camp rounds. Um, and it’s It’s a great. It’s it’s something I believe in because it’s such a great way to like reframe yourself reframe your mind and refocus whatever it is that you’re all busy out there doing So um, a little like self-plug there at the end of the during the free trial.

43:43.97
Matt DeCoursey
Oh and that’s encouraged. You know what I’m going to go with for my freestyle is you know you mentioned that um, taking on a complete endeavor later in life and not being scared to do it. Um I think and this is originated from your neck of the woods. Ah, Nike says just do it. Um, you know so do that like they’re they, they’re onto something there like I talked to here I am all these years later having written 3 books done this podcast with thousand episodes out there I talk to people about this stuff all the time and I’ll tell you there are people I met six years ago that are still telling me about the same startup.

44:04.40
Sarah Smith
Um.

44:21.25
Matt DeCoursey
They’re probably never going to start because they don’t just do it. And it takes a level of boldness and fearlessness. And guess what? You’re going to fail a lot. Okay, so the feedback that I get from so many people is actually a thank you for being as transparent and open.

44:23.10
Sarah Smith
Yes.

44:37.30
Matt DeCoursey
I mean I’m going to. I got videos on Youtube where I’m saying fuck you failure. I am not going to let you beat me. And the key is like you got to do you. You got to put on the blinders. You got to solve problems and guess what? The problems aren’t going to stop coming. So don’t get frustrated with that.

44:53.92
Sarah Smith
…will open it.

44:56.33
Matt DeCoursey
Accept it and move forward and you’ll find that you’re probably going to win. Mike Tyson said you know everyone had a plan until they got punched in the face. And that’s what you’re going to run into right away as an entrepreneur. So get out there and solve some problems.

Sarah thank you so much for joining me. Congratulations on all your success and I’ll tell you right now, with me, you will have 1 new Dyrt pro user very soon. So thank you for building it. I’m into it. I’ll catch up with you down the road. Maybe at the campground down the road.

45:30.92
Sarah Smith
Sounds good. Thank you so much.