Ep. #906 - The Forgotten Co-Founder

00:00.00

Jannae Gammage

Welcome to the Startup Hustle’s Mental Health Monday series with your guest host, me, Jannae Gammage. I am a serial founder, mom, and wife. Probably knows me as a badass, I don’t know, CEO of Foresight. I, like most founders, struggle with my mental health. So when Startup Hustle asked me to host a guest series on the topic, I jumped at the opportunity. And I hope you are as pumped as me as I am to have a three-episode series dedicated to mental health specifically for founders. We get left out of the conversation a lot, and I really want to highlight some of the struggles that we go to and how to navigate that. So, today, we’ll be talking about the forgotten co-founder. But before I introduce you to today’s guest, many thanks to our friends at Full Scale for sponsoring today’s episode. It’s powered by FullScale.io. Hiring software developers is difficult. Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably. And has the platform to help you manage that team. So today’s guest is none other than Miss Alyssa Gammage—mental health professional, mom, and wife to me—if you didn’t catch that. Ah, how are you? Well, tell us a little bit about Alyssa.

01:20.78

Alyssa Gammage 

I

01:27.87

Jannae Gammage

Alyssa Gammage, um, and what do you feel like it means to be the forgotten co-founder?

01:34.64

Alyssa Gammage 

Well, hello, everyone. Um, so I am a licensed clinical professional counselor. I serve Kansas and Missouri, and I’ve been doing mental health therapy for about many hours now, and I’ve gotten to work in a bunch of different avenues. So I’m contracting with the military. Currently, I work with children and families. I’ve done some psychiatric work with the hospitals here locally in Kansas City, well Missouri um, and then I’ve also. Done some agency work with child abuse centers and then did some IOP groups. So I’ve really just been able to kind of float around and dip my toes in a little bit of everything as far as behavioral health. But yeah, I think about this journey. Jannae has also been a learning lesson to be the spouse of an entrepreneur and learning what that means as far as you know, just being that co-founder and then, um, that support system and also being able to apply my knowledge from. You know, being a therapist and seeing how mental health affects us just in the daily world but also being able to see how that affects entrepreneurs firsthand, really.

02:58.93

Jannae Gammage

Yeah, okay, cool. I’d like to say that I’m sure I made this very easy for you. Obviously, I mean cool. Um, but you know, for everyone else. Ah, who’s listening? You know, being an entrepreneur isn’t for everyone.

03:06.59

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah.

03:18.19

Jannae Gammage

Neither is sharing a bit with many. There’s a mystique that kind of surrounds the launch of a company or inventing a new product or service. People just love to fantasize about the freedom of running their own business. The financial payoff or the fame or whatever; it is maybe all three. Sometimes entrepreneurs even achieve I don’t want to say celebrity but kind of like a celebrity status whether in their local networks or maybe just nationally and nobody really thinks about the impact that could have on their support system. I like to call them a startup spouse. Um, because it’s so obscure. Nobody really gets to see them. Nobody gets to see the work that they’re doing behind the scenes and that’s why I call this episode the forgotten co-founder because when it comes down to it. You know. Every company that I’ve had as far as tech companies, I’ve had a co-founder and um, there’s a lot to be said for the work that happens once I get done with my workday and come home or if I’m already home. You know, um, what.

04:32.18

Alyssa Gammage 

Anna.

04:33.68

Jannae Gammage

Do you feel like it is the key to one prioritizing your mental health to be able to just exist as a person and individual but also play that role of quote-unquote startup spouse and support. Um. The entrepreneur in your household.

04:53.25

Alyssa Gammage 

Yeah, so to take care of myself and me as an individual because I am a therapist I feel like I have to do just a little bit more than the average self-care that I promote. Preach to my clients and to the community and just people around me because I am taking on quite a bit of people’s Stuff. So I definitely have my own self-care routine. Um, being by myself is one of my love languages and.

05:18.50

Jannae Gammage

Yeah, and.

