How can investors track ownership of NFT assets?

Tracking Ownership of NFT Assets

In this episode of Startup Hustle, join Matt Watson and Mario Nawfal, Founder & CEO of NFT Technologies for Part 6 of this NFT series as they discuss how to track ownership of NFT Assets, and touch on so many popular NFT topics in general.

Covered In This Episode

NFT is all the hype nowadays, but what does it mean to own one, and how can you measure its value and track its ownership? Today’s guest, Mario Nawfal, NFT extraordinaire from NFT Tech, is here to educate listeners on the exciting concept of owning NFTs. In a nutshell, these are the topics that the two discussed in this episode:

  • Definition of NFTs and the concept of owning NFT assets
  • What does NFT Tech do and the new assets they invest in
  • Ways people can track their NFT assets
  • Different perspective on NFT ownership
  • Transferring NFT assets from one place to another
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Highlights

  • Hype around NFTs (1:31)
  • What is NFT? (1:59)
  • Concept of Ownership (3:50)
  • Birth of Non-Fungible Tokens in 2017 (5:21)
  • Problems with owning NFTs (7:16)
  • All about NFT Tech – Investments and Goals (9:44)
  • NFT Tech’s investments and holdings (11:50)
  • NFT Tech’s goal of going public (13:06)
  • How can people track their NFT assets (14:48)
  • Reasons why people may lose money in NFT (17:01)
  • A different way of looking at NFTs (19:09)
  • Factors that determine the value of NFTs (24:27)
  • Other NFT spaces (28:00)
  • Importing assets from one metaverse to another (35:04)
  • How does Mario feel about Facebook’s Meta and metaverse? (40:15)
  • Return Rates for Early Investors (49:11)
  • Final Recap (51:30)

Key Quotes

Interruptability will be a big thing in the next few years where all these different blockchains will become interruptible; there will be few winners, of course, and each will have its use case.

– Mario Nawfal

As we start to accept the concept of digital ownership, owning things like pictures and videos, tweets, and quotes in the digital world will become closer and closer to owning the same things in the physical world.

– Mario Nawfal

With anything that will be considered a collectible or art, it’s only worth what people will perceive it to be worth and the demand for buying it. So, if nobody would buy the original Mona Lisa, it won’t be worth anything, either.

– Matt Watson

Interested in learning more about NFTs? Listen to Startup’s Hustle’s entire NFT Series.

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Rough Transcript

Following is an auto-generated text transcript of this episode.

00:00.69

Matt Watson

Welcome back for another episode of the Startup Hustle. Today we’re going to talk about NFTs, which are all the rage these days. Very excited to talk to our guest today, Mario. And before we do that, I want to take a quick second and thank you to Full Scale, who is our sponsor today. As most of you probably already know, Full Scale can help you build a software development team quickly and affordably. So Mario, um, before we started this. It sounds like you’re a world traveler, which is super interesting to me.

00:38.61

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, now you got a good man. It’s awful; I travel a bit too much.

00:40.64

Matt Watson

Um, done.

00:50.41

Matt Watson

So, you know, really excited talked about Nfts you know there’s a lot of ah hype, and you know just talk about Nfts like. I’m looking through my news yesterday, and there’s something about how you could buy like board apes or Crypto Punks or something on eBay for $50 each. I just wonder, for like, you know how many people actually try and buy those on eBay for $50 and don’t realize they’re, you know, for sure getting scammed and. But to kind of start this conversation, I’d love to hear your thought on, like, what is an NFT? What is your viewpoint on that just as a starting point?

01:26.60

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, um, I actually opened up eBay because I want to check later. I’ve heard of this I never checked it. That’s insane. Um, but look at the definition of NFTs; even people within the space within crypto don’t understand what it is. And it’s going to surprise the audience. It will surprise you that nfts mean don’t mean what everyone thinks it does because Nftts are not collectibles in art. They, not no collectible pickro exactly so, so NFTs is ah the best way to describe it.

01:55.39

Matt Watson

They’re a unique token right.

02:01.27

Mario Nawfal

It is a technological evolution that allows you to own things on the web now when you understand this. For entrepreneurs listening to this, when you know the definition I’m going to give you now, it will open because I know how you guys think. I’ve been an entrepreneur all my life, and the way I think is, you know, Ah, you know what an opportunity when it hits you. You know your eyes just widen up like holy shit like I can do this, I can do that. You’re gonna get 1 of those moments now. So NFTs allow you to own something in it on the web. What do I mean by this well, you own the podcast mic; you guys can’t see us, but you know I own the phone next to me, I own the AirPods, the laptop, the headphones. Um. They’re mine. The clothes, the suitcases and as you said I’m a world traveler. So now I’m in Morocco. I’ll be in Dubai in a couple of days, and wherever I go, these things I own my identity, my stuff, they’re mine whether I have a car, whether I have a house. It’s my stuff, and that’s just how the earth works on earth for hundreds. For tens of thousands of years, humans have always owned their own assets, even animals own their own assets. You know a lion wants this meat to be his He’s got this territory, so the concept of ownership is normal in our life and entrepreneurs. You know, all the businesses we build, a lot of them, are based on the concept of owning something. Whether you own the ecom product, you’re selling, whether you’re offering a service for a business that allows people to own Xyz now on the web since the internet has existed. You actually couldn’t own anything digitally but.

03:30.51

Matt Watson

We definitely don’t own our data and everybody takes our data and and you know profits from it. That’s for sure.

03:35.89

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, you don’t own your data. You know Youtube for videos on Youtube says you own it. You don’t actually own it; Instagram Photos, Instagram says you own it money the bank says you own that money of the bank. You know I was in Lebanon two days ago seeing 1 of our clients for two days and in lebanon and in cyprus I happened and it happens now in Ukraine and and having a issue in Russia banks are just freezing. People’s assets in Lebanon meant. It’s insane. They just the the bank completely frozen. You know people had millions in the bank. My client lost a fuck ton of money. It was just sitting in the bank and the bank just froze it because the economy took a dump.

03:56.82

Matt Watson

Right.

04:10.74

Mario Nawfal

Um, for various reasons they were very leveraged so it’s not you don’t own those you know and when it’s sitting numbers on the web now this will kind of digress. But when you have numbers on the web on the internet. The the the you know anyone can copy your image. Anyone can copy your video. Anyone can copy numbers on a screen. And pretend they have money but there’s middle parties that say you own something Instagram says you own photos Youtube videos a bank says you own those numbers online so there’s always been middle. Ah, third party saying who owns what now because it wasn’t technologically possible. To have this the oh you know to have something in your pocket like you have in the physical world that’s changed in 2017 the concept of Non-Fungible Tokens came out nft is non-fungible tokens which essentially allows someone to own something without a third party saying they own it and that opens an incredible world to us and. Well beyond ah collectibles at art because they’re they’re nothing. You know I don’t collect anything I don’t like art I don’t know about you man. But I’m sure if you look at everything you own collectibles and art are very small percentage of it and I’m sure the audience would would relate to this if you’re entrepreneurs, you probably have no. You know nothing collect was an notmost of you. So why is collectibles are not taking up. You know all the hype in Nfts well that’s your short term when you start to understand the NFTs could allow you to own your own gaming assets on a game on a decentralized game. Allows you to own financial instruments without a financial institution in the middle without a stock market without any of that then you be like holy shit like the the things that can that can be done now on the web is and that’s the concept of web 3 are a completely new shift in the way we can function on the internet. And that’s what’s happening right now. Beyond just collectibles and up.

06:00.29

Matt Watson

Well,you talk about collectibles and art right? and and to me it seems like those are sort of and they’re most anonymous to me as as a real-world example of they’re like. They’re a digital version of baseball cards or something right like or beanie babies or or whatever kind of collectible things. But to me I think the best representation is something like baseball cards and by the way I have a giant box of baseball cards in my basement from when I was a little kid I have no idea what’s in there and maybe there’s like a billion dollars of the baseball cards in there I don’t know. But ah, too bet. It’s not like a billion dollars or the crypto punks I guess but it’s just it’s crazy to me that people buy Jpegs and you talk about the ownership of them and nfts. But when you really look under the covers and fofnft’s right at at really at the end of the day they’re just a pointer to an image file somewhere right? like. The the token itself just says you own this yeah url which a lot of times ah with an fts that url is actually hosted on a Google cloud or Amazon or whatever. Um, it’s like. You think you own a crypto punk or whatever but you really just own a yeah url to some file somewhere that somebody potentially could change the file right now there there’s different ways. All that stuff is done but it’s it’s just most people have no idea how it really works under the covers either.

07:18.27

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so the the issue you mentioned now is is something that is pretty funny thinking about it. You’ll find a lot of similar issues in you know the concept of digital ownership including let’s say art and collectibles because um. You know it’s very very early. You know early days of the internet you’re like you know who’s gonna sit there turning on a computer for 10 minutes to send an email. We can just write a letter and post them and mail fax something a lot quicker and those was in the early days in the internet so you’ll find a lot of and shortfalls a lot of issues in nfts. And they’re all being you know they all you know ones that we we know in the space. For example, an image hosted on on a central line on Aws on a centralized entity the whole concept of Nfts is digital ownership is you don’t need third parties. But then the image is sitting on a third party server. Yeah, so.

08:02.31

Matt Watson

Right? yeah.

08:06.93

Mario Nawfal

There’s already solutions to that. There’s ipfs I invested in five years ago where it’s hosted on a decentralized network where technically no one owns it. So it’s no longer pointing to an image on a third party ah server that you know the server could go down or the owner could remove the image and not pay the fees was that that obviously just complete stupidity. Um.

08:21.17

Matt Watson

Right.

08:26.51

Mario Nawfal

But look, I’m deep inNFT space I’m the Ceo of a company called NFT Tech um, you know I should be like the the expert in the space and I own personally I own just a crypto bunk because I like it but I don’t own anything else like I don’t own any apes I don’t any punks anymore I’ve sold everything I don’t own any art digital art. Just because I think it’s just not as exciting but I own a lot of Nfts but none of them are are or collectibles I probably should buy a few and I’ll buy a few in the hype settles. But I’m I’m looking at the you know nfts open up the concept of the metaverse. Um, and you know they’re both very intertwined once you understand and what NFTs are.

09:02.00

Matt Watson

So, tell us more about your company Nft Tech and it it looks like you guys. Did you start out as kind of like a investment fund or or hedge fund or whatever that basically took a bunch of investors money and bought a bunch of.

09:03.27

Mario Nawfal

But no matter Verse you need to have own stuff.

09:18.84

Matt Watson

NFTs and metaverse property and stuff like that is is that is that kind of the origin of it.

09:21.24

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so we didn’t start out as such. We started from the beginning as a company wanting to go public and we got the you know we reserved to tick your Nft to go public on the stock market so that was goal from the beginning and then and Neo Neo Neo Canada so neo and core.

09:33.41

Matt Watson

Which stock market by the way will that be like hot Canada. Okay.

09:40.59

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so then we go to will take us longer to get to the us so take at least a year and long process and then the goal of nf tech is is buying up a lot of these nf assets again I’m not putting any money in art and collectibles to be clear and but but um, but not even that man.

09:53.48

Matt Watson

So you’re talking more about the marketplaces themselves instead of the so your time about.

09:59.74

Mario Nawfal

Not even that like is is this source fascinating like you can so the metaverse, for example, the whole digital world. We live in I’m not gonna go deep into it for that world to exist a decentralized digital world. You have to own stuff whether you own a spaceship in a game and you use that spaceship to play the game to earn money because you’re gonna earn money in those decentralized worlds. And to build the whole community. You know for gamers. It might relate to them for people that are not in the gaming space and I’m not from the gaming space. This might sound a bit weird in the beginning but like you know assets within games is something we look at you can look at ah you know digitizing real estate turning it into an Nft you can turn identity into Nft you can turn financial instruments. NFTs so I look at other applications of NFTs and they they interest me tremendously. But I also looks at the picks and shovels approach. So um, and you know buying up marketplaces something we look at not Nft in art and collectible marketplaces because I just think it’s too crowded but I’m looking at social tokens where be when you can tokenize. Someone’s reputation. But I’m really I’m really iped up about I’m hyped up about the Metaverse and and what you can own within Ver Meta verse that digital world which are NFTs you know I think nfts make up like ah like the atomic unit of the metaverse.

10:59.72

Matt Watson

Okay.

11:06.16

Matt Watson

So so what are so what are some of the bigger investments and and holdings then of of your of your company like do you guys own a lot of land and decentral land or sandbox or things like that or.

11:18.38

Mario Nawfal

Cool I’m glad you know the space? Well um, yeah, so so decentralized and sandbox. Um, we involved in those but we haven’t purchased assets or land there yet. But we we will be soon? um.

11:29.00

Matt Watson

Okay.

