Ep. #1115 - Using Psychology to Sell More

Andrew Morgans 00:00
Hey, what’s up, Hustlers? Welcome back. This is Andrew Morgans, founder of Marknology, here as today’s host of Startup Hustle. We’re going to be talking about using psychology to sell more. Today’s episode of Startup Hustle is powered by FullScale.io. Hiring software developers is difficult. Full Scale can help you build a software team quickly and affordably and has the platform to help you manage that team. Visit FullScale.io to learn more. Like I said, today’s title is Using Psychology to Sell More. But we’re gonna be getting into the founder story, as always, as well as just talking about what CRO or conversion rate optimization really is. What it looks like, you know, how emotional content connects better with customers, and ultimately helps you sell more. Whether you’re on Amazon, you’re on a landing page, you’re on social media, getting engagement, whatever that looks like. Without further ado, Carl Weische, welcome to the show.

Carl Weische 00:53
Thanks so much for having me. I’m really excited to record a few today.

Andrew Morgans 00:57
Yeah, Carl is actually in Germany tonight. So I think it’s around 9:30 or 10 p.m. there this time. So thank you very much for staying up late to share some value with us today. He is a co-founder of a company called Accelerated; he works with brands, DTC brands, with AB testing, and ultimately helping them improve their customer, meaning their conversion rate. And so, you know, this is a really big thing, too. This is a really big thing when it comes down to you’re spending money on paid media. You’re spending money on Amazon ads. You’re spending money to get customers to your stores to see your stuff. You have to make the most of it. And that’s what, you know, conversion rate optimization really does. But before we jump into that, and really maybe, you know, the core of today’s episode, I’d love to get to know about you, Carl. I think the listeners really appreciate just understanding where the advice is coming from, right. And so, you know, is this something like, have you always been, you know, in e-commerce? Did you always know you’re gonna be an entrepreneur or a business owner or founder? I definitely was someone that never really expected myself to be a business owner or an entrepreneur. So it kind of hit me upside the head whenever I found e-commerce. But where’s your journey begin?

Carl Weische 02:23
It’s a bit similar to yours. So when I was around 1415 years, I didn’t really know where to take it. And like what I wanted from life. And I was going through a lot of, like, weird periods and good, and I didn’t really understand stuff. And I also didn’t really like school. So I was just like, in this weird phase for like two or three years almost. And then, I started watching a lot of YouTube videos about motivation, psychology, and stuff. And I went down the rabbit hole of Tony Robbins videos, right? I watched hours and hours of Tony Robbins videos, and I started reading his books and, like, genuine books about motivational psychology. And initially, I wanted to use that knowledge to motivate me, and kinda need to understand where I’m taking my life, right. So I wanted to have an impact on myself. And then, in the next step, I also have an impact on the relationships that I have with people. So, for example, I read books about how to make friends and influence people. Right. So I got super obsessed with the solid standing of how this thing up here works with the brain in mind. And I just went down the rabbit hole and picked up every book, went to seminars, did coaching and studies, and everything about psychology, just because I find it super fascinating how to apply that knowledge and how much of an impact it can have on your life. So that’s kind of how I got started with everything. And I think subconsciously, over time, we’re watching all of these big guys like Tony Robbins. In my mind, I made the connection between the liver, a happy, successful free life, and they are entrepreneurs. And somehow, this connection was big back then, when I was 1617, reading these books, and watching these videos that I felt like, I want to be an entrepreneur, I have to go down the road of being an entrepreneur, so I can live a free lifestyle where I decide to do whatever I want and what I like right. So that’s kind of where it started. And then I literally went on Google and typed How To Make Money Online, probably like everybody in the journey in the early days, just with a builder trying to understand how you can make money on the side. And what stuck with me was buying and reselling limited sneakers and clothes. So I started with buying Yeezys Jordans, supreme pillars, and all of that and then reselling it on eBay and those platforms later, so that’s how I got started with online marketing and e-commerce in some form. And then, over time, I also tried running Shopify. Bryan and I also did Amazon FBA in the beginning. So you resonated when you were talking about that. And that’s when I met my now co-founder for the agency. So back then, when I was running my brand and the Amazon FBA, he was a freelancer for conversion optimization. And we met through a mutual friend. And when I met him, it was like two of my words of passion, speculating, like online marketing, selling things online, and psychology, in both together as conversion optimization, because it may sound really complex are really technical, but all you do with conversion optimization is you understand user behavior, and then you influence user behavior. So you can get more people to buy, right? So it’s, like, a really, really deep basis, and human psychology, consumer behavior, and all of that, obviously, combined with the online marketing, direct response skill set. And for me, it was like, wow, like, this is the shit, this is so sick, this is so sexy. So that’s why I transitioned from running the brand to starting it, starting it as a service. And now, over the past, like, three years, we’ve learned to be like an agency where we now work with big eight-figure brands and a team of 40 people solely focused on optimizing websites, leading foreigners building landing pages, and running a lot of betas.