05:29.14

Alyssa Gammage 

Um, it’s a very hard one to to really get into routine of especially with somebody else or other people family kids friends? Um, but that is something that is pretty important to me that I hold as a priority so I can just kind of decompress from. Everyone at once and then jump back into life the way that I need to um, but as far as being the support of an entrepreneur I was going to say that when you were describing. It is really a choice and a role of acceptance.

06:00.49

Jannae Gammage

Um, um.

06:02.50

Alyssa Gammage 

Um, I’m sure it’s similar to starting a business and being an entrepreneur yourself. We’re making a choice to say we’re going to be here and support you through the backstage stuff. Not really through what people see in the public eye but the backstage stuff in.

06:18.31

Jannae Gammage

Well.

06:22.39

Alyssa Gammage 

Um, my visualization when you were talking about that was when you watch movies and you see a concert about to start and the actual performers like running around with their head cut off and there’s all these people just attending to them and that’s us like you guys are what’s seen in the public.

06:32.93

Jannae Gammage

Oh.

06:40.46

Alyssa Gammage 

But really before you go and accept your award or talk about what your business means or give your pitch or anything like that. It’s mostly pure chaos before then it is.

06:51.40

Jannae Gammage

But wait wait wait wait. Are you speaking here? It’s ma’am.

06:58.38

Alyssa Gammage 

Um, experience firsthand experience to everybody and most people could probably relate to that like I don’t know if we’ve had a moment where it was like oh we’re going to walk through this like you see the white house walking through people and it’s quiet and everything’s organized like no, it’s it’s.

07:11.73

Jannae Gammage

I

07:17.90

Alyssa Gammage 

Normally not like that. Um, but with that experience we get the high of the before the present the show and then the after. So again I say it’s a choice to accept.

07:23.94

Jannae Gammage

Okay.

07:33.91

Alyssa Gammage 

Um, this role and this position and this type of support that you’re going to be giving and to understand what comes with that is important.

07:40.24

Jannae Gammage

Yeah, well would you say the hardest part of being married to an entrepreneur is because well before you answer that I wanted to point out I think our situation is a little different a lot of times. Startup spouses are frequently asked to support their partner in ways that they may not feel qualified for and may not even be qualified for because you know early on I can’t go out and hire all these people. So a lot of times entrepreneurs will look right to their spouses and all of a sudden. When you are talking to a founder and it’s like well who does this for you who does oh my wife does it for me and we don’t think twice about it and I think sometimes founders can really get um, caught up and this is what you should do? This is what support looks like to you. What I need you to do and you fill in these gaps whether you want to or not whether it affects your mental health or not and if you don’t know you’re affecting me and this is for us and this is for the family things like that. What was very important to me as an entrepreneur even before this is I did not want my spouse to play that role.

08:46.56

Alyssa Gammage 

My hair.

08:56.84

Jannae Gammage

I Did not want to mix because I didn’t want to put additional pressures or bring additional stressors, and for some people, it just works. Um, but I I know that I don’t want to actually work with my partner on that level. So. Sometimes spouses are involved operationally from the beginning with the new venture, and I’m sure with that vested interest it can and have having that active role. It can feel good. But then again, sometimes it probably would feel like I feel like it would feel like.

09:18.90

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah.

09:35.70

Jannae Gammage

Something that you just can’t get away from which is kind of annoying giving the whole launching this business wasn’t actually your idea at all. So I want to know of a time now that I’ve set the stage and people know like you do not work on anything related to my businesses at all. Um.

09:49.95

Alyssa Gammage 

Right.

09:52.70

Jannae Gammage

The one time I ever actually asked you for any professional help was when I was creating my benefits package for my newest company because I wanted to incorporate some mental health stuff but outside that I don’t correctly if I’m wrong I um get bounding board I think I don’t.

10:01.99

Alyssa Gammage 

Hello. No, that’s correct. Yeah yeah, and I think we also had that discussion again you mentioned choice like some startups don’t have any other choice.

10:12.80

Jannae Gammage

I don’t think I’ve ever liked it.

10:22.10

Jannae Gammage

Yeah, yeah.