11:34.24

Mario Nawfal

We’ve been focusing more on on finding the next decentral land or sandbox and we’re invested in projects. There’s one called blocktopia and that we’re invested in and there’s one invested called citis heroes are invested in genome pets. There’s a few others you know I’m throwing names out there for people to Google and and like learn about them.

11:39.43

Matt Watson

Who.

11:50.60

Mario Nawfal

But they they’re projects that we they’re are there early you know blockop is already grown tremendously. It’s not early anymore and um and we’re buying assets in those because we think they’re undervalued and then eventually we’ll be buying a lot of um so you know land and and decentral land and sandbox and then. We buy a lot. We focus a lot on the gaming metaverses rather than the the metaverses that are more similar to the real life. We think gaming is going to be the first step in the adoption cycle of the matterverse. You know gamers have been living in a digital world or you know since they started gaming so like the metaverse makes sense to them. Um, so that’s where we’re focusing.

12:24.41

Matt Watson

So is your guys’s end goal by by creating this fund and and going public. You know at some point in time the future you know with the Nft ticker and stuff making it easier for somebody like me to be like you know I just want to you know invest in. The nft space and all this but I don’t really understand it and that gives me exposure to that you know type of asset class is is that ultimately the goal.

12:46.22

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so you know absolutely right without me explaining it. You got it pretty quickly because you know going into the space and you know you made the joke about people buying cryptopunks on Ebay which is insane but it’s like extreme extreme case scenario but people don’t understand what Nfts are and and the potential of them. So like all leave it with us. You know I’ve been encrypted for a long time. We have a team of people that are very involved in this space. Um, and you know all these traditional investors and retail investors will just buy the stock. That’s our goal. We’ll buy the stock on the market and then that stock.

13:15.40

Matt Watson

Right? It’s kind like been able to buy bitcoin ah but buying micro strategy or whatever right like micro strategy the company owns like billions of dollars in bitcoin. So it’s like if you buy stock and micro strategy. You’re really buying bitcoin indirectly.

13:22.27

Mario Nawfal

Um, yeah, exactly.

13:30.87

Mario Nawfal

Exactly exactly and then then what happens is like the valuation of but like you could it cheaper to buy bitcoin than to buy the equivalent than microrate stock and because you know a lot and that was interesting because a lot of people wanted exposure to the space and that was in the early bitcoin days now. It’s really easy to buy bitcoin everyone can but in the early days or some.

13:45.21

Matt Watson

Right.

13:49.20

Mario Nawfal

More difficult and people were a bit more scared and then um, funds and stuff didn’t know how to put it on their balance sheets so buying Micro strategy stock just made more sense for them and then the valuation just went up like an index fund of bitcoin and you know if you had an index fund. It will be valued more.

13:59.76

Matt Watson

Right.

14:05.50

Mario Nawfal

Um, so we’re doing the same thing but for the Nfd in the metaverse space.

14:06.00

Matt Watson

So so how do people track their assets like if they buy a bunch of different Nfts and you can buy them across multiple blockchains by the way. So a lot of our listeners may not be very familiar with this but you know you go back like eighteen months ago two years ago mostly there was. You know, of course you have bitcoin but then ethereum was the the big blockchain that was used for smart contracts but over the last 12 to 18 months now there’s like 20 more of them and probably like a hundred more of them that I don’t know the names of but I could probably name 15 or 20 of them. Um, and it’s like how how do you buy all these Nfts across all these different things. And track them know what they’re worth like I feel like I’m buying you know baseball cards and they’d be in a bunch of random drawers all over my house like how would you track all this stuff.

14:51.15

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so it’s another one of those issues because it’s so early. It’s all scattered I think interoperability will be a big thing in the next few years where all these different blockchains will become interoperable. There’ll be a few winners of course and each blockchain will have its own use case now we’re talking to a matterdiverses project that’s deciding between I think it was flow. Polygon and hidea. You know they’re discussing those 3 we kind of decided on either hidea or polygon um, but then you know we look at polygon as the metaverse ah blockchain so that each blockchain will have its own use case now’s got to your question about having these Nft on these different blockchains enough. You know, just look at the blockchains that that um. Um, you know, ah gaining the most traction right now is obviously is ethereum. Um, but if you get other nfts on blockchains that are gaining traction that are very early. It’s a bigger gamble because the blockchain could fail like many failed since 2017 you know Eos is a great example hasn’t failed but it’s not doing too. Well um, and then but if it.

15:31.44

Matt Watson

Right.

15:47.25

Mario Nawfal

Succeeds you know you came in really early and you benefited but there’s also marketplaces you know there’s one called nf trade that we’re invested in. It’s an nft marketplace I think it was mainly focused on algaandnd and nfts I think um and he’s algoran and um, but they allow interoperability between different blockchains. You can list and trade nfds from different chains. Really cool. So for the for the for the audience listing now if you go on like let’ a platform for nftt nf trade and if you go on that platform and you buying Nft on ethereum you’ll be able to trade it on an ft on algorithm. But for you, you wouldn’t know just trade two nfts because like that one over the other. Um. But it still very early and and that’s another reason why the retail market doesn’t know where to start I get people every day you know I told you I traveled to dance every freaking time I go to dance people are coming to me they know because I’m in nfs hey should I buy these monkey and nfs I’m like fuck what monkey nfs man you’ve don’t bond don’t buy any nfts because it it just.

16:29.30

Matt Watson

Yeah.

16:41.84

Mario Nawfal

Shows that lack lack of knowledge means they’re the ones that end up losing money and the people within in the space make the money.

16:44.68

Matt Watson

You know it it the same story like it blows me away I see random family members and I ask them about you know cryptocurrency at bitcoin or whatever and they’ll tell me like oh yeah I bought some crypto I downloaded robinhood and I bought a few thousand dollars with a dochecoin I’m like are you fucking kidding me. Like all the stuff you possibly could have done like it’s the same story of like I bought Nfts and and I bought the squiggly lines have I saw an Nft collection a couple days ago. There was nothing but squiggly lines that were different colors I’m like who buys this shit like I just like blows my mind I don’t understand.

17:18.78

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so I think the concept of Nftds now all the ah there’s 2 things to them and smart money’s going after quote unquote collectibles which are think like you know in a few decades when Nfftd’s become a normal part of life. You’ll find those early Nft being. Ah you know they were 1 of the early ones you know. In anything really the first gun ever used in the world would probably be in a museum somewhere the first car ever is in a museum so they think it’s it exactly exactly like blue chips like kleptori cryptounks board apes fidenzas all these early early nfts. Um.

17:41.24

Matt Watson

Sure the crypto punks will forever be a collector’s item.

17:55.65

Mario Nawfal

Many of them. They consider bluechis already Really expensive. Um, now they might correct and stuff but long term I’m pretty bullish on them. But then you get all these other art. It’s purely degenerate gamblers playing money playing with their money. That’s it either degenerate gamblers or pump and dumpers. That’s it.

18:10.83

Matt Watson

And the other ones I think that are weird is you get these people that take like a tweet or a meme or something like that and then they sell the the rights to the meme or whatever I guess like it just some of this just blows me away because at the end of the day they’re just Jpegs right? like.

18:21.26

Mario Nawfal

Um, yeah.

18:28.36

Matt Watson

My avatar on Twitter is a board ape I didn’t buy it I don’t know I didn’t spend $200000 for it. But I just download the Jpeg file and upload it as my picture on Twitter right.

18:37.86

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, but that’s this yeah I would I would I would correct you there because um, not correct you I would agree and but I would kind of take it I have I’ll have you look at it in a different way. You know there’s a Mona Lisa sitting in in in Louvre.

18:52.45

Matt Watson

M.

18:54.58

Mario Nawfal

But I can have a Mona Lisa in my house right now Dolltaisy I’m saying at ah at a friend’s house. He’s got all these beautiful paintings their originals but anyone I could just take a photo of it and put it in another apartment but it’s worthless because it’s not the original. It’s the same thing with board ape. So if someone goes to your profile. They’ll see your board a but they can verify in Twitter putucet.

19:12.36

Matt Watson

Sure Yeah, they make it a hex a hexagon.

19:14.80

Mario Nawfal

A a check to verify? Yeah no, but yeah, exactly so. So if you have ah an unverriified board a and then someone checks and finds out hey this is actually just a copybase from a signaling perspective. It’s not a good look now not yet very early now could actually look pretty dope like a man you know like like could be like an anti movement like you know. Fuck this trend and fuck and sorry for curcy on if I can but screw these this train and the board apes but that if someone has a real one on their profile. It’s a good signal It’s like driving a rolls Royce or wearing a rolex. So um, there is you know the concept of just copy pasting. Is what you know the hurdle that many people need to get over it because you can copy paste the Mona Lisa so doesn’t mean that all these are are legitimate every tweet that gets turned into an Nft is legitimate. Um, it just means that ah there will be some. You know if you manage to get the first letter written by you know Lincoln. The first letter he wrote oh his his whatever speech when he was when he became president if you had the physical copy I’ll be pretty dope. Now you can have the same thing digitally so you have the you know the first tweet by the founder of Twitter you can actually own that tweet because he sold the rights to it now.

20:24.23

Matt Watson

Ah.

20:27.37

Mario Nawfal

It’s very early like what do these rights mean how does it work etc. What must says I own it. He turned into 10 Nft but like later what it could mean is that this is this. He turned it into an Nft once and that nf is owned by someone so these are actually the rights because he said they’re the rights so as ah as you start to accept the concept of digital ownership. The concept of owning things like pictures and videos and tweets and quotes and stuff in the digital world will become closer and closer to owning the same thing in the physical world but it will take 1.

20:54.83

Matt Watson

No I and I I think you’re right? And by the way I need to remind everybody that today’s episode is brought to you by fullskele io hoping you build software team quickly and affordably which could be software for tracking nfds. Whatever you want to build. We can hope you do it. We’ve got a huge team of of developers ready to go. So you you bring up a really good point because you bring you bring the example of like the Mona Lisa or you know the declaration of independence or any of those things right? like anybody could take a picture of the Mona Lisa like I could take a picture of the moni lis of the Mona Lisa or Starry Knight or name any famous art I could just take picture of it right? and I could print out the. Picture on canvas probably online for like $100 and hang it on my wall but it’s not the real thing right? It’s it’s not the original and you know I guess with anything that would be considered a collectible or art. It’s it’s only worth what. People perceive it to be worth and and the demand for for buying it right? like if nobody wanted to buy the original Mona Lisa it wouldn’t be worth anything either and but but you’re right, there’s there’s a certain and there’s certain it’s different of owning the original Mona Lisa than it would be saying like well I own a copy of it. You know I scanned it and I just printed it. That nobody would nobody would see value in it now at the same time like I don’t see value in my mom’s beanie baby collection either like when she dies I will just throw them in a dumpster so everybody perceives perceives this different like everybody’s interested in different things and everybody would would argue that things are more valuable than others right? I’m sure in her will she thinks. Beanie babies are worth more than the house. But it’s just interesting but you bring up a really good point of like you know, even physical art people could make a copy of it. But that doesn’t mean that the copy’s worth anything. Um, but it to me it. It still largely feels like so like speculation.

22:43.56

Mario Nawfal

Very speculative very very because um so I’ve got 2 things to say I’m not an odd collector. Um I used to collect stamps and stuff in coins when I was much younger when I was a kid but I’m not a collector and I find ought to be such a waste of of energy and and time and. And I just find it to be really silly and I don’t like art at all. Um, so just to be clear. We’re on the same page here and then you know what is something worth is what the market values it up so are all these stupid pictures on on an Nft pictures worth what they say? Oh no, well as I said a lot of them are degenerates the speculators and people are not too educated.

23:09.65

Matt Watson

Yeah, absolutely.

23:21.82

Mario Nawfal

Buying them up because they think any Monkey is the same as a board a um so and these other people are not not too educated about the space and then speculators want to try to flip it because there’s so much liquidity and degenerate gamblers just have nothing to do and you know some of them make good money. They’re good at flipping it and they get early access. Um but will some what will these be what will. What will these be worth you know I have to I’m gonna deploy Capital I’m gonna buy some of these collectibles and art when the hype dies down but how do I look at the Space. So I look at the two things I look for to to determine What gives it value I had a few speeches about this first one I look at is the community. You know something like board Apes have a really powerful community A lot of celebrities bought board apes. And you know they’re forming these groups these get Togethers. So I see board as as a ticket to this community that could evolveve into something much bigger that could be game. Yeah so Board Apps is really is much easier to see the value because of the community aspect. Um, then you look at others that don’t have that community. What I look for with something that hasn’t built that Community is the story behind it.

24:04.91

Matt Watson

Which is really cool.

24:19.50

Mario Nawfal

Like cryptounks being one of the first ever nftt um avat advertisings collectibles. Um, you know, ah you see one of the first you know the first people for example, people has a really good story of having done hundreds and hundreds of not thousands of pieces of art and he’s he’s one of the early artists that brought nfts to the mainstream. That’s a story that will stand the test of time. So I see people people’s work to be a you know having a good solid story behind it? Um, so as I look at more. Um you know more pieces of of nftr I look at the story behind them in the community to determine if they have value. Um and that’s where I know that. Definitely over 99% are worthless or close to worthless.