Andrew Morgans 06:30
No, that’s amazing. And thank you for sharing that. I definitely started finding that mindset and mental health positivity. I read that kind of literature. I found it a lot later in life when I was 16 or 17. So you’re a lucky man in that regard. I went through a crazy breakup around 25 that had me kind of just searching for, like, you know, help, and in that, I also found e-commerce. So my company’s name is Marknology. I think you’ll like this because, for me, e-commerce sits in the middle of marketing and technology, right? It’s like, you have to have a creative marketing mind, which the best marketers are learning about psychology and customer behavior and all that. But you also have to be technically savvy. You have to understand how to build and deploy a landing page, how to track attribution, you know, set up pixels, you know, all those things. So it’s this blend, really a boat, used to be able to be a marketer, and you didn’t need to use technology, right? You could go out with pieces of paper and hand them out or be delivered in the mail. He didn’t really have to use technology, but now e-commerce technology is definitely involved, you know, whether you’re using AI or whatever. And you briefly mentioned that, but you know, 40 employees that are in your brand being eight figures or larger, that’s, that’s pretty impressive. How long have you guys been working together to build the agency?

Carl Weische 07:55
So we started early 2021, COVID hit and we were basically just spending a lot of time on Zoom like we are right now, like talking and hanging out. And that’s when we had, like, the first spin-off of the idea to start working together and building it as a service. Because he and I work really, really well in terms of the execution, right. So he used to be like the brain telling me what to do. And I used to be the executioner. So the technology part, right, in terms of deploying all of that building the pages, and it just worked. So, so efficient, and we liked each other a lot. And that’s why we then decided to start building it into service and then all the time into an agency.

Andrew Morgans 08:36
Is your team mainly there in Germany, or are you guys across the world? Like, you know, where’s your team base?

Carl Weische 08:43
Um, we have a couple of people in Germany. But funnily enough, the majority of people in Eastern Europe. So we have an office, and we’re Garyun, which is like an office for developers. So we have around 10 developers working there right now. And then we also have a lot of people in Ukraine. So when we talk off camera, we are already thinking about that because you mentioned the other podcast you did with the Ukrainian guy. And we have a lot of people in Ukraine, especially data analysts, and we sort of like technical professionals. And it’s so so inspiring to see their work and those circumstances because we have this like Monday team meeting, which is like a gratitude meeting to kind of set the tone for the week and viticulture and connect everybody. And everybody’s supposed to talk about things like, what they liked about last week, what they’re excited about this week, what they’re thankful for, what they’re grateful for today, just to really focus on that and bring positivity and the spirit. And, like, they sit there, and they say they’re thankful that they still have the whole body and the family is healthy and everything, and it just really humbles you and brings you down to earth. And for me, I’m always sitting there. And I’m always like, so fascinated by these guys being like, so driven and so hardworking, or why being so happy and thankful for, like, what they’re doing is it’s just mind-blowing.