10:24.31

Alyssa Gammage 

Besides to pull their spouse in and you know fortunately with us we do have that choice. Um, and we talked about that early on. I feel like that’s a boundary for us. For one I don’t want to work for you or with you in your startup and you don’t want me as an employee.

10:27.64

Jannae Gammage

Will.

10:38.90

Jannae Gammage

For me.

10:43.74

Alyssa Gammage 

So we were able to make that decision and we haven’t really crossed that line in that sense? yeah.

10:48.34

Jannae Gammage

Yeah, yeah, so that context is set now back to my question. I don’t remember what I asked you the hardest thing about being married to an entrepreneur.

10:58.84

Alyssa Gammage 

What’s the hardest thing? Um well the none thing I say with my gut answer is the none thing that I would say would be. About reminding myself of the mentality that you are on all the time even though you may be off sometimes you guys as entrepreneurs I mean you are the business you are in control of it. Ah, hundred percent so where our conflict would come in sometimes or even my own would be when it’s time to do family time or the small times that you are working and you know. We’ve had recent examples of this, and I’m like well why are you working? Why are you on your computer where we’re on vacation. Um, and this is my one time being in a relationship with an entrepreneur. So I also had to adjust to that transition as well and I think I’m still adjusting actually.

11:52.11

Jannae Gammage

Ah, will.

12:05.64

Alyssa Gammage 

Because I’m learning something new every day, you can’t turn your hours off essentially, and if there is something that has to be responded to, then you choose to give your attention to it either now as a priority or not so to have that reminder. You know it is important for me sometimes because I can control my own hours and or as a contractor I’m only required to service from None to None or that is even my on-call like it’s not a real on call. So I’m like well you should be done and we’re on vacation. So why? Why aren’t you? Um, but if you’re not and you don’t attend to these things then I’m also going to have something to say when we don’t have any money to get our bills paid. So right? like okay this is actually going towards like.

12:51.89

Jannae Gammage

Um, which one do I need to travel? I think I will speak to that early on. Um I was very much like hey if I’m It’s very my family is very important to me. So if I’m taking away from your time.

13:00.88

Alyssa Gammage 

What also comes back to the family.

13:18.23

Jannae Gammage

The only time I’m gonna take away from your time that’s supposed to be your time unplanned is if it’s got some dollar signs behind it. So if I jump on the phone. It’s because I’m closing a deal and that’s you know that’s closing it up or I’m bringing on a client. It’s some me, it’s. Always surrounding money and I know that’s all about perspective for entrepreneurs cause some entrepreneurs feel like every activity and every activity they do is a revenue generating activity, and that’s not always the case, but I only take time away from my family that is planned for my family. Um.

13:48.60

Alyssa Gammage 

And then.

13:56.58

Jannae Gammage

If it’s a revenue generating activity, meaning I am going to see funds in the bank within 24 to 48 hours as a result of that activity, right? Um, so my next question. Let’s get down and dirty. But before we do.

14:03.96

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah, her my.

14:13.67

Jannae Gammage

Since we’re talking about co-founders and team members I want to remind guys everybody that this is sponsored by Full Scale. Um, finding expert software developers doesn’t have to be difficult. You don’t have to take time away from your family if you just visit FullScale.io where you can build a software team quickly and affordably. You can use the Full Scale platform to find your technical needs and then see what available developers, testers, and leaders are ready to join your team. So visit FullScale.io to learn more if you need to hire expert talent. All right, back to the nitty-gritty. Um I wanted to. So this is you know the one episode and nobody really knows my story when it comes to mental health and suicide. But I have had two instances where I wanted to take my own life. And a lot of times entrepreneurs aren’t brought up in that conversation. There’s there’s lots of organizations and initiatives for veterans for men and women black men. Um, you know everything you can think of but you never really hear about founders. And then founders. Um, there’s a stigma to speak up because we always have to be put together. We have to be put together for our employees for our customers for our investors we have to present this well put together person who can handle whatever’s thrown at them. Um, and I myself have made it my personal mission. To um, amplify mental health and advocate for taking care of yourself first. That is the only way that you can take care of others and build this business that you’re passionate about so my last business I actually am excited about. Those were the times when I’m a veteran. I’ve played high level sports, but that was the time where I felt my lowest and where I felt like I didn’t want to be here anymore. I remember that we i. Felt like the company was going to close within the next thirty or 60 days. I can remember coming to you in the kitchen like I don’t know what I’m going to do like um and then full transparency me and my wife were not doing well just in our relationship. So I just really felt like everything that mattered to me. Was slipping away and I didn’t want to be here. What was it like for you to know that I you know had gotten to these low points? Um, if we just take the mental health professional out of it just as a spouse.