24:58.67

Matt Watson

Well and and to me a lot of it just seems like speculation. There’s got to be thousands of Nft projects that launch every day and you see places like so for those who are listening. You know one of the largest marketplaces is open CO it’s openseaopenc I o is one of the largest marketplaces to to buy Nfts and and there are others but it it seems and what I was going to say is they would tell you that like 80 or 90% of all the stuff that gets listed on. There is copies and fraud and stuff like that because like I could I could go down to my basement right? and I could scan all those. Baseball cards and I could make nfts out of every one of them be like it’s Ken Griffy Juniors Ricky card now is an Nft or whatever right? like and I’m sure Topps you know baseball cards would come back around later and be like okay that no like I read something about magic the gathering cards somebody had made Nfts of magic the gathering cards like and you get people that copy. Board apes and cryptopunks that just like reverse them or just download the images and reupload them and then try and sell them like you get countless. You know, kind of ah scam and fraud that’s out there.

26:02.54

Mario Nawfal

Is like it. Yeah, it’s very easy to create an nftt like for anyone listening It’s so damn easy and do one I should probably do one myself like just for fun, not sell it but just to see the process and how easy it is. She’s got to get nice digital up and just post on opee. The process is extremely simple. And say he’s like creating a website. All of us can create a website you can create a hundred website doesn’t mean that website will have value. You know in the dot Com Era Everyone will create a website. You know put a business plan together and raise money and try to go public and you get some money with something you know will.

26:35.45

Matt Watson

That’s where Nfts are right now. Ah.

26:37.20

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, exactly. So if is the same thing anyone just created and if’s even worse because there’s no you know people are just buying it directly on open sea. You don’t need to business plan or anything you see a fake story and that’s it or ah or story behind it. So we’ll see a lot of these Nft projects either. They’re pure scams or rug pools and and they’ll immediately go to you know, go 0 very quickly. Or there people actually trying to build something but as soon as the market corrects and like holy crap. There’s not much money now. There’s no one’s interested. Maybe I should just stop and take my money instead of using that money to build a business like I promised I’m just gonna walk away and I made some money selling them. So um, even like you know Goodheartedd entrepreneurs would be like hey it’s not worth it and then you know put the ethics out of the window. So yeah, it’s gonna be a ah shit show soon in my opinion, go ahead.

27:17.26

Matt Watson

So I was going to say so we’ve talked a lot about the arts and c collecttible side of it I’m I’m kind of curious you know for for your guys this company and and your you know portfolio of assets. You know what are some of the other big. Nft spaces that are out there and I think there’s there’s some other really interesting ones. We talked about the metaverse and and stuff too but like are you familiar with um with what Snoop dog just did with with his album release and um death row records is doing and all that stuff.

27:47.14

Mario Nawfal

Ah I heard something recently. He’s done a few things. Can you tell me which one.

27:51.59

Matt Watson

Um, and I and I’m not I don’t remember the exact details of it but he he released his album and I think he was selling nfts for like $5000 a piece or something and it was like 10000 pieces of his album or something like that and he raised like. Thought it was like $40000000 the week after the super bowl and and so I think part of that is too like gala music is that part of is that one of the ah the marketplaces are familiar with that. It’s just interesting. What my point is it’s interesting. What musicians are trying to do um you hear a lot about musicians are making more money from.

28:17.97

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, yeah.

28:27.50

Matt Watson

Their nfts then they would make you know from their from their album deals and I was just curious. You know, do you do you know much about the music part of this.

28:34.58

Mario Nawfal

No, so I was talking to. There’s there’s a big name in the space called anamoka brands and they’re looking very heavily into the music space. So we’re gonna start and we’re talking about k-pop and you know getting kpop into the matterverse I think’s selling nftt versions of ah of of your album I think it’s interesting because you can break up. Whenever you buy a song on ah on a decentralized platform I don’t know how gala works and I’ve talked to some in the early days so that was a concept I looked at in the early days now I’m too deep into the into the meverse and then you can when you buy a song and Nft version of the song instead of buying it on Spotify and Spotify makes the money you kind of get a piece of the. Royalty from everyone else buying a song so you get a piece of the song. Um, so let’s say someone launches a song and you get nftt representing royalty in that song if you think the song will will do oh. Not only can you listen to the song because you like it but you get a piece of the revenue it generates more people buy it and listen to it on platforms I don’t know if that’s how gala works. Um. But what interests me in what ah artists are doing is they creating you know I’ll I’ll study dig into the metaverse and I’ll link it to music because you start to have those meta verses around you know around kop you have one around hip hop around particular celebrities and you know first what the meta verse is for anyone listening. It’s ah it’s ah the way I describe. It’s like a digital representation of the physical world. We live in today and then you take out physics so without predetermined physics. So. The first part is digital representation of the physical world. What’s pretty easy to understand you look at how we live life here and can live a similar life in the in the digital world. Um, and then you take out physics because there’s no physics. You know that you can you can teleport. You can fly. You know you can do anything one. It’s all within the code of the metaverse. So and if you you haven’t watched ready play I want just watch the first maybe five ten minutes of it just the intro and it gives you an idea of how the world could look very good id.

30:09.23

Matt Watson

Um, yeah.

30:23.87

Mario Nawfal

And it all be decentralized thanks to Nft so it will be literally like earth where you can own stuff. You can operate can move from 1 metaverse to another and and where music is interesting is that not only can you have concerts in the meverse and that’s already happening but you can also move. You can also have like different meta verses. Anyone can create a meta verse like anyone can create an nfd like anyone can create a website. Gives value to a meta versus adoption people using it so you can have a metaverse amount kpop you go in there. You can meet your celebrities. You can interact with others in that community because metaverses are just communities of people same way, you know so you know neighborhoods and a metaverse. Yeah, exactly like.

30:54.88

Matt Watson

Instead of going to a Discord chat or something like that. You’re going to ah a metaverse. Yeah.

31:01.48

Mario Nawfal

You know thisord is itself is a matterver the same way Facebook changed to matter discord tiktok youtube zoom I find all these to become eventually grow into the medivers we imagine? Yeah, the communities in the digital world and and that’s what the metaver is. It’s a digital representation of the physical world where socializing is signaling and building communities.

31:07.70

Matt Watson

Their communities.

31:20.67

Mario Nawfal

And experiences is what makes up our world. A big part of our world in the physical world. So the same is going to happen virtually and in the music space. You can have. Ah yeah, as I said like a k-pop me verse where you can have concerts meet your your favorite celebrities meet others that share those some same values except trading collectibles of those kpup artists as nftds. So um, yeah, that that’s like gives you an idea of what how I think the head of the space will head in the next five years but we’re we’re focused a lot on gaming now as I said earlier I think in the intro. Um, because I think this is like how the space is starting out like the the first adopt is in the matter verse.

31:51.30

Matt Watson

So what? So what’s a good example of using Nftts in games and and let me and let me add to that you know why? Why is the blockchain needed for that and so for example. You know you can play fortnite and you can buy skins and you can buy you know dances and all this stuff and you don’t need the blockchain for that right? The blockchain is absolutely not required so what is it about the blockchain that provides you know some additional power there for for these types of games.

32:24.49

Mario Nawfal

Perfect question. But um, so if if fortnight you know goes bankrupt in five years time. All the skins that you’ve purchased all the value that you bring build your your reputation and the the relationships everything you’ve built on fortnite. Is gone with the platform or if you break their terms of service. They can disable your account you lose everything but I’m sure if I watch something on this phone that I’m not meant to watch Samsung Iss not going to come and take my phone the same way a game could come in and take your assets because I own it. But in fortnite you don’t own your assets.

32:57.64

Matt Watson

Here.

33:02.18

Mario Nawfal

So means if fortnite goes to zero the zero the asset has go to zero two because fortnight is no longer there to say that you own them and to have utility anywhere. That’s number 1 but number 2 which is a lot more interesting is interoperability where the assets on a decentralized game on the blockchain. Could become interoperable with other decentralized games on the blockchain that means you can go from 1 game to another with the same assets the same way I’m gonna go from from Morocco to Dubai with this phone. It’s my asset. So let’s say you have a spaceship in a game called citus heroes and then you go to another game called star atlas they’re both games on the blockchain.

33:29.71

Matt Watson

M.

33:37.99

Mario Nawfal

That spaceship can go to star atlas and you could use it there. Maybe the utility will change in some ways to fit the game and what the game is about and how the game works and the game talking to the game mechanics but the spaceship could go from 1 place to another so can your team you can move your players from one to another along with their guns and let’s say they mine some ore and and build some some asset.

33:55.93

Matt Watson

Now Can you do that today.

33:57.83

Mario Nawfal

Some of them for all them. No no, it’s too early. No way like the games haven’t even launched Citis aling just launch the Beta version or about to.

34:01.96

Matt Watson

Well and I mean to me usually those assets are very tied to the game right? like so axy infinity is one of the largest games and if you own ah slp which is the smooth love potions or whatever or you own characters in axy infinity like they’re not good in any other game right? It’s all. To that game. So. It’s the same thing if axi infinity showed down you lost you would lose whatever you have and but the metaverse part of this is interesting like can you transfer assets from 1 metaverse to another. So for example, you have these people that’ll spend like crazy amounts of money to buy shoes or purses or things like that in the metaverse to decorate your avatar right. But do those assets transfer from 1 metaverse to another.

34:41.67

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so I’ll go to the first point about if actually goes to 0 the assets don’t necessarily go to 0 at least almost not there yet. It’s getting closer and closer where even if axi or the founders go to 0 first, you actually selfcon’ go to 0 lististic community decides not to use it anymore. Like there’s no company that can go bankrupt because of mismanagement. Whatever. But then you can actually have those assets you own them those nfts those axes you own them so anyone could build a new blockchain a new game and say hey I built a new game. This is how it works come bring your axes there and you have 10 people do that 20 people do that. And now your axes are interoperable among all those games and each games will have its own rules on what you could do with those accident because you own them there in your Walle exactly exactly certain

35:18.78

Matt Watson

So as long as they as long as they as long as they write code around that Nft contract ah has some capability then they can look for that Nft contract or whatever and import those contracts into their game.

35:31.40

Mario Nawfal

Exactly like this? yeah and and there’s a there’s there’s a good experiment being done called luot and luot is essentially a bunch of basic basic and you know it’s essentially words and each one represents an item that’s it. And then the community that they did as an experiment each one’s an Nft and the community’s building a whole game around it. Everyone’s building different games and similar to roleblox anyone can build the game on robblox and different ones will get adoption. So with a you can have different members of the community build up their own games now I guess it’s way too early to see this in an unpractical level.

35:55.48

Matt Watson

Um, yeah.

36:06.96

Mario Nawfal

But this is where it’s working towards and where the space is heading to and that’s why there’s so much money flowing into those you know these are smart investors. That’s what they expect to happen and now you ask the other question about you know with other Meta versus other games. Can you do that again. Not yet because it’s very complex each each game has own game economy.

36:23.17

Matt Watson

Yeah.

36:25.76

Mario Nawfal

And to to add another asset they they’re still trying to figure out their own economy and that’s really complex to add another asset from 1 game into this game I think it’s at least 5 at least 5 years away from seeing at least you know some basic aspect to that and then you know, even yeah.

36:39.12

Matt Watson

Well and and and all this makes sense to me I mean I’m I’m forty years old but twenty five years ago maybe a little more than twenty five years ago I used to play text based games online over modem right? over twenty five years ago like like dungeons and dragons kinds of game except you know I’m typing on the keyboard you know, walk forward walk left walk right? Attack monster pick up the gold. But hey if you had the best sword you could kill monsters a lot faster right? and I actually bought I think for like fifty bucks back then a sword from somebody else in the real world and they sent it to me right. And I get that um the blockchain and or some of these other games themselves are making it easier now for players to buy stuff from each other but that concept has existed for a long time It’s just dramatically easier today and like I said I did that all like twenty five years ago

37:21.41

Mario Nawfal

Are.

37:27.76

Mario Nawfal

Oil. Yeah, so you can buy assets So That’s why I didn’t mention the content a lot of people like to mention it like now on the blockchain anyone can buy your assets you can trade them. You can say that’s not too hard to build on a centralized platform always look at Okay, what are the benefits that blockchain brings and.

37:39.55

Matt Watson

Um, yeah.

37:45.61

Matt Watson

Exactly.