Andrew Morgans 10:15
The reminder, isn’t it, like, I’m around quite a few wealthy people when I go to these Amazon conferences or events, and, you know, I have some very successful friends. And it’s always, like, I try to make a note of it now, like, you know, why I’m on my journey. Like, you know, the things that they talk about, they’re there for the community, most of the time, they’re there to just give back their, their, their very humble, you know, and they find gratitude and happiness and joy, the simple things. And for me, it’s just a reminder, like, I don’t need to get there to figure out those things. I can learn all those things now on my way, you know, or you see someone that is very wealthy or successful in that regard, that’s unhappy. And you’re like, why do you have all of these things? I know, people in the world that are like, you know, working hard just to get clean water, and then they still find ways to be grateful. So it’s just, I think it’s such an amazing thing in e-commerce to be able to have teams that are international and come from all different parts of the world to kind of just really make awesome teams. Where’s so obviously, with conversion rate optimization, like graphic design, and building out landing pages and things like that? Where are your designers, and where are your designers from?

Carl Weische 11:33
We have some designers from Ukraine, we have one designer sitting in Bali, and we have designers in Portugal.

Andrew Morgans 11:41
Cool. I love it. I just like hearing where, you know, the culture is breed to kind of different specialties, you know, and I’ve often heard of Eastern Europe, for programmers, developers, you know, PPC advertising data analysts, like very master than, yeah, very mastered and practical, pragmatic, you know. So that’s really awesome. And I also had a lot of friends that their teams were built out in the Ukraine, and they really struggled. You know, not everybody, you know, some of those teams broke up. And so it’s, you know, it’s awesome to hear that you guys, there’s your guys and girls are still doing so great. Okay, awesome. I just like getting into the nitty gritty of what a team looks like, and you know, you talk to someone in Germany, and I think the assumption can be like, well, your team’s in Germany. And that’s not the case at all, like, right, my team is in Latin America, I’m in India, Pakistan, you know, my teams all over the world. So while we’re based here in the Midwest, maybe 1012 of us here, you know, the rest are around the globe. Talk to me about, like, let’s get into some of the nitty gritty of like, you know, conversion rate optimization, and like what that looks like. So let’s just say let’s set a practical or hypothetical situation, you know, you’ve got a, you’ve got a brand that comes to you. Right now you guys are dealing with probably eight figure brands that whenever you make changes, the changes are a lot more drastic, or they can afford your services, or you see the impact much quicker. Well, let’s let’s let’s simplify it a little bit just for the sake of this conversation, and you’re coming across the brand with a single SKU, you know, they’re not getting the conversion rates that they want, or they’re not getting, you know, the ROI is not there on paid media. And one thing I do know on Amazon is that a lot of times, they will be focused on paid media PPC, or advertising dollars. But the work really needs to be done on the product page, or on the listing photos or things like that. Talk to me about where you kind of start with your thinking when evaluating a new brand.

Carl Weische 13:47
So I always like to start understanding their current situation. So for Amazon, that’s going to be different from an online store, right? So Amazon, it’s really simple, if you look at the way that Amazon works right, either way, you have a high ranking right. So you get organic traffic or you push PPC traffic. So, Amazon is rather like pull marketing because they are already having the buying intent and a small board comparing the different products and now they have to decide based on the value proposition price reviews and like the different products next to each about which one to buy. So on Amazon, the biggest impact is like this mixture of the price reviews and the biggest impact is going to be the product images right? Because they are up there and then later on obviously the a plus or like EBC content that you have done on the page, but the biggest one is going to be the product images. And this is like a huge differentiator if you are following a smart structure. Now like more and more people are investing more money into getting good. Like were thought through Product images. But still, like a lot of people are leaving money on the table somebody because they push on the traffic or like they, they pay for the clicks, but then they are not converting them, right. And if you’re thinking about the way that the business works, you can either cut down your acquisition costs by optimizing your PPC campaigns, where you can increase your conversion rate. So basically increase how much you make per click right. And for Amazon, it’s, I would say, it’s almost simple, you have to think of the images as a sales funnel that you take your customers through, right? On the website, you obviously have way more room to play with. And for example, I have a landing page and the product page and the homepage and everything on Amazon, it really comes down to the product images, so we got to think of the product images as a sales funnel, you have the what is it called, like the first image with the white background, right that everybody has. And then afterwards to say, it’s fun to start with the first picture, similar to the first touchpoint on the website should be the main value proposition of the product, right? So you want to have a high quality shot of the product of the main value proposition. So the main value of gifts to the customer when they buy. So that’s always going to be the first touch point, whether it’s on the product image on Amazon, or whether that’s on the hero section on the landing page for your direct to consumer brand. That’s always the most important thing and aspect that you have to get across to be a proposition, right? So your target audience needs to understand what’s in it for me, like why should I be? Number one.