17:08.31

Jannae Gammage

And knowing there’s nothing you can do to help the business to get me out of it knowing you know our relationship is rocky. What did it feel like for you at that moment?

17:20.90

Alyssa Gammage 

I would say taking mental health out of it and just being a spouse. You know it’s scary and very uncertain and a little bit helpless like.

17:29.36

Jannae Gammage

Okay.

17:37.59

Alyssa Gammage 

There’s not much like you said there’s nothing I can do and in the initial thought there’s something that I can do right? We think like well there has to be something I can do for you or for anybody that is in a low space. But when you come to the realization that you can’t get somebody out of this really.

17:38.83

Jannae Gammage

Woman.

17:57.28

Alyssa Gammage 

Um, they have to get themselves out of it. It’s scary because all you can do is support and then hope that things turn around and like you said in our transparency when we’re in a space. That’s where. I can control some things and say okay well I can be better in this space just a little bit like you know there’s room to grow. Um and not add fuel to the fire but still at the end of the day I can’t make you better and. That’s a hard pill to swallow at all times whether you’re dealing with mental health or financial issues. You know we can. I can help you. I can give you money, or I can pay for something, but you know that’s a whole nother topic of financial freedom and literacy is.

18:33.51

Jannae Gammage

Oh.

18:49.73

Alyssa Gammage 

We can’t do anything else for anybody.

18:50.58

Jannae Gammage

Um, um, anything else. You have any questions. Is there anything that you want to say right now I’m just spitting off questions but is there I want this to be a conversation. Is there anything that you like. Like people need to hear me say this.

19:09.76

Alyssa Gammage 

Now I think we’re going in a good direction right now. Actually.

19:16.13

Jannae Gammage

How do you even feel like you do? How do you help me manage stress as an entrepreneur? Do you feel like you fill yourself. Um. Working to help me manage my stress.

19:36.43

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah I mean if you ask me right now. No, I don’t feel like I can help you manage stress. Um, you know, because we’re in a space we’re in a space where we are trying to figure out what.

19:43.43

Jannae Gammage

Ah.

19:52.68

Alyssa Gammage 

Is the best stress relief for myself individually for each of us and how that works in our marriage and then to add on how that works to help my business and you already have a business and I’m starting a business. Um.

20:02.75

Jannae Gammage

Oh man.

20:09.47

Alyssa Gammage 

We have a lot of big things coming up so I don’t know if there is any stress relief That’s going on right now to be completely honest. Yeah, but these are the hard things that I think couples go through like there are periods of time.

20:14.88

Jannae Gammage

Still.

20:27.39

Alyssa Gammage 

Where there will not be relief every day or one day or two days um I could only imagine as entrepreneurs that there are people listening that probably hadn’t had six months of relief. Um, maybe they were going through divorce while going through.

20:39.18

Jannae Gammage

Okay.

20:46.50

Alyssa Gammage 

Building a business or traumatic incidents. So to say that we don’t have relief I don’t feel bad about it. I think that that’s a recognition for an area to grow. Um, but yeah.

20:53.41

Jannae Gammage

Oh my.

21:02.75

Alyssa Gammage 

We were just kind of.

21:03.61

Jannae Gammage

Okay, I have to tell this story because we’re talking about the negative side right now for the one half of um, the recording and now we’re moving into the second half. So I’m gonna like to transition us by telling the story. And then we’ll start talking about the positive side of being married to me or any other spouse being married to asbu who or anyway so when I edited my company I came to Alyssa Gammage and I said okay, we’re good like what do you want to do like let’s do it. And she’s like let’s travel. I said great. Let’s travel, boom we’re gonna travel. We set up a whole plan where we started making plans right? Um, and then two months later what happened

21:54.28

Alyssa Gammage 

But you didn’t. We didn’t leave, nothing happened. That’s why I’m confused.