37:48.45

Mario Nawfal

Which ones can actually be done today then those ones are not that interesting because they can be done today interoperability where different games work together and that can be done Today. You can have different games make a deal and work together but are still dependent on those central entities making a deal with their financial incentives not aligned with the community whereas a decentralized game it’s a community that builds it. It’s a community that makes the know if you go out and build different games for axy the the community that goes to adopt that game. They get a piece of it. So with axy the profits and that’s why people play the game to make money I distribute it among the players. So it’s ah it’s a kind of a. A paradigm shift in how it’s all structured from centralized entities doing jvs and agreements on how things should work and still controlling those assets having some sort of control to a community where anyone could build anything Anyone could build a game that works with axy that’s interoperable with axy that’s where it’s heading but not anyone could build the game that’s interoperable with. B lizards game. Whatever ah you know, let’s say counter strike or whatever because counter strike needs to agree to allow the assets to be interopable. But if you’ve got actually. For example, we got an an action in action infinity. It’s in Era Rc twenty oh no yeahs something. It’s so on the on the it’s it’s on the polygon. No, it’s on the on their own blockchain. And by it’s on the yeah er rc twenty protocol and any game could use that protocol and allow those assets to be used there and he talked about having accessories on them on on on an avatar.

39:09.65

Matt Watson

Yeah, yeah.

39:14.29

Mario Nawfal

That’s probably the easiest one to start having interoperable can move from decentralized to sandbox to blockedop yet to others wearing your Gucci bag to show that you’re rich.

39:20.35

Matt Watson

What? Ah. Okay so one of the final things I definitely want to ask about. But as we you know start to wind down this episode today and and once again, this episode is brought to you by Fullskill Io hope you can build software teams quickly and affordably is how do you feel about meta you know Facebook. And where they’re going with this metaverse and all and all this stuff and first of all I think it’s absolutely hilarious that in their version of the metaverse people don’t even have legs. There are no legs because the software developers aren’t sure how to make the legs work like no other video game in the last

39:48.31

Mario Nawfal

Not I see that um.

39:58.55

Matt Watson

30 years hasn’t had game like like everybody else like make freaking legs in a video game like I understand yeah there are no legs in horizons but what.

40:04.34

Mario Nawfal

Yeah I think yeah cause I think they wanted to interrupt like when you wear the oculus you can use your hands to operate you can use this but I don’t know why they can’t put something on the legs. Um, maybe they’re worried because you know to be able I’m just gonna guess you maybe because you know Oculus I punched the wall once when I first got an oculus on day one.

40:09.34

Matt Watson

Right. Is crazy.

40:21.54

Matt Watson

Um.

40:22.20

Mario Nawfal

Because I moved around too much and I had the oculist and I was playing the boxing game and I punched the wall. So maybe if you move your legs too much. It could cause safety risk I could be completely off maybe technological issue but in terms of changing the name to meta freaking. Genius I think that’s really smart and it makes a lot of sense. And now a lot of people in crypto hate the the fact that they did that and they’re owning the word. Um you know from and from a business perspective I think it’s a very smart move. You know Facebook is a dying platform they got ah you know and an immense immense community a lot of users. So they’re perfectly positioned to build an incredible metaverse and I’m pretty confident they will. They’ve got the money to spend. They’ve got the people there and now does it worry me about them controlling the metaverse. No because anyone that understands how the metaverse works you know Amazon and Facebook and and and Youtube and ticktock control most of the web. Most people go on the web and they use. Go on your phone you use five six apps at most. But there’s the hundreds of thousands of apps for not millions. Um, so it’s the same thing you know this human nature. It’s the same thing’s goingnna happen on the metaverse. The metaverse itself I would like to call it the multiverse as a technology is decentralized the same way. Anyone can create a website anyone can create an app anyone can create a metaverse including Facebook.

41:16.44

Matt Watson

Oh yeah.

41:32.81

Mario Nawfal

Um, so them creating a metaverse um is not a bad thing. People will go use it and people don’t like it. They’ll go use another one. Um now people that are really against centralization. They don’t like the fact that Facebook will have some meta will have so much power in that new virtual world. But what did you expect? you know humans are in the physical world. Humans will be in the virtual world. So the imperfections of humanity will exist exist in both paradigms.

41:55.33

Matt Watson

But I always feel like the percentage of people that actually care about decentralization has got to be like less than 1% my like my kids play roblox and minecraft I mean they would play all these games these blockchain they wouldn’t give 2 shits about what.

42:02.10

Mario Nawfal

Very little very little like they care about.

42:12.92

Matt Watson

You know blockchain it used if it was the central and they don’t care about they. They just want to play the game. They don’t care but software engineers like and and some of us that are in the community like we get overly worked up about it.

42:21.80

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, like I don’t get too worked up about it but mainly do li liber liberarians um I’m pro pronouncing right? Libertarians say say in France for me. Yeah, they they they take it very seriously. Um, you know for ideological reasons. Um I think it’s.

42:31.75

Matt Watson

Libertarians. Sure.

42:39.76

Mario Nawfal

What will really allow for mass adoption is not the the fact that it’s decentralized but the values it brings because it’s decentralized. Okay now I can own my assets in the virtual world the same way I can own them here like I own my toy here and I can go from country to country with my favorite Toy. Can buy my favorite gun in the game and move different games using that done so that concept of interoperability will be great. The matterverse will not all be decentralized I like to call it the multiverse which is like many matter verses existing.

43:05.71

Matt Watson

I Never heard anybody refer to use the word multiverse in relation to the metaverses. But I think I think that’s ah, that’s a great term to use I think you’re absolutely right? And what the thing that I don’t understand is why people spend so much money on land in these games is because it. And Reality. There’s like unlimited land.

43:24.34

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, no there isn’ an unlimited land. The first part of what you said is like I don’t know what? yeah so so what I mean by this is on on these says unlimited land the same way. There’s unlimited websites but it doesn’t mean Facebook is not valuable because there’s anyone could copy Facebook.

43:30.12

Matt Watson

I’m a software developer I Know there’s unlimited land I can tell port anywhere.

43:37.63

Matt Watson

Yeah.

43:43.82

Mario Nawfal

So and Land is worthless unless someone’s using that matter Verse where the land exists so there is unlimited land but it doesn’t give it all value so on decentral land which is one of the top Meta verses that will have most likely a lot of adoption. Um, that Land is limited and the only way to create more land is is if.

43:46.66

Matt Watson

Yeah.

44:00.99

Mario Nawfal

Owners of existing land vote for more land to be created so in that sense. It’s not unlimited within decentral land Now if anyone the same way. There’s you know it’s like saying ethereum is worthless because anyone could copy ethereum No because none of them have the adoption. So the adoption is what counts? um and and so I wanted to touch on that. But I think like land.

44:11.32

Matt Watson

Sure.

44:20.65

Mario Nawfal

The use case of land will change that people are buying land because they’re meant to own land. No like you don’t need to sleep go to the toilet and eat in the meadverse you could just sign out on the platform So people need to start looking at it as it. Yeah like if you’re online there should there be a use case to it Beyond building a house to meet people because doesn’t make sense.

44:31.30

Matt Watson

Ah, yeah, why do we own land there.

44:40.37

Mario Nawfal

Um, but yeah, so so I think the way we look at the metaverse will change over time and and the reason I like to use the world multiverse because I think there’ll be centralized meta verses because there’s a lot of benefits to centralized meta versuss and a lot of us. Don’t mind if they centralized there’ll be decentralized meta verses and there’ll be a hybrid of both where. It will be centralized in some aspects. It will be run by a company like Facebook Meta but it will also have decentralized aspects. We can own your assets on they and move them from you. Can you can move your assets you can move your axi from actually infinity and their metavers because they’re expanding to a metavers can move your axi from there to metas. Ah Metas Metavis

45:15.12

Matt Watson

Well, it’s it’s definitely an interesting world that we’re going to I mean I’m one of those people that you know when I want to ah chill on the couch tonight and watch Netflix I just want to do that I don’t want have to like sign into the metaverse and then go they go like there. There’s a point of insanity here where where some people think this could go.

45:16.78

Mario Nawfal

And it can follow you around.

45:34.54

Matt Watson

But I definitely feel like um virtual reality headsets like the oculus ah is super powerful like my kids have one and it is definitely totally different being able to use a ah ah virtual reality headset like that and the feeling of it is so dramatically different than you know, just. Playing a normal video game on a computer or Xbox or whatever like vr definitely changes the game where things feel so dramatically different and realistic and you know my ah meta Facebook was you know smart for for buying them and and. What they’ve done with that. You know like I think there was more oculus headsets sold last year than Xboxes like to just create insane. But they’re super cool and they’re only like $300 I think us dollars. Um, but we’re still on the cutting edge of of that. But you know a lot of these metaverses don’t actually use vr right.

46:12.90

Mario Nawfal

Um, that’s insane.

46:27.87

Matt Watson

Um, there’s some that do. But I think the ones that do I think in the in the future will have very unique experiences like if I could use a Vr headset and go into the metaverse and like get customer service. You know or feel like I’m at a store like I’m shopping like for shoes or I’m shopping for something and just the more realistic part of it is so dramatically different than just like watching a video about going to that same store. It’s just totally different.

46:51.28

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so the immersive nature of the metaver will something interesting. It’s gonna be like I mean we’re already in the Meverse. You know when when I’m talking to you on Zoom I’m tuned out what’s happening around me I think you’re the same when I when I’ve got 3 pairs of airpods always with me always wherever I go. And because I’m always tuned in I’m listening to I’m talking to my team on Whatsapp on Youtube on Zoom and I’m in that digital world already. So if you think about it we are in the medavas but it’s a very archaic version of it web 2 I like to call it the web two metavers or it’s like you know you know 2 wo-way communication. But there’s not much more to it. And now we’re moving to web three metavers we can own things and go be be more immersive, etc. But Oculus is insane like I recommend anyone wanting to enter the space to buy one because it will change your I’ve given it to a few people I’ve bought a few to investors that want to understand the space especially real traditional investors and I remember 1 guy really wealthy guy. Ah, bought him in Oculus after meeting him. he’s an indian guy and he’s like um hi can you be who owns who owns Oculus I’m like hey man like he wanted to buy it and I came man I don’t think you can buy oculus you know Facebook owns it now he wants to be a distributor and he was like very very very traditional of an investor.

48:00.85

Matt Watson

Yeah, yeah, it’s pretty cool stuff. Really cool stuff. Well thank you so much for having you on the show today and we’re doing a whole series of episodes about nftts I think we’ll have a new episode every week about nfts covering different topics and glad to have you part of this and.

48:01.30

Mario Nawfal

But when they use the oculus it changes on like holy shit now I get it.

48:20.80

Matt Watson

Um, really love what you’re doing and wish you guys all the best luck as you continue to create this Nft fund and maybe one of these days I will ah I’ll be an investor in it as as one last question I’m kind of curious like what kind of return rates. You know, do you. Foresee like investors getting that invest in a fund like yours.

48:38.16

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so obviously I can’t I can’t ah do projections like this before my board kind of crucifis me. But yeah, so so crypto the way I put it is crypto has the potential to get people go to go bankrupt if you don’t understand the space and it’s so easy to put your money. You know be you know the.

48:43.72

Matt Watson

As sure. Sure.

48:52.12

Matt Watson

Oh yeah.

48:56.91

Mario Nawfal

Late person to put in a money before everyone dumps or to come in late after all the hype is gone. Um, but at the same time if you’re early, you’ve seen it like if you look at returns. There’s insane returns and I’ll talk on a personal level There’s a project called blocktopia and the Nft tech invested and but um, ah. Gives giving you numbers to give you an idea of like the things you see in crypto block topia it’s you can believe this man from launch two months later to to three months later they were at over three hundred and something x so that means you put in? Yeah, so let me do some math if you put in a hundred k.

49:29.45

Matt Watson

That’s crazy.

49:33.20

Matt Watson

And you and you guys were able to invest in the very beginning of that. Wow.

49:34.62

Mario Nawfal

Times three hundred six seven yeah we invested privately so we were sitting at three out and 30 x a hundred k is sitting out to 3 1 to $33000000 and I think it hit blockctopia from memory. It hit like a 5 300 x for id investors foreseed in private investors from memory. You hit like a. 4 to 500 x that means like a hundred k investment is like $50000000 um, it’s insane numbers now. It’s corrected I think now’s sitting at about a hundred x the market corrected which is still insane. Um, so that’s crypto for you. It’s not It’s not easy to make money.

49:58.27

Matt Watson

That’s crazy.

50:03.40

Matt Watson

Still insane.

50:09.86

Mario Nawfal

But being early in the space and especially having that early access and I’ve been in the space long enough to see this. Um you know gives you a really unfair advantage and that’s saw when someone comes to me, you know, ah, just nothing to do with Nft Deck just went onim personalson ever like Mario should I go buy n fts I’m like no unless you’re gonna go really deep in the space and I had that last night. Unless you’re gonna go really deep in the space and understand the space and spend hours and hours and study it for weeks and months and build relationships so you get in early otherwise you’re gonna be screwed likely gonna be screwed so that’s my lot people.

50:37.35

Matt Watson

Um, otherwise otherwise you end up like me that’s figured out every way to lose money in crypto.