Andrew Morgans 16:41
So what you’re saying, just for clarity for anyone listening, is the first thing that you’re hitting is not necessarily the problem that you’re solving.

Carl Weische 16:54
But instead of leading with value, the value proposition can be that you’re solving a huge problem for them. So the value proposition can either way be really solution focused and benefit focus, or it’s really problem solving focused, right? So a value proposition is if the main value of your product is solving a problem, then that should be included in a value proposition. If the main value of your product is more emotional, like jewelry or fashion, or skincare or makeup or something like that, then it’s more about the emotion or the benefit of the product, right? Like you look good, you feel good and stuff. If it’s a problem solving product, something like acne, timber set or something, then some about getting rid of that bad skin, right? That’s how you got to think about the value proposition. So that always has to be the first touch point to get that across, like, what does the product do for the customer, when they get it?

Andrew Morgans 17:54
Boom, right center, like right at the top of the page here.

Carl Weische 17:57
So either way, first image or right at the top of the page, then you kind of want to go on to the product itself, right? So you always want to talk about the product features, and then the product benefits. You know this, when you run a lot of listings, that you always want to think about, like with each feature that my product has, what is the benefit for the customer? And how can I combine it with the keywords that resonate with my customer that they are looking for on Amazon, right? So everything that I’m talking about, by the way, should be based on the data from your target audience. So you want to before like, I’m just like trying to come up with a design or landing page or something you want to go on to the research period of your target audience and the market and the people you’re selling to. Because otherwise you’re not really knowing which pain point to hit, or what problem the product is solving and how to write the value proposition, right. So that always has to come before that.

Andrew Morgans 18:58
Okay, so on Amazon, you know, things that come to mind would be a software called PickFu or product pinion or maybe I’m scraping reviews of competitors to see what customers are saying like product pinion and PickFu are two sites where you can upload your images and kind of create these A B tests these tests from customers to say, Do you like this one? Or do you like this one? Do you like this one? Do you like this one? You know, is it clear what I’m selling? Is it unclear what I’m selling? You can just know you can test and you can really try a lot of things. What would be the equivalent of that kind of research on the DTC site?

Carl Weische 19:32
It’s pretty similar. So you want to do what I like to call message mining right? So you want to go through customer reviews customer testimonials, and for details see, that can be found either way on the page with the reviews, but that can also be other point of contacts and your customers have a few like Instagram DMS emails to your customer support any tickets, comments under your ads on social media right You can go on stuff like Reddit or CRO or even if you have a DTC brand on Amazon and find your competitor products. And what I like to do is scrape, for example, 10 to 20,000, reviews or pieces of text, right? And then put them in a huge spreadsheet and analyze for what are the most common pain points? Or what are the most common stories data? Or what are the most common aspects that made them buy the product, all right. And then it’s really easy to figure out the value proposition, then it’s really easy to resonate with your customers with your copywriting. Because you’re giving them exactly how they would describe it. Right. So that’s kind of how I like to go about it. So we did this, for example, for a brand called pillow slides. And they said, these slides that are really comfortable, right to like wear at home and kind of chill out and, and going through the reviews, I found that a lot of people are saying happy, a lot of people are saying comfortable. Some people are saying pain relief. And then a lot of people were saying they feel like walking on the cloud. Like so many people were saying that, and now, I would never have come up with the idea to make that analogy. But like all of the customers were already using that. So it just worked perfectly. And now we’re using it as the main value proposition on the homepage. So customers instantly understand the main proposition. Because like saying this, it gets all of the benefits across, right? Because you instantly have this situation in your head where you walk on like really?

Andrew Morgans 21:40
Thinking weightless, you know? I’m so question for you. So that seems pretty straightforward if the brain has already been in existence, or if the brand has already been, you know, like running ads, has social media doing that? What about a product that, you know, you’re creating the landing page or creating the website for a launch? And so, you know, I know there’s some research you can do ahead of time. But are you suggesting that maybe you’re running ads, and you’re running certain things like that just to get feedback? And just to get, you know, customers’ opinions? Or how would you go about, I guess, launching with a landing page, as a starting point before you have a lot of feedback and data. Is that? Is that something? Is that a difficulty? And that’s why you guys don’t work with smaller brands? A lot of times, it’s because there’s still a lot of heavy lifting to do there. In this scenario, what would you suggest? What I would suggest it’s pretty similar to running a vine on Amazon, right?