21:56.90

Jannae Gammage

I Start another cup.

22:05.90

Jannae Gammage

I started. Another guy came right back and said hey so about you know those plans like I need to start another company and I need your support once again I feel like ah.

22:08.51

Alyssa Gammage 

I

22:25.53

Jannae Gammage

What was that guy the bear sanders sitting in the chair I’m once again, asking for your support. Um.

22:29.80

Alyssa Gammage 

God, I remember that day I think I was like scrambling eggs at the time, and they were scrambling really well. I was so mad I was like sure we’ll support you like if that’s what you want to do baby grinding my feet like oh my god.

22:34.23

Jannae Gammage

Oh my god you work you stick to the kitchen like a workout. Yeah, but with that I think this moves us into the positive side because we’re still gonna Travel. We’re actually leaving. Next month here in a few weeks. Um, because entrepreneurship offers so much flexibility and in this case, it benefits everyone. I’m still going to start this company. I’m going to flip it like always and I’m going to meet other entrepreneurs because of my company.

22:59.88

Alyssa Gammage 

And he.

23:10.30

Jannae Gammage

My newer company is centered around helping founders raise money and shifting that entire fundraising industry. Ah, but now I have an opportunity to take it international and meet with people and still travel and you get to travel and you get to actually. Watch. Um, me, do it all over again and help me with stress management and we’re gonna do it with the beautiful scenery right? So Let’s talk about the positives of being married to an entrepreneur outside of flexibility.

23:45.28

Alyssa Gammage 

Um, well I mean the same con that I had with which was time management can go as a pro. Um, so I am. I will say that I’m very grateful for that. Travel is my passion, and I like adventure and anything that I’ve wanted to do family wise like we’ve been able to do, and even though you may have been on your laptop some of the vacations, we are still able to take our work with us.

24:10.14

Jannae Gammage

Oh when.

24:16.87

Jannae Gammage

What? what.

24:22.30

Alyssa Gammage 

So it does you know coincide with flexibility but um, just the freedom to be able to say we can go somewhere and we can take our family in kind of do family time and vacation at the same time that you know it’s priceless to me because.

24:34.70

Jannae Gammage

Oh.

24:41.43

Alyssa Gammage 

You know that’s what my passion is. That’s what I love to do? Yeah yeah, we make it work.

24:43.86

Jannae Gammage

Make it work baby. Um, let’s get into mental health I think it’s very important again highlighting the fact that entrepreneurs don’t really have a lot of resources. Specifically tailored to them I think people see entrepreneurship as more of a job instead of a personality and in my opinion being an entrepreneur is Instinctual. It is you. It is a part of you. It’s not something that you go to school for and learn and then go get a job. You know it? um. Ah, I feel like all the fattest facets of your personality are going to be an entrepreneur, and a lot of times when you have a partner, those things are some of the things that they love about you or why they want to be with you? Um, But. Doesn’t negate the fact that they have to become a support system and that they can actually negatively impact your mental health and positively impact your mental health if I did not have the support system that I had. I would not have felt comfortable even coming to you and saying hey I know we said we could do this right? But I’m gonna start another company like if your reactions um and you were never receptive to anything while I was running my. Previous business I wouldn’t have felt comfortable and that would have been. You know that would have impacted me mentally, you know what I mean so I think there’s something to be said about or there’s something we need to discuss when it comes to how as a spouse for listeners that are spouses. How important it is to find a way to coexist if you do not agree with your spouse being an entrepreneur.

26:40.88

Alyssa Gammage 

Yeah I think you need your own support. Um and to step outside of that spousal unit your marriage not step outside but you know like you need to reach out to who you talk to.

26:45.56

Jannae Gammage

Oh.

26:52.57

Jannae Gammage

Wrong.