50:41.74

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, but it’s insane. It’s so easy to lose money People don’t don’t see that.

50:47.60

Matt Watson

Yep, well thank you so much for being on the show today. Um, any final words you want to won’t tell our audience where we close out here.

50:51.62

Mario Nawfal

Now guys look be careful. Be careful obviously on a business level check out http://nftte.com so nfttech dot com I think you subscribe to a mailing list where we’ll be sharing a lot of this insight. So if you want to hear more of me what I have to say I’ll be saying it on the on you know on the various channels that we have at Nft tech but on a personal level. Just be really really careful the space you know we might excite you with a lot of these things and and where the space is heading but you know things could drop by 90%. You know the the I’ll leave you with this the human brain overestimates the short term impact of innovation but underestimates the long term potential.

51:28.14

Matt Watson

Absolutely all right? Well thanks everybody I hope this was very informational and look forward to all our other episodes we’re doing on nfts thank you Mario for coming by today. Thank you.

51:30.22

Mario Nawfal

So think about this for a while and I think you’ll understand what I’m trying to say.

51:40.66

Mario Nawfal

Cool man, Thanks a lot.

Matt Watson

Welcome back for another episode of the startup hustle today we’re going to talk about Nfts which are all the rage these days. Very excited to talk to our guest today Mario and before we before we do that I want to take a quick second and say thank you to full scale who is our sponsor today. Um, as you as you most of you probably already know fullscale can help you build a software development team quickly and affordably so Mario um, before we started this. It sounds like you’re a a world traveler and ah, which is is super interesting to me so Mario Nof Nof nafa

00:38.61

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, now you got a good man got a good. It’s it’s awful with an end so mar awful Yemen I travel I travel a bit too much man too much.

00:40.64

Matt Watson

Um, done and spirit of dank.

00:50.41

Matt Watson

So So you know, really excited talked about Nfts you know there’s a lot of ah hype and and you know just talk about Nfts like. I’m looking through my news yesterday and there’s something about how you could buy like board apes or crypttounks or something on ebay for $50 each and and I just wonder for like you know how many people actually try and buy those on ebay for $50 and and don’t realize they’re they’re you know for sure getting scammed and. But to kind of start this conversation I’d love to hear your thought on like what what is an Nf What are Nftts like what what is your kind of viewpoint on that just as a starting point.

01:26.60

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, um I actually opened up ebay because I want to check later I’ve heard of this I never checked it. That’s insane. Um, but look the the definition of nfts even people within the space within crypto they don’t understand what it is. And and it’s going to surprise the audience. It will surprise you that nfts mean don’t mean what everyone thinks it does because Nftts are not collectibles in art. They not no collectible pickro exactly so so nfds is ah the best way to describe it.

01:55.39

Matt Watson

They’re a unique token right.

02:01.27

Mario Nawfal

Is a technological evolution that allows you to own things on the web now when you understand this and for entrepreneurs listening to this when you understand what the the definition I’m gonna give you now it will open because I know how you guys think I’ve been an entrepreneur all my life and the way I think is you know Ah, you know what an opportunity when it when it hits you. You know your eyes just widen up on like holy shit like I can do this I can do that you’re gonna get 1 of those moments now. So nfds allow you to own something in it on the web. What do I mean by this well you own the podcast mic you guys can’t see us but you know I own the phone next to me I own the airpods the laptop the headphones. Um. Theyre mine. The clothes, the suitcases and and as you said I’m a world traveler. So now I’m I’m in Morocco now I’ll be in Dubai in a couple of days and wherever I go these things I own my identity my stuff they’re mine whether I have a car whether I have a house It’s my stuff and that’s just the way the earth works on earth for hundreds. For thousands for tens of thousands of years humans have always owned their own assets even animals own their own assets. You know a lion wants this meat to be his He’s got this territory so the concept of ownership is normal in our life and entrepreneurs. You know all the businesses we build a lot of them are based on the concept of owning something. Whether you own the ecom product you’re selling whether you’re offering a service for a business that allows people to own Xyz now on the web since the internet has existed. You actually couldn’t own anything digitally but.

03:30.51

Matt Watson

We definitely don’t own our data and everybody takes our data and and you know profits from it. That’s for sure.

03:35.89

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, you don’t own your data. You know Youtube for videos on Youtube Youtube says you own it. You don’t actually own it Instagram Photos Instagram says you own it money the bank says you own that money of the bank. You know I was in Lebanon two days ago seeing 1 of our clients for two days and in lebanon and in cyprus I happened and it happens now in Ukraine and and having a issue in Russia banks are just freezing. People’s assets in Lebanon meant. It’s insane. They just the the bank completely frozen. You know people had millions in the bank. My client lost a fuck ton of money. It was just sitting in the bank and the bank just froze it because the economy took a dump.

03:56.82

Matt Watson

Right.

04:10.74

Mario Nawfal

Um, for various reasons they were very leveraged so it’s not you don’t own those you know and when it’s sitting numbers on the web now this will kind of digress. But when you have numbers on the web on the internet. The the the you know anyone can copy your image. Anyone can copy your video. Anyone can copy numbers on a screen. And pretend they have money but there’s middle parties that say you own something Instagram says you own photos Youtube videos a bank says you own those numbers online so there’s always been middle. Ah, third party saying who owns what now because it wasn’t technologically possible. To have this the oh you know to have something in your pocket like you have in the physical world that’s changed in 2017 in 2017 the concept of non-fungible tokens came out nft is non-fungible tokens which essentially allows someone to own something without a third party saying they own it and that opens an incredible world to us and. Well beyond ah collectibles at art because they’re they’re nothing. You know I don’t collect anything I don’t like art I don’t know about you man. But I’m sure if you look at everything you own collectibles and art are very small percentage of it and I’m sure the audience would would relate to this if you’re entrepreneurs, you probably have no. You know nothing collect was an notmost of you. So why is collectibles are not taking up. You know all the hype in Nfts well that’s your short term when you start to understand the Nfts could allow you to own your own gaming assets on a game on a decentralized game. Allows you to own financial instruments without a financial institution in the middle without a stock market without any of that then you be like holy shit like the the things that can that can be done now on the web is and that’s the concept of web 3 are a completely new shift in the way we can function on the internet. And that’s what’s happening right now. Beyond just collectibles and up.

06:00.29

Matt Watson

Well and you you talk about collectibles and art right? and and to me it seems like those are sort of and they’re most anonymous to me as as a real-world example of they’re like. They’re a digital version of baseball cards or something right like or beanie babies or or whatever kind of collectible things. But to me I think the best representation is something like baseball cards and by the way I have a giant box of baseball cards in my basement from when I was a little kid I have no idea what’s in there and maybe there’s like a billion dollars of the baseball cards in there I don’t know. But ah, too bet. It’s not like a billion dollars or the crypto punks I guess but it’s just it’s crazy to me that people buy Jpegs and you talk about the ownership of them and nfts. But when you really look under the covers and fofnft’s right at at really at the end of the day they’re just a pointer to an image file somewhere right? like. The the token itself just says you own this yeah url which a lot of times ah with an fts that url is actually hosted on a Google cloud or Amazon or whatever. Um, it’s like. You think you own a crypto punk or whatever but you really just own a yeah url to some file somewhere that somebody potentially could change the file right now there there’s different ways. All that stuff is done but it’s it’s just most people have no idea how it really works under the covers either.

07:18.27

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so the the issue you mentioned now is is something that is pretty funny thinking about it. You’ll find a lot of similar issues in you know the concept of digital ownership including let’s say art and collectibles because um. You know it’s very very early. You know early days of the internet you’re like you know who’s gonna sit there turning on a computer for 10 minutes to send an email. We can just write a letter and post them and mail fax something a lot quicker and those was in the early days in the internet so you’ll find a lot of and shortfalls a lot of issues in nfts. And they’re all being you know they all you know ones that we we know in the space. For example, an image hosted on on a central line on Aws on a centralized entity the whole concept of Nfts is digital ownership is you don’t need third parties. But then the image is sitting on a third party server. Yeah, so.

08:02.31

Matt Watson

Right? yeah.

08:06.93

Mario Nawfal

There’s already solutions to that. There’s ipfs I invested in five five con years ago where it’s hosted on a decentralized network where technically no one owns it. So it’s no longer pointing to an image on a third party ah server that you know the server could go down or the owner could remove the image and not pay the fees was that that obviously just complete stupidity. Um.

08:21.17

Matt Watson

Right.

08:26.51

Mario Nawfal

But look I’m I I’m deep in nf space I’m the Ceo of a company called Nft tech um, you know I should be like the the expert in the space and I own personally I own just a crypto bunk because I like it but I don’t own anything else like I don’t own any apes I don’t any punks anymore I’ve sold everything I don’t own any art digital art. Just because I think it’s just not as exciting but I own a lot of Nfts but none of them are are or collectibles I probably should buy a few and I’ll buy a few in the hype settles. But I’m I’m looking at the you know nfts open up the concept of the metaverse. Um, and you know they’re both very intertwined once you understand and what Nfts are.

09:02.00

Matt Watson

So so so tell us more about your company Nft Tech and it it looks like you guys. Did you start out as kind of like a investment fund or or hedge fund or whatever that basically took a bunch of investors money and bought a bunch of.

09:03.27

Mario Nawfal

But no matter Verse you need to have own stuff.

09:18.84

Matt Watson

Nfts and metaverse property and stuff like that is is that is that kind of the origin of it.

09:21.24

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so we didn’t start out as such. We started from the beginning as a company wanting to go public and we got the you know we reserved to tick your Nft to go public on the stock market so that was goal from the beginning and then and Neo Neo Neo Canada so neo and core.

09:33.41

Matt Watson

Which stock market by the way will that be like hot Canada. Okay.

09:40.59

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so then we go to will take us longer to get to the us so take at least a year and long process and then the goal of nf tech is is buying up a lot of these nf assets again I’m not putting any money in art and collectibles to be clear and but but um, but not even that man.

09:53.48

Matt Watson

So you’re talking more about the marketplaces themselves instead of the so your time about.

09:59.74

Mario Nawfal

Not even that like is is this source fascinating like you can so the metaverse for example, the whole digital world. We live in I’m not gonna go deep into it for that world to exist a decentralized digital world. You have to own stuff whether you own a spaceship in a game and you use that spaceship to play the game to earn money because you’re gonna earn money in those decentralized worlds. And to build the whole community. You know for gamers. It might relate to them for people that are not in the gaming space and I’m not from the gaming space. This might sound a bit weird in the beginning but like you know assets within games is something we look at you can look at ah you know digitizing real estate turning it into an Nft you can turn identity into Nft you can turn financial instruments. Nfts so I look at other applications of Nfts and they they interest me tremendously. But I also looks at the picks and shovels approach. So um, and you know buying up marketplaces something we look at not Nft in art and collectible marketplaces because I just think it’s too crowded but I’m looking at social tokens where be when you can tokenize. Someone’s reputation. But I’m really I’m really iped up about I’m hyped up about the metaverse and and what you can own within Ver Meta verse that digital world which are nfts you know I think nfts make up like ah like the atomic unit of the metaverse.

10:59.72

Matt Watson

Okay.

11:06.16

Matt Watson

So so what are so what are some of the bigger investments and and holdings then of of your of your company like do you guys own a lot of land and decentral land or sandbox or things like that or.

11:18.38

Mario Nawfal

Cool I’m glad you know the space? Well um, yeah, so so decentralized and sandbox. Um, we involved in those but we haven’t purchased assets or land there yet. But we we will be soon? um.

11:29.00

Matt Watson

Okay.

11:34.24

Mario Nawfal

We’ve been focusing more on on finding the next decentral land or sandbox and we’re invested in projects. There’s one called blocktopia and that we’re invested in and there’s one invested called citis heroes are invested in genome pets. There’s a few others you know I’m throwing names out there for people to Google and and like learn about them.

11:39.43

Matt Watson

Who.

11:50.60

Mario Nawfal

But they they’re projects that we they’re are there early you know blockop is already grown tremendously. It’s not early anymore and um and we’re buying assets in those because we think they’re undervalued and then eventually we’ll be buying a lot of um so you know land and and decentral land and sandbox and then. We buy a lot. We focus a lot on the gaming metaverses rather than the the metaverses that are more similar to the real life. We think gaming is going to be the first step in the adoption cycle of the matterverse. You know gamers have been living in a digital world or you know since they started gaming so like the metaverse makes sense to them. Um, so that’s where we’re focusing.

12:24.41

Matt Watson

So is your guys’s end goal by by creating this fund and and going public. You know at some point in time the future you know with the Nft ticker and stuff making it easier for somebody like me to be like you know I just want to you know invest in. The nft space and all this but I don’t really understand it and that gives me exposure to that you know type of asset class is is that ultimately the goal.