Carl Weische 22:31
So you want to get like a first batch of products to people who can test a product and give you the feedback. So either way you want to invest in that yourself. And for example, acquire some customers or find some product testers, or what you want to do is you want to find real direct competitors who are selling the exact same product on Amazon or online. And nowadays, it’s going to be pretty easy to find someone who’s doing that, because there’s so so many brands and so many products on Amazon. So then you can also go through their reviews, or what you can do is try to find an online forum or like on Reddit, go on Kroger or something like that, and try to find the community that’s talking about that product, right? So there’s a community for everything for makeup, skincare, laptops, iPads, iPhones, technology, right everything like there, you will find a community or like a forum for that, that you can kind of dig into. And it doesn’t necessarily only have to be reviews from your customer for your product, it can also be more general trying to understand the psychology behind them, right, apply somewhere in general, exactly understand the psychology of your target audience that you’re selling to.

Andrew Morgans 23:51
I love it. I think when I was early in the Amazon space, a lot of the emotion that I was having to battle in order to sell was fear. Fear driven. A lot of people are scared of Amazon, scared of it taking over their distribution, scared of it killing their margins, scared of Amazon copying their products, scared of Amazon keeping their data just like fear, fear, fear, fear, fear. And so understanding that my response to that was to build a trustworthy agency that put out just tons of value building trust. Why? Because people are afraid to build trust that they’ll take that leap with you. You know, just as an example. It was not necessarily a product, but definitely the feedback that I would get as I pitched and pitched and pitched and pitched, which you do in person versus like a Facebook ad or something like that. But you’re pitching you’re getting feedback, you’re getting pushback, you’re getting nose, what are those nose telling, you know, what are they? What are people’s reasons for saying no? Or saying yes, because the nose can help you create the yeses and you know, the yeses can help you create more yeses. Yeah. But okay, so we’re on a we’re, you know, we’re about Are you winning both in Amazon and DDC? But you’ve got, I think one thing that I noticed a lot of when the brands are not at that eight figure level is that they often have a website, you know, with, let’s say, let’s say it’s got 50 skews or something like that. Nothing crazy. And a lot of times, I see the absence of a landing page. Talk to me about the difference, from your perspective, make it as simple as you can: the difference between a product page and a landing page, why do you need both? And some of the different things that a website brings to the table than let’s say, an Amazon page is not, and why these can be used within a website.

Carl Weische 25:38
Great question. So a product page usually is pretty straightforward, right? It’s only focused on selling the product. And basically, it’s always the product images on the top left, and on the top right, you will find the product price, some form of description and the Buy Now button. And then sometimes, depending on the store, they have certain sections similar to EBC content beneath there, where they talk about product benefits, or they have an extended product section. And then below that, they usually show our other recommended products to try to increase the average. Alright, so that’s a product page, pretty basic, pretty straightforward, pretty focused on selling, with landing pages. And the main benefit of using landing pages is that you can tell a story, right? It’s not directly focused on selling, it’s more about really grabbing the attention of the prospect and kind of sucking them into the funnel, right. So think about it as selling offline. A product page is like walking up to somebody and telling them, hey, buy my product. And then pages like, oh, what’s your name? Or Nice to meet you, Andrew, what you like, what you don’t like, Oh, you have this pain point, hey, I have the perfect product for you. Maybe you want to buy it here like 100 Happy customers who bought it and hear their stories on here’s an FAQ and everything. And I’m gonna answer all your questions. If you want, you can say yes. And then I’m Alicia to the cashier. Right? So landing page, the small ball kind of trading a customer journey, and taking somebody from being a cold prospect to a hot lead that’s ready to buy, right? That’s the main idea of the learning patient. That’s why it’s so valuable. Because if you think about the customer journey, a lot of brands just have like regular creatives, I would call them and then they push it straight to a product page. And then they wonder why the prospect doesn’t buy. Yeah, because it was low or medium quality traffic, and they weren’t necessarily hot leads, right. And then you just push them to a product page and show them this is a $50 product buy, right? What you should do is think more about a customer journey that your prospect can follow. So you show them an interesting creative that’s really well produced, then you push them to a landing page with the main value proposition slowly opening up the product, talking about social proof showing testimonials showing UGC content, maybe having an objection handling section like FAQ, or like a comparison table, or section that selling the biggest objections or fears or pain points. And you take them through the whole story. And at the end of the landing page, they’re ready to buy, right? They don’t have a single question, objection or anxiety in their mind anymore, that’s going to keep them from buying a saw. That’s the beauty of using landing pages.