27:00.33

Alyssa Gammage 

About what’s going on at home in a safe and healthy way, one of the biggest things that I lean on is my friends group and without them just like you said without you I wouldn’t be able to come say this thing but without them I wouldn’t be able to just. Bear some of the hardships that we went through um on a positive note like I can go to them and vent and then you know say what I have to say and then come back and be okay for whatever we have to do that’s next because ultimately I know you are starting another business. Is going to for one make you happy and for 2 like your intention is to help serve others but also return back to our family and what we have and what we want to create. So yeah I would say find your own community. And that could be a spouse’s community with entrepreneurs like other entrepreneur spouses. Um your own little community your therapist if you don’t have a therapist. You can get a therapist for however long it doesn’t have to be long term. But. Just to get that stuff off if your chest feels better like we don’t want to hold on to anything because we know that can grow to resentment and that doesn’t lead us anywhere. So yeah, think that’s important.

28:14.65

Jannae Gammage

Over.

28:25.36

Jannae Gammage

So Who do you think has the edge um single versus married entrepreneurs because we’re often categorized as intense visionaries who never sleep and work around the clock to be Successful. So. The assumption would be that you could only do that if you were single right? But then you look at the stats and actually 70% of entrepreneurs are married or were married when they lost their one Business. We won’t talk about the divorce rate.

28:48.00

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah.

28:57.36

Alyssa Gammage 

Anna.

29:02.19

Jannae Gammage

Who do you think is better off in business from a mental health standpoint? The single entrepreneur with an unlimited supply of just energy and midnight oil to burn can work 24 hours a day if they wanted to. Or the married entrepreneur who does have obvious time limitations but also has the support of a spouse or family.

29:25.19

Alyssa Gammage 

I think a couple different factors could go into that. But if I had to choose one, I would probably.

29:32.98

Jannae Gammage

Yeah, yeah, 3 parameters 3 parameters who has the edge single versus Mary entrepreneurs when it comes to the things that they need flexibility work-life balance and time and Energy. Who has the edge?

29:55.21

Alyssa Gammage 

I would say um I mean I think I have a biased opinion but married and because I married and I wasn’t like really with a single entrepreneur I Never you know saw or see I mean I do one of my best friends and you know.

30:02.00

Jannae Gammage

Why?

30:15.17

Alyssa Gammage 

My other wife has been an entrepreneur, but I think it really just goes down to time management. I mean just because you’re married doesn’t mean that you can’t be effective in the limited time that you have and that’s what I see and find with the people that you’re surrounded by. and you know the married couples that we meet and even yourself you know, even for me like my time is 5 a m most of the time or sometimes when I have to get stuff done but that doesn’t interfere with our family time you may work till nine thirty pm. um but that you know you didn’t skip dinner. So I think being married gives you a different sense of how I can use my time more effectively with limited time and it doesn’t really leave much range to go to those issues. Individuals and entrepreneurs probably have mental health which is burnout, allowing yourself to take on so much stress from just your business and entrepreneurship that you can’t focus on anything else. The lens is fogged because we do have to switch hats or you do have to switch hats.

31:26.58

Jannae Gammage

Yeah.

31:32.55

Alyssa Gammage 

To say like okay I have to transition a family or now I have to go you know do this and then also be a part of my social group if I were single and an entrepreneur I wouldn’t there would not really be a strong list of priority to to need to do that because I don’t have to but um.

31:48.40

Jannae Gammage

Yeah.

31:51.96

Alyssa Gammage 

I’m held accountable in other areas for being married and having a family. Ah.

32:01.47

Jannae Gammage

Accountability. Okay, I had a question in my mind that I’ve forgotten.

32:07.74

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah.

32:11.27

Jannae Gammage

What would you say I struggle with the most work life balance flexibility or what was the other one time and energy.

32:24.83

Alyssa Gammage 

Um, right time and energy I would say I think your work life balance is good because you are very involved. Um.

32:26.11

Jannae Gammage

Um, and we need that sound. I need that. Ah.