12:46.22

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so you know absolutely right without me explaining it. You got it pretty quickly because you know going into the space and you know you made the joke about people buying cryptopunks on Ebay which is insane but it’s like extreme extreme case scenario but people don’t understand what Nfts are and and the potential of them. So like all leave it with us. You know I’ve been encrypted for a long time. We have a team of people that are very involved in this space. Um, and you know all these traditional investors and retail investors will just buy the stock. That’s our goal. We’ll buy the stock on the market and then that stock.

13:15.40

Matt Watson

Right? It’s kind like been able to buy bitcoin ah but buying micro strategy or whatever right like micro strategy the company owns like billions of dollars in bitcoin. So it’s like if you buy stock and micro strategy. You’re really buying bitcoin indirectly.

13:22.27

Mario Nawfal

Um, yeah, exactly.

13:30.87

Mario Nawfal

Exactly exactly and then then what happens is like the valuation of but like you could it cheaper to buy bitcoin than to buy the equivalent than microrate stock and because you know a lot and that was interesting because a lot of people wanted exposure to the space and that was in the early bitcoin days now. It’s really easy to buy bitcoin everyone can but in the early days or some.

13:45.21

Matt Watson

Right.

13:49.20

Mario Nawfal

More difficult and people were a bit more scared and then um, funds and stuff didn’t know how to put it on their balance sheets so buying Micro strategy stock just made more sense for them and then the valuation just went up like an index fund of bitcoin and you know if you had an index fund. It will be valued more.

13:59.76

Matt Watson

Right.

14:05.50

Mario Nawfal

Um, so we’re doing the same thing but for the Nfd in the metaverse space.

14:06.00

Matt Watson

So so how do people track their assets like if they buy a bunch of different Nfts and you can buy them across multiple blockchains by the way. So a lot of our listeners may not be very familiar with this but you know you go back like eighteen months ago two years ago mostly there was. You know, of course you have bitcoin but then ethereum was the the big blockchain that was used for smart contracts but over the last 12 to 18 months now there’s like 20 more of them and probably like a hundred more of them that I don’t know the names of but I could probably name 15 or 20 of them. Um, and it’s like how how do you buy all these Nfts across all these different things. And track them know what they’re worth like I feel like I’m buying you know baseball cards and they’d be in a bunch of random drawers all over my house like how would you track all this stuff.

14:51.15

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so it’s another one of those issues because it’s so early. It’s all scattered I think interoperability will be a big thing in the next few years where all these different blockchains will become interoperable. There’ll be a few winners of course and each blockchain will have its own use case now we’re talking to a matterdiverses project that’s deciding between I think it was flow. Polygon and hidea. You know they’re discussing those 3 we kind of decided on either hidea or polygon um, but then you know we look at polygon as the metaverse ah blockchain so that each blockchain will have its own use case now’s got to your question about having these Nft on these different blockchains enough. You know, just look at the blockchains that that um. Um, you know, ah gaining the most traction right now is obviously is ethereum. Um, but if you get other nfts on blockchains that are gaining traction that are very early. It’s a bigger gamble because the blockchain could fail like many failed since 2017 you know Eos is a great example hasn’t failed but it’s not doing too. Well um, and then but if it.

15:31.44

Matt Watson

Right.

15:47.25

Mario Nawfal

Succeeds you know you came in really early and you benefited but there’s also marketplaces you know there’s one called nf trade that we’re invested in. It’s an nft marketplace I think it was mainly focused on algaandnd and nfts I think um and he’s algoran and um, but they allow interoperability between different blockchains. You can list and trade nfds from different chains. Really cool. So for the for the for the audience listing now if you go on like let’ a platform for nftt nf trade and if you go on that platform and you buying Nft on ethereum you’ll be able to trade it on an ft on algorithm. But for you, you wouldn’t know just trade two nfts because like that one over the other. Um. But it still very early and and that’s another reason why the retail market doesn’t know where to start I get people every day you know I told you I traveled to dance every freaking time I go to dance people are coming to me they know because I’m in nfs hey should I buy these monkey and nfs I’m like fuck what monkey nfs man you’ve don’t bond don’t buy any nfts because it it just.

16:29.30

Matt Watson

Yeah.

16:41.84

Mario Nawfal

Shows that lack lack of knowledge means they’re the ones that end up losing money and the people within in the space make the money.

16:44.68

Matt Watson

You know it it the same story like it blows me away I see random family members and I ask them about you know cryptocurrency at bitcoin or whatever and they’ll tell me like oh yeah I bought some crypto I downloaded robinhood and I bought a few thousand dollars with a dochecoin I’m like are you fucking kidding me. Like all the stuff you possibly could have done like it’s the same story of like I bought Nfts and and I bought the squiggly lines have I saw an Nft collection a couple days ago. There was nothing but squiggly lines that were different colors I’m like who buys this shit like I just like blows my mind I don’t understand.

17:18.78

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so I think the concept of Nftds now all the ah there’s 2 things to them and smart money’s going after quote unquote collectibles which are think like you know in a few decades when Nfftd’s become a normal part of life. You’ll find those early Nft being. Ah you know they were 1 of the early ones you know. In anything really the first gun ever used in the world would probably be in a museum somewhere the first car ever is in a museum so they think it’s it exactly exactly like blue chips like kleptori cryptounks board apes fidenzas all these early early nfts. Um.

17:41.24

Matt Watson

Sure the crypto punks will forever be a collector’s item.

17:55.65

Mario Nawfal

Many of them. They consider bluechis already Really expensive. Um, now they might correct and stuff but long term I’m pretty bullish on them. But then you get all these other art. It’s purely degenerate gamblers playing money playing with their money. That’s it either degenerate gamblers or pump and dumpers. That’s it.

18:10.83

Matt Watson

And the other ones I think that are weird is you get these people that take like a tweet or a meme or something like that and then they sell the the rights to the meme or whatever I guess like it just some of this just blows me away because at the end of the day they’re just Jpegs right? like.

18:21.26

Mario Nawfal

Um, yeah.

18:28.36

Matt Watson

My avatar on Twitter is a board ape I didn’t buy it I don’t know I didn’t spend $200000 for it. But I just download the Jpeg file and upload it as my picture on Twitter right.

18:37.86

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, but that’s this yeah I would I would I would correct you there because um, not correct you I would agree and but I would kind of take it I have I’ll have you look at it in a different way. You know there’s a Mona Lisa sitting in in in Louvre.

18:52.45

Matt Watson

M.

18:54.58

Mario Nawfal

But I can have a Mona Lisa in my house right now Dolltaisy I’m saying at ah at a friend’s house. He’s got all these beautiful paintings their originals but anyone I could just take a photo of it and put it in another apartment but it’s worthless because it’s not the original. It’s the same thing with board ape. So if someone goes to your profile. They’ll see your board a but they can verify in Twitter putucet.

19:12.36

Matt Watson

Sure Yeah, they make it a hex a hexagon.

19:14.80

Mario Nawfal

A a check to verify? Yeah no, but yeah, exactly so. So if you have ah an unverriified board a and then someone checks and finds out hey this is actually just a copybase from a signaling perspective. It’s not a good look now not yet very early now could actually look pretty dope like a man you know like like could be like an anti movement like you know. Fuck this trend and fuck and sorry for curcy on if I can but screw these this train and the board apes but that if someone has a real one on their profile. It’s a good signal It’s like driving a rolls Royce or wearing a rolex. So um, there is you know the concept of just copy pasting. Is what you know the hurdle that many people need to get over it because you can copy paste the Mona Lisa so doesn’t mean that all these are are legitimate every tweet that gets turned into an Nft is legitimate. Um, it just means that ah there will be some. You know if you manage to get the first letter written by you know Lincoln. The first letter he wrote oh his his whatever speech when he was when he became president if you had the physical copy I’ll be pretty dope. Now you can have the same thing digitally so you have the you know the first tweet by the founder of Twitter you can actually own that tweet because he sold the rights to it now.

20:24.23

Matt Watson

Ah.

20:27.37

Mario Nawfal

It’s very early like what do these rights mean how does it work etc. What must says I own it. He turned into 10 Nft but like later what it could mean is that this is this. He turned it into an Nft once and that nf is owned by someone so these are actually the rights because he said they’re the rights so as ah as you start to accept the concept of digital ownership. The concept of owning things like pictures and videos and tweets and quotes and stuff in the digital world will become closer and closer to owning the same thing in the physical world but it will take 1.

20:54.83

Matt Watson

No I and I I think you’re right? And by the way I need to remind everybody that today’s episode is brought to you by fullskele io hoping you build software team quickly and affordably which could be software for tracking nfds. Whatever you want to build. We can hope you do it. We’ve got a huge team of of developers ready to go. So you you bring up a really good point because you bring you bring the example of like the Mona Lisa or you know the declaration of independence or any of those things right? like anybody could take a picture of the Mona Lisa like I could take a picture of the moni lis of the Mona Lisa or Starry Knight or name any famous art I could just take picture of it right? and I could print out the. Picture on canvas probably online for like $100 and hang it on my wall but it’s not the real thing right? It’s it’s not the original and you know I guess with anything that would be considered a collectible or art. It’s it’s only worth what. People perceive it to be worth and and the demand for for buying it right? like if nobody wanted to buy the original Mona Lisa it wouldn’t be worth anything either and but but you’re right, there’s there’s a certain and there’s certain it’s different of owning the original Mona Lisa than it would be saying like well I own a copy of it. You know I scanned it and I just printed it. That nobody would nobody would see value in it now at the same time like I don’t see value in my mom’s beanie baby collection either like when she dies I will just throw them in a dumpster so everybody perceives perceives this different like everybody’s interested in different things and everybody would would argue that things are more valuable than others right? I’m sure in her will she thinks. Beanie babies are worth more than the house. But it’s just interesting but you bring up a really good point of like you know, even physical art people could make a copy of it. But that doesn’t mean that the copy’s worth anything. Um, but it to me it. It still largely feels like so like speculation.

22:43.56

Mario Nawfal

Very speculative very very because um so I’ve got 2 things to say I’m not an odd collector. Um I used to collect stamps and stuff in coins when I was much younger when I was a kid but I’m not a collector and I find ought to be such a waste of of energy and and time and. And I just find it to be really silly and I don’t like art at all. Um, so just to be clear. We’re on the same page here and then you know what is something worth is what the market values it up so are all these stupid pictures on on an Nft pictures worth what they say? Oh no, well as I said a lot of them are degenerates the speculators and people are not too educated.

23:09.65

Matt Watson

Yeah, absolutely.

23:21.82

Mario Nawfal

Buying them up because they think any Monkey is the same as a board a um so and these other people are not not too educated about the space and then speculators want to try to flip it because there’s so much liquidity and degenerate gamblers just have nothing to do and you know some of them make good money. They’re good at flipping it and they get early access. Um but will some what will these be what will. What will these be worth you know I have to I’m gonna deploy Capital I’m gonna buy some of these collectibles and art when the hype dies down but how do I look at the Space. So I look at the two things I look for to to determine What gives it value I had a few speeches about this first one I look at is the community. You know something like board Apes have a really powerful community A lot of celebrities bought board apes. And you know they’re forming these groups these get Togethers. So I see board as as a ticket to this community that could evolveve into something much bigger that could be game. Yeah so Board Apps is really is much easier to see the value because of the community aspect. Um, then you look at others that don’t have that community. What I look for with something that hasn’t built that Community is the story behind it.

24:04.91

Matt Watson

Which is really cool.

24:19.50

Mario Nawfal

Like cryptounks being one of the first ever nftt um avat advertisings collectibles. Um, you know, ah you see one of the first you know the first people for example, people has a really good story of having done hundreds and hundreds of not thousands of pieces of art and he’s he’s one of the early artists that brought nfts to the mainstream. That’s a story that will stand the test of time. So I see people people’s work to be a you know having a good solid story behind it? Um, so as I look at more. Um you know more pieces of of nftr I look at the story behind them in the community to determine if they have value. Um and that’s where I know that. Definitely over 99% are worthless or close to worthless.

24:58.67

Matt Watson

Well and and to me a lot of it just seems like speculation. There’s got to be thousands of Nft projects that launch every day and you see places like so for those who are listening. You know one of the largest marketplaces is open CO it’s openseaopenc I o is one of the largest marketplaces to to buy Nfts and and there are others but it it seems and what I was going to say is they would tell you that like 80 or 90% of all the stuff that gets listed on. There is copies and fraud and stuff like that because like I could I could go down to my basement right? and I could scan all those. Baseball cards and I could make nfts out of every one of them be like it’s Ken Griffy Juniors Ricky card now is an Nft or whatever right? like and I’m sure Topps you know baseball cards would come back around later and be like okay that no like I read something about magic the gathering cards somebody had made Nfts of magic the gathering cards like and you get people that copy. Board apes and cryptopunks that just like reverse them or just download the images and reupload them and then try and sell them like you get countless. You know, kind of ah scam and fraud that’s out there.

26:02.54

Mario Nawfal

Is like it. Yeah, it’s very easy to create an nftt like for anyone listening It’s so damn easy and do one I should probably do one myself like just for fun, not sell it but just to see the process and how easy it is. She’s got to get nice digital up and just post on opee. The process is extremely simple. And say he’s like creating a website. All of us can create a website you can create a hundred website doesn’t mean that website will have value. You know in the dot Com Era Everyone will create a website. You know put a business plan together and raise money and try to go public and you get some money with something you know will.

26:35.45

Matt Watson

That’s where Nfts are right now. Ah.

26:37.20

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, exactly. So if is the same thing anyone just created and if’s even worse because there’s no you know people are just buying it directly on open sea. You don’t need to business plan or anything you see a fake story and that’s it or ah or story behind it. So we’ll see a lot of these Nft projects either. They’re pure scams or rug pools and and they’ll immediately go to you know, go 0 very quickly. Or there people actually trying to build something but as soon as the market corrects and like holy crap. There’s not much money now. There’s no one’s interested. Maybe I should just stop and take my money instead of using that money to build a business like I promised I’m just gonna walk away and I made some money selling them. So um, even like you know Goodheartedd entrepreneurs would be like hey it’s not worth it and then you know put the ethics out of the window. So yeah, it’s gonna be a ah shit show soon in my opinion, go ahead.

27:17.26

Matt Watson

So I was going to say so we’ve talked a lot about the arts and c collecttible side of it I’m I’m kind of curious you know for for your guys this company and and your you know portfolio of assets. You know what are some of the other big. Nft spaces that are out there and I think there’s there’s some other really interesting ones. We talked about the metaverse and and stuff too but like are you familiar with um with what Snoop dog just did with with his album release and um death row records is doing and all that stuff.

27:47.14

Mario Nawfal

Ah I heard something recently. He’s done a few things. Can you tell me which one.

27:51.59

Matt Watson

Um, and I and I’m not I don’t remember the exact details of it but he he released his album and I think he was selling nfts for like $5000 a piece or something and it was like 10000 pieces of his album or something like that and he raised like. Thought it was like $40000000 the week after the super bowl and and so I think part of that is too like gala music is that part of is that one of the ah the marketplaces are familiar with that. It’s just interesting. What my point is it’s interesting. What musicians are trying to do um you hear a lot about musicians are making more money from.

28:17.97

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, yeah.

28:27.50

Matt Watson

Their nfts then they would make you know from their from their album deals and I was just curious. You know, do you do you know much about the music part of this.

28:34.58

Mario Nawfal

No, so I was talking to. There’s there’s a big name in the space called anamoka brands and they’re looking very heavily into the music space. So we’re gonna start and we’re talking about k-pop and you know getting kpop into the matterverse I think’s selling nftt versions of ah of of your album I think it’s interesting because you can break up. Whenever you buy a song on ah on a decentralized platform I don’t know how gala works and I’ve talked to some in the early days so that was a concept I looked at in the early days now I’m too deep into the into the meverse and then you can when you buy a song and Nft version of the song instead of buying it on Spotify and Spotify makes the money you kind of get a piece of the. Royalty from everyone else buying a song so you get a piece of the song. Um, so let’s say someone launches a song and you get nftt representing royalty in that song if you think the song will will do oh. Not only can you listen to the song because you like it but you get a piece of the revenue it generates more people buy it and listen to it on platforms I don’t know if that’s how gala works. Um. But what interests me in what ah artists are doing is they creating you know I’ll I’ll study dig into the metaverse and I’ll link it to music because you start to have those meta verses around you know around kop you have one around hip hop around particular celebrities and you know first what the meta verse is for anyone listening. It’s ah it’s ah the way I describe. It’s like a digital representation of the physical world. We live in today and then you take out physics so without predetermined physics. So. The first part is digital representation of the physical world. What’s pretty easy to understand you look at how we live life here and can live a similar life in the in the digital world. Um, and then you take out physics because there’s no physics. You know that you can you can teleport. You can fly. You know you can do anything one. It’s all within the code of the metaverse. So and if you you haven’t watched ready play I want just watch the first maybe five ten minutes of it just the intro and it gives you an idea of how the world could look very good id.

30:09.23

Matt Watson

Um, yeah.

30:23.87

Mario Nawfal

And it all be decentralized thanks to Nft so it will be literally like earth where you can own stuff. You can operate can move from 1 metaverse to another and and where music is interesting is that not only can you have concerts in the meverse and that’s already happening but you can also move. You can also have like different meta verses. Anyone can create a meta verse like anyone can create an nfd like anyone can create a website. Gives value to a meta versus adoption people using it so you can have a metaverse amount kpop you go in there. You can meet your celebrities. You can interact with others in that community because metaverses are just communities of people same way, you know so you know neighborhoods and a metaverse. Yeah, exactly like.

30:54.88

Matt Watson

Instead of going to a Discord chat or something like that. You’re going to ah a metaverse. Yeah.

31:01.48

Mario Nawfal

You know thisord is itself is a matterver the same way Facebook changed to matter discord tiktok youtube zoom I find all these to become eventually grow into the medivers we imagine? Yeah, the communities in the digital world and and that’s what the metaver is. It’s a digital representation of the physical world where socializing is signaling and building communities.

31:07.70

Matt Watson

Their communities.

31:20.67

Mario Nawfal

And experiences is what makes up our world. A big part of our world in the physical world. So the same is going to happen virtually and in the music space. You can have. Ah yeah, as I said like a k-pop me verse where you can have concerts meet your your favorite celebrities meet others that share those some same values except trading collectibles of those kpup artists as nftds. So um, yeah, that that’s like gives you an idea of what how I think the head of the space will head in the next five years but we’re we’re focused a lot on gaming now as I said earlier I think in the intro. Um, because I think this is like how the space is starting out like the the first adopt is in the matter verse.

31:51.30

Matt Watson

So what? So what’s a good example of using Nftts in games and and let me and let me add to that you know why? Why is the blockchain needed for that and so for example. You know you can play fortnite and you can buy skins and you can buy you know dances and all this stuff and you don’t need the blockchain for that right? The blockchain is absolutely not required so what is it about the blockchain that provides you know some additional power there for for these types of games.

32:24.49

Mario Nawfal

Perfect question. But um, so if if fortnight you know goes bankrupt in five years time. All the skins that you’ve purchased all the value that you bring build your your reputation and the the relationships everything you’ve built on fortnite. Is gone with the platform or if you break their terms of service. They can disable your account you lose everything but I’m sure if I watch something on this phone that I’m not meant to watch Samsung Iss not going to come and take my phone the same way a game could come in and take your assets because I own it. But in fortnite you don’t own your assets.

32:57.64

Matt Watson

Here.

33:02.18

Mario Nawfal

So means if fortnite goes to zero the zero the asset has go to zero two because fortnight is no longer there to say that you own them and to have utility anywhere. That’s number 1 but number 2 which is a lot more interesting is interoperability where the assets on a decentralized game on the blockchain. Could become interoperable with other decentralized games on the blockchain that means you can go from 1 game to another with the same assets the same way I’m gonna go from from Morocco to Dubai with this phone. It’s my asset. So let’s say you have a spaceship in a game called citus heroes and then you go to another game called star atlas they’re both games on the blockchain.

33:29.71

Matt Watson

M.

33:37.99

Mario Nawfal

That spaceship can go to star atlas and you could use it there. Maybe the utility will change in some ways to fit the game and what the game is about and how the game works and the game talking to the game mechanics but the spaceship could go from 1 place to another so can your team you can move your players from one to another along with their guns and let’s say they mine some ore and and build some some asset.

33:55.93

Matt Watson

Now Can you do that today.

33:57.83

Mario Nawfal

Some of them for all them. No no, it’s too early. No way like the games haven’t even launched Citis aling just launch the Beta version or about to.

34:01.96

Matt Watson

Well and I mean to me usually those assets are very tied to the game right? like so axy infinity is one of the largest games and if you own ah slp which is the smooth love potions or whatever or you own characters in axy infinity like they’re not good in any other game right? It’s all. To that game. So. It’s the same thing if axi infinity showed down you lost you would lose whatever you have and but the metaverse part of this is interesting like can you transfer assets from 1 metaverse to another. So for example, you have these people that’ll spend like crazy amounts of money to buy shoes or purses or things like that in the metaverse to decorate your avatar right. But do those assets transfer from 1 metaverse to another.

34:41.67

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so so I’ll go to the first point about if actually goes to 0 the assets don’t necessarily go to 0 at least almost not there yet. It’s getting closer and closer where even if axi or the founders go to 0 first, you actually selfcon’ go to 0 lististic community decides not to use it anymore. Like there’s no company that can go bankrupt because of mismanagement. Whatever. But then you can actually have those assets you own them those nfts those axes you own them so anyone could build a new blockchain a new game and say hey I built a new game. This is how it works come bring your axes there and you have 10 people do that 20 people do that. And now your axes are interoperable among all those games and each games will have its own rules on what you could do with those accident because you own them there in your Walle exactly exactly certain

35:18.78

Matt Watson

So as long as they as long as they as long as they write code around that Nft contract ah has some capability then they can look for that Nft contract or whatever and import those contracts into their game.

35:31.40

Mario Nawfal

Exactly like this? yeah and and there’s a there’s there’s a good experiment being done called luot and luot is essentially a bunch of basic basic and you know it’s essentially words and each one represents an item that’s it. And then the community that they did as an experiment each one’s an Nft and the community’s building a whole game around it. Everyone’s building different games and similar to roleblox anyone can build the game on robblox and different ones will get adoption. So with a you can have different members of the community build up their own games now I guess it’s way too early to see this in an unpractical level.

35:55.48

Matt Watson

Um, yeah.

36:06.96

Mario Nawfal

But this is where it’s working towards and where the space is heading to and that’s why there’s so much money flowing into those you know these are smart investors. That’s what they expect to happen and now you ask the other question about you know with other Meta versus other games. Can you do that again. Not yet because it’s very complex each each game has own game economy.

36:23.17

Matt Watson

Yeah.

36:25.76

Mario Nawfal

And to to add another asset they they’re still trying to figure out their own economy and that’s really complex to add another asset from 1 game into this game I think it’s at least 5 at least 5 years away from seeing at least you know some basic aspect to that and then you know, even yeah.

36:39.12

Matt Watson

Well and and and all this makes sense to me I mean I’m I’m forty years old but twenty five years ago maybe a little more than twenty five years ago I used to play text based games online over modem right? over twenty five years ago like like dungeons and dragons kinds of game except you know I’m typing on the keyboard you know, walk forward walk left walk right? Attack monster pick up the gold. But hey if you had the best sword you could kill monsters a lot faster right? and I actually bought I think for like fifty bucks back then a sword from somebody else in the real world and they sent it to me right. And I get that um the blockchain and or some of these other games themselves are making it easier now for players to buy stuff from each other but that concept has existed for a long time It’s just dramatically easier today and like I said I did that all like twenty five years ago

37:21.41

Mario Nawfal

Are.

37:27.76

Mario Nawfal

Oil. Yeah, so you can buy assets So That’s why I didn’t mention the content a lot of people like to mention it like now on the blockchain anyone can buy your assets you can trade them. You can say that’s not too hard to build on a centralized platform always look at Okay, what are the benefits that blockchain brings and.

37:39.55

Matt Watson

Um, yeah.

37:45.61

Matt Watson

Exactly.

37:48.45

Mario Nawfal

Which ones can actually be done today then those ones are not that interesting because they can be done today interoperability where different games work together and that can be done Today. You can have different games make a deal and work together but are still dependent on those central entities making a deal with their financial incentives not aligned with the community whereas a decentralized game it’s a community that builds it. It’s a community that makes the know if you go out and build different games for axy the the community that goes to adopt that game. They get a piece of it. So with axy the profits and that’s why people play the game to make money I distribute it among the players. So it’s ah it’s a kind of a. A paradigm shift in how it’s all structured from centralized entities doing jvs and agreements on how things should work and still controlling those assets having some sort of control to a community where anyone could build anything Anyone could build a game that works with axy that’s interoperable with axy that’s where it’s heading but not anyone could build the game that’s interoperable with. B lizards game. Whatever ah you know, let’s say counter strike or whatever because counter strike needs to agree to allow the assets to be interopable. But if you’ve got actually. For example, we got an an action in action infinity. It’s in Era Rc twenty oh no yeahs something. It’s so on the on the it’s it’s on the polygon. No, it’s on the on their own blockchain. And by it’s on the yeah er rc twenty protocol and any game could use that protocol and allow those assets to be used there and he talked about having accessories on them on on on an avatar.

39:09.65

Matt Watson

Yeah, yeah.

39:14.29

Mario Nawfal

That’s probably the easiest one to start having interoperable can move from decentralized to sandbox to blockedop yet to others wearing your Gucci bag to show that you’re rich.