32:44.00

Alyssa Gammage 

And time and energy is like sometimes when you get home or when you’re done. You don’t want to do anything like you could be depleted or like. The energy that you want to use for other things is not there sometimes so there may be some initiation of Shortcuts or I don’t want to do X Y and T Um, So yeah I would say time and energy.

33:16.46

Jannae Gammage

Wow. Okay, well when it comes to time management if I had hired Full Scale for a market base early on I would have been a lot better. Do you need to hire software engineers, testers or leaders. You can let Full Scale help. They have the people and the platform to help you build and manage a team of experts when you visit FullScale.io. All you need to do is answer a few questions then let the platform match you with a fully vetted, highly experienced team of software engineers, testers, and leaders. Full Scale specializes in building long-term teams that work only for you. Learn more when you visit FullScale.io. And we’re back, what do you feel like? So I’m gonna shoot off some questions now. You can give me one word or you can give me a whole monologue. Whatever.

34:21.19

Alyssa Gammage 

Just keep going. What.

34:25.87

Jannae Gammage

Um, 1 word to describe you.

34:30.55

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah, wild.

34:34.31

Jannae Gammage

Um, 1 word to describe me.

34:40.80

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah. Like loving came to the first to my eye for you right? Like something caring or just like open-hearted.

34:49.54

Jannae Gammage

Um, ah, you’re so sweet for if any of my competitors are listening to this, I am not loving I’m a monster I’m a beast.

35:05.69

Alyssa Gammage 

She is kind of rude on the phone sometimes I’m like why are you talking like that.

35:06.74

Jannae Gammage

I’m a day with you? What wait wait hold on hold on hold on what not me nice, Very nice tech right.

35:18.58

Alyssa Gammage 

Loving like I said.

35:24.88

Jannae Gammage

If you had to write a book about being the spouse of the entrepreneur. What would the title be? That’s the title I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going on.

35:32.97

Alyssa Gammage 

I don’t know honestly I think I would have to think but right what are we doing now like or it would be like yes wife or yes B or sure like.

35:49.41

Jannae Gammage

Sure, let’s do it? Okay, um, what’s 1 ritual that you see me do for a win already know we can.

35:52.28

Alyssa Gammage 

Sure, right? You have that idea. Sure, let’s just try it.

36:05.44

Jannae Gammage

Get our daughter on the phone right now and she’ll order less. Yes, yes, that’s one that’s 1 ritual that they know in the house if they hear me scream. Let’s go. We just made some money.

36:06.46

Alyssa Gammage 

What scream let’s go. Yeah.

36:23.31

Jannae Gammage

Ralin, our daughter comes in because she knows we made money which means she gets stuff. You know she’s happy about it. You, on the other hand, you’re just like a good job. A great job puts me in a good sport. Um, great job, tired of hearing this.

36:29.54

Alyssa Gammage 

Right? It’s the same response right.

36:41.73

Jannae Gammage

I’m sure if he didn’t hear for a while like um, what’s going on are we Okay, we okay, um, do you consider entrepreneurs in general to be driven or obsessed.

36:44.98

Alyssa Gammage 

Are you going to work right?

36:57.82

Alyssa Gammage 

Um, well I haven’t seen anyone obsessed but I could only imagine that some people are that way. So I’d say both, but I would like to describe entrepreneurs as driven.

37:12.35

Jannae Gammage

Okay, what is the difference between being a genius and being crazy? Is it crazy to start a company back to back after just it’s like gambling right? was that crazy.

37:20.83

Alyssa Gammage 

E.

37:27.25

Alyssa Gammage 

Well, you love to gamble. So um.

37:30.50

Jannae Gammage

Hey can’t be telling Momma cur tonight.

37:35.90

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah, is it good to know you? ah well don’t bring your wife on then pro tip for all entrepreneurs. This is what you get.

37:46.10

Jannae Gammage

But they will reveal your weaknesses. Oh.

37:51.66

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah, um, not the truth. Ah.

37:54.75

Jannae Gammage

And those are mutually both true at the same time. Alright.

38:00.11

Alyssa Gammage 

I think it’s good I think it’s good Genius and crazy I think Genius Um I think crazy, you’re just kind of like repetitively or maybe in different ways just going towards maybe like no vision.