39:20.35

Matt Watson

What? Ah. Okay so one of the final things I definitely want to ask about. But as we you know start to wind down this episode today and and once again, this episode is brought to you by Fullskill Io hope you can build software teams quickly and affordably is how do you feel about meta you know Facebook. And where they’re going with this metaverse and all and all this stuff and first of all I think it’s absolutely hilarious that in their version of the metaverse people don’t even have legs. There are no legs because the software developers aren’t sure how to make the legs work like no other video game in the last

39:48.31

Mario Nawfal

Not I see that um.

39:58.55

Matt Watson

30 years hasn’t had game like like everybody else like make freaking legs in a video game like I understand yeah there are no legs in horizons but what.

40:04.34

Mario Nawfal

Yeah I think yeah cause I think they wanted to interrupt like when you wear the oculus you can use your hands to operate you can use this but I don’t know why they can’t put something on the legs. Um, maybe they’re worried because you know to be able I’m just gonna guess you maybe because you know Oculus I punched the wall once when I first got an oculus on day one.

40:09.34

Matt Watson

Right. Is crazy.

40:21.54

Matt Watson

Um.

40:22.20

Mario Nawfal

Because I moved around too much and I had the oculist and I was playing the boxing game and I punched the wall. So maybe if you move your legs too much. It could cause safety risk I could be completely off maybe technological issue but in terms of changing the name to meta freaking. Genius I think that’s really smart and it makes a lot of sense. And now a lot of people in crypto hate the the fact that they did that and they’re owning the word. Um you know from and from a business perspective I think it’s a very smart move. You know Facebook is a dying platform they got ah you know and an immense immense community a lot of users. So they’re perfectly positioned to build an incredible metaverse and I’m pretty confident they will. They’ve got the money to spend. They’ve got the people there and now does it worry me about them controlling the metaverse. No because anyone that understands how the metaverse works you know Amazon and Facebook and and and Youtube and ticktock control most of the web. Most people go on the web and they use. Go on your phone you use five six apps at most. But there’s the hundreds of thousands of apps for not millions. Um, so it’s the same thing you know this human nature. It’s the same thing’s goingnna happen on the metaverse. The metaverse itself I would like to call it the multiverse as a technology is decentralized the same way. Anyone can create a website anyone can create an app anyone can create a metaverse including Facebook.

41:16.44

Matt Watson

Oh yeah.

41:32.81

Mario Nawfal

Um, so them creating a metaverse um is not a bad thing. People will go use it and people don’t like it. They’ll go use another one. Um now people that are really against centralization. They don’t like the fact that Facebook will have some meta will have so much power in that new virtual world. But what did you expect? you know humans are in the physical world. Humans will be in the virtual world. So the imperfections of humanity will exist exist in both paradigms.

41:55.33

Matt Watson

But I always feel like the percentage of people that actually care about decentralization has got to be like less than 1% my like my kids play roblox and minecraft I mean they would play all these games these blockchain they wouldn’t give 2 shits about what.

42:02.10

Mario Nawfal

Very little very little like they care about.

42:12.92

Matt Watson

You know blockchain it used if it was the central and they don’t care about they. They just want to play the game. They don’t care but software engineers like and and some of us that are in the community like we get overly worked up about it.

42:21.80

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, like I don’t get too worked up about it but mainly do li liber liberarians um I’m pro pronouncing right? Libertarians say say in France for me. Yeah, they they they take it very seriously. Um, you know for ideological reasons. Um I think it’s.

42:31.75

Matt Watson

Libertarians. Sure.

42:39.76

Mario Nawfal

What will really allow for mass adoption is not the the fact that it’s decentralized but the values it brings because it’s decentralized. Okay now I can own my assets in the virtual world the same way I can own them here like I own my toy here and I can go from country to country with my favorite Toy. Can buy my favorite gun in the game and move different games using that done so that concept of interoperability will be great. The matterverse will not all be decentralized I like to call it the multiverse which is like many matter verses existing.

43:05.71

Matt Watson

I Never heard anybody refer to use the word multiverse in relation to the metaverses. But I think I think that’s ah, that’s a great term to use I think you’re absolutely right? And what the thing that I don’t understand is why people spend so much money on land in these games is because it. And Reality. There’s like unlimited land.

43:24.34

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, no there isn’ an unlimited land. The first part of what you said is like I don’t know what? yeah so so what I mean by this is on on these says unlimited land the same way. There’s unlimited websites but it doesn’t mean Facebook is not valuable because there’s anyone could copy Facebook.

43:30.12

Matt Watson

I’m a software developer I Know there’s unlimited land I can tell port anywhere.

43:37.63

Matt Watson

Yeah.

43:43.82

Mario Nawfal

So and Land is worthless unless someone’s using that matter Verse where the land exists so there is unlimited land but it doesn’t give it all value so on decentral land which is one of the top Meta verses that will have most likely a lot of adoption. Um, that Land is limited and the only way to create more land is is if.

43:46.66

Matt Watson

Yeah.

44:00.99

Mario Nawfal

Owners of existing land vote for more land to be created so in that sense. It’s not unlimited within decentral land Now if anyone the same way. There’s you know it’s like saying ethereum is worthless because anyone could copy ethereum No because none of them have the adoption. So the adoption is what counts? um and and so I wanted to touch on that. But I think like land.

44:11.32

Matt Watson

Sure.

44:20.65

Mario Nawfal

The use case of land will change that people are buying land because they’re meant to own land. No like you don’t need to sleep go to the toilet and eat in the meadverse you could just sign out on the platform So people need to start looking at it as it. Yeah like if you’re online there should there be a use case to it Beyond building a house to meet people because doesn’t make sense.

44:31.30

Matt Watson

Ah, yeah, why do we own land there.

44:40.37

Mario Nawfal

Um, but yeah, so so I think the way we look at the metaverse will change over time and and the reason I like to use the world multiverse because I think there’ll be centralized meta verses because there’s a lot of benefits to centralized meta versuss and a lot of us. Don’t mind if they centralized there’ll be decentralized meta verses and there’ll be a hybrid of both where. It will be centralized in some aspects. It will be run by a company like Facebook Meta but it will also have decentralized aspects. We can own your assets on they and move them from you. Can you can move your assets you can move your axi from actually infinity and their metavers because they’re expanding to a metavers can move your axi from there to metas. Ah Metas Metavis

45:15.12

Matt Watson

Well, it’s it’s definitely an interesting world that we’re going to I mean I’m one of those people that you know when I want to ah chill on the couch tonight and watch Netflix I just want to do that I don’t want have to like sign into the metaverse and then go they go like there. There’s a point of insanity here where where some people think this could go.

45:16.78

Mario Nawfal

And it can follow you around.

45:34.54

Matt Watson

But I definitely feel like um virtual reality headsets like the oculus ah is super powerful like my kids have one and it is definitely totally different being able to use a ah ah virtual reality headset like that and the feeling of it is so dramatically different than you know, just. Playing a normal video game on a computer or Xbox or whatever like vr definitely changes the game where things feel so dramatically different and realistic and you know my ah meta Facebook was you know smart for for buying them and and. What they’ve done with that. You know like I think there was more oculus headsets sold last year than Xboxes like to just create insane. But they’re super cool and they’re only like $300 I think us dollars. Um, but we’re still on the cutting edge of of that. But you know a lot of these metaverses don’t actually use vr right.

46:12.90

Mario Nawfal

Um, that’s insane.

46:27.87

Matt Watson

Um, there’s some that do. But I think the ones that do I think in the in the future will have very unique experiences like if I could use a Vr headset and go into the metaverse and like get customer service. You know or feel like I’m at a store like I’m shopping like for shoes or I’m shopping for something and just the more realistic part of it is so dramatically different than just like watching a video about going to that same store. It’s just totally different.

46:51.28

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so the immersive nature of the metaver will something interesting. It’s gonna be like I mean we’re already in the Meverse. You know when when I’m talking to you on Zoom I’m tuned out what’s happening around me I think you’re the same when I when I’ve got 3 pairs of airpods always with me always wherever I go. And because I’m always tuned in I’m listening to I’m talking to my team on Whatsapp on Youtube on Zoom and I’m in that digital world already. So if you think about it we are in the medavas but it’s a very archaic version of it web 2 I like to call it the web two metavers or it’s like you know you know 2 wo-way communication. But there’s not much more to it. And now we’re moving to web three metavers we can own things and go be be more immersive, etc. But Oculus is insane like I recommend anyone wanting to enter the space to buy one because it will change your I’ve given it to a few people I’ve bought a few to investors that want to understand the space especially real traditional investors and I remember 1 guy really wealthy guy. Ah, bought him in Oculus after meeting him. he’s an indian guy and he’s like um hi can you be who owns who owns Oculus I’m like hey man like he wanted to buy it and I came man I don’t think you can buy oculus you know Facebook owns it now he wants to be a distributor and he was like very very very traditional of an investor.

48:00.85

Matt Watson

Yeah, yeah, it’s pretty cool stuff. Really cool stuff. Well thank you so much for having you on the show today and we’re doing a whole series of episodes about nftts I think we’ll have a new episode every week about nfts covering different topics and glad to have you part of this and.

48:01.30

Mario Nawfal

But when they use the oculus it changes on like holy shit now I get it.

48:20.80

Matt Watson

Um, really love what you’re doing and wish you guys all the best luck as you continue to create this Nft fund and maybe one of these days I will ah I’ll be an investor in it as as one last question I’m kind of curious like what kind of return rates. You know, do you. Foresee like investors getting that invest in a fund like yours.

48:38.16

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, so obviously I can’t I can’t ah do projections like this before my board kind of crucifis me. But yeah, so so crypto the way I put it is crypto has the potential to get people go to go bankrupt if you don’t understand the space and it’s so easy to put your money. You know be you know the.

48:43.72

Matt Watson

As sure. Sure.

48:52.12

Matt Watson

Oh yeah.

48:56.91

Mario Nawfal

Late person to put in a money before everyone dumps or to come in late after all the hype is gone. Um, but at the same time if you’re early, you’ve seen it like if you look at returns. There’s insane returns and I’ll talk on a personal level There’s a project called blocktopia and the Nft tech invested and but um, ah. Gives giving you numbers to give you an idea of like the things you see in crypto block topia it’s you can believe this man from launch two months later to to three months later they were at over three hundred and something x so that means you put in? Yeah, so let me do some math if you put in a hundred k.

49:29.45

Matt Watson

That’s crazy.

49:33.20

Matt Watson

And you and you guys were able to invest in the very beginning of that. Wow.

49:34.62

Mario Nawfal

Times three hundred six seven yeah we invested privately so we were sitting at three out and 30 x a hundred k is sitting out to 3 1 to $33000000 and I think it hit blockctopia from memory. It hit like a 5 300 x for id investors foreseed in private investors from memory. You hit like a. 4 to 500 x that means like a hundred k investment is like $50000000 um, it’s insane numbers now. It’s corrected I think now’s sitting at about a hundred x the market corrected which is still insane. Um, so that’s crypto for you. It’s not It’s not easy to make money.

49:58.27

Matt Watson

That’s crazy.

50:03.40

Matt Watson

Still insane.

50:09.86

Mario Nawfal

But being early in the space and especially having that early access and I’ve been in the space long enough to see this. Um you know gives you a really unfair advantage and that’s saw when someone comes to me, you know, ah, just nothing to do with Nft Deck just went onim personalson ever like Mario should I go buy n fts I’m like no unless you’re gonna go really deep in the space and I had that last night. Unless you’re gonna go really deep in the space and understand the space and spend hours and hours and study it for weeks and months and build relationships so you get in early otherwise you’re gonna be screwed likely gonna be screwed so that’s my lot people.

50:37.35

Matt Watson

Um, otherwise otherwise you end up like me that’s figured out every way to lose money in crypto.

50:41.74

Mario Nawfal

Yeah, but it’s insane. It’s so easy to lose money People don’t don’t see that.

50:47.60

Matt Watson

Yep, well thank you so much for being on the show today. Um, any final words you want to won’t tell our audience where we close out here.

50:51.62

Mario Nawfal

Now guys look be careful. Be careful obviously on a business level check out http://nftte.com so nfttech dot com I think you subscribe to a mailing list where we’ll be sharing a lot of this insight. So if you want to hear more of me what I have to say I’ll be saying it on the on you know on the various channels that we have at Nft tech but on a personal level. Just be really really careful the space you know we might excite you with a lot of these things and and where the space is heading but you know things could drop by 90%. You know the the I’ll leave you with this the human brain overestimates the short term impact of innovation but underestimates the long term potential.

51:28.14

Matt Watson

Absolutely all right? Well thanks everybody I hope this was very informational and look forward to all our other episodes we’re doing on nfts thank you Mario for coming by today. Thank you.

51:30.22

Mario Nawfal

So think about this for a while and I think you’ll understand what I’m trying to say.

51:40.66

Mario Nawfal

Cool man, Thanks a lot.

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