38:16.66

Jannae Gammage

O my.

38:18.74

Alyssa Gammage 

And with a genius like there is an expected outcome. You’re intending to receive something or solve something or create something for a purpose for meaning and Crazy. You may just be doing all this busy work and thinking that you’re coming up on something but you don’t really have an actual plan. Um, tell? Yeah, just like kind of running around.

38:42.40

Jannae Gammage

What are a few things that you’ve learned that have transformed you whether that means as a leader, a professional in mental health or even as a person being married to an entrepreneur and being in that. Space around other entrepreneurs now.

39:01.85

Alyssa Gammage 

I’m glad you asked this question because I was going to backtrack to what the positives are of being a spouse of an entrepreneur I only said or touched on flexibility. But this can kind of cover. Everything.

39:11.36

Jannae Gammage

Almost.

39:21.21

Alyssa Gammage 

Motivation I’ll say is number one or one of the first ones I had. No, I mean, yeah, I had motivation. But I was motivated to start my business even more because of, you know, our relationship or being with you. And being able to see firsthand all the ups and the downs of what you go through and what that looks like. The wins and the losses. And just how inspiring you are to move forward with what you believe in, so that motivates me.

39:40.87

Jannae Gammage

Well.

39:53.17

Jannae Gammage

Almost.

39:57.59

Alyssa Gammage 

And motivated me to do that myself. Um, in the capacity that I can do it. So you know, being able to see you with other entrepreneurs, I get to see you guys as like creativity flourish as well and parts of you that. Maybe other people wouldn’t be able to see from the outside in but I can see how that all unfolds and blooms being the spouse of an entrepreneur you know, being your spouse the hard work that you do in the blood sweat and tears that go into what the actual product or the service that you’re giving. Um, that’s I mean that’s a beautiful thing to see, not everybody can see stuff from start to finish.

40:45.63

Jannae Gammage

It’s a beautiful answer. Good job day, all right? Ah, last and final questions: we’re at our time. Um, and for those of you who don’t know, it should be everyone listening because it’s just me, my family week, and our group chat. Me, Alyssa Gammage, our daughter. Um, when we speak. Ah, we call ourselves the winner circle. We tell each other that we’re winners. Um, regardless of what’s going on. You’re a winner. This is the family of winners. Be bad or good but whatever. So what does a win or winning mean to you, ma’am?

41:27.78

Alyssa Gammage 

I think a win is all of the small things that we do throughout the day, and even if we essentially “lost something,” didn’t have a good day, or didn’t get an investment we wanted to do. You’re still moving forward, and that’s what.

41:35.28

Jannae Gammage

Luma.

41:46.51

Alyssa Gammage 

I tell my clients all the time that we only fail when we stop or quit something. So as long as we’re continuing to move forward and we’re pushing through in a good and healthy way, that’s a win. And we have to own it.

41:50.45

Jannae Gammage

Above.

42:03.34

Jannae Gammage

Love it. Well, that is our time. This has been fun. I don’t usually get to talk to you in a business heading. Okay, right? Yes, um, I’m really excited about this series. I thank you for being my guest number one.

42:12.41

Alyssa Gammage 

The therapist I know is right.

42:22.47

Jannae Gammage

Guess thinking I’m cool enough to come on here and chat with me about mental health and entrepreneurship for those tuning in. Be sure to tune back in next Monday as we continue with real talk with Abraham Cyf of Freedom Project.

42:40.81

Alyssa Gammage 

Ah.

42:41.50

Jannae Gammage

I believe it’s next, um, this concludes this episode. How do you feel?

42:47.10

Alyssa Gammage 

I feel good. I’m excited We got to do this and just, you know, create this together. Yeah yeah, I love this. I love this for you. I love this for the entrepreneur community.

42:52.81

Jannae Gammage

And just a few days before your birthday. This will be a good birthday present for your first podcast.

43:04.92

Alyssa Gammage 

I love it for us.

43:06.20

Jannae Gammage

You heard it, guys. I think we should end it there. All right, guys. See you, guys, next week.