Andrew Morgans 28:39
I love it. Thank you, that was a beautiful explanation. And I think something that’s overlooked. You know, if you’re an influencer, and people are gonna buy whatever you post, maybe you send them straight to the product page, because they’ve already determined that they like you, they trust you, they want to buy what you like, you know, it’s good enough to get the job done. If you are bringing in a cold or immediate you know, lukewarm maybe someone that just saw your brand for the first time on Facebook or something like that, then you have to do almost as if you were convincing them in person, let me tell you why this has said is the best headset that I’ve used in you know, a long time it like has a charging station built in and lasts for hours. Look at all these other people that are using it. It’s like, you know, look at it compared to Sony and compare it to Beats by Dre and and you know, air pods and you’re like, oh, so look at beats and all these features and look like it has a warranty that lasts for five years. So if anything happens, like the money you’re paying for it, you’re gonna get it and yada yada yada and you’re just you’re, you know, you’re essentially not just throwing out information but as if you were convincing someone in person. Why this product is amazing. If they’re gonna say, Well, why should I buy that drawer, you’re gonna be like, you’re gonna give them a word of mouth explanation on why you should buy it right. And that’s what a product page is not doing well. Right. So what are some? Actually, Um, before I go into the next question, I want to give a shout out to our sponsor that makes these whole episodes possible. FullScale.io Finding expert software developers doesn’t have to be difficult, especially when you visit FullScale.io. We can build a software team quickly and affordably use the Full Scale platform to define your technical needs, and then see what available developers, testers, and leaders are ready to join your team at FullScale.io to learn more. So okay, Carl, question around. Whenever you’re looking at Brands, they’ve come to you and they’re saying, Carl, I think we can do B, we can be doing better on our conversion rate. But they don’t know where exactly to start. They’re not telling you. This this this? What are some things that you commonly see, you know, that brands or people doing it in house are, are messing up? What are some common mistakes or common things to look for that most brands are just not paying enough attention to?

Carl Weische 30:55
Yeah, I think most of the brands are missing the aspect of building trust, right? You were just talking about this too. Like if you want to sell somebody in person, you have to establish a connection, and you have to build trust before asking them for the sale. And same with trying to sell online, you want to show happy customers, you want to show revenues, you want to show press releases of your brands, you want to show authority to people like a doctor or like an influence vouching for your product. You maybe want to show our magazine releases, or like TV releases or something like that, right? So you want to have all of these elements that are giving the prospect trust that they can buy from you. And a lot of brands are really missing out on that, even if it’s really simple to integrate on the website, right? It’s easy to show pictures of happy customers, or to take some user generated content pieces and put them on your product page. Find out like all of the press releases, all of the magazine releases or TV shows that you have of the product and put them on the page. Or finding something like an influence on authority personally pays them to vouch for your product, and then you take their name and their picture and put it on the page. Right. So this is often overlooked for DTC brands, and really easy to fix. Secondly, would be user testing. And you talked about this earlier to ask people if they would rather like an OB, you can pay companies to push like 100 people or 200 people through your website with certain objectives like buy this t-shirt or buy this pair of shoes and this size. And they will go through your website. And they will tell you where they have questions. And they will also tell you points of friction in the customer journey. Something like on the homepage, they clicked on the menu and then they didn’t know where to find the black shoes, right? Because you only have them listed on sneakers somewhere hidden on the product page. They wanted to click on the Buy Now button. But then there was a pop up overlaying that. And that was annoying, right? So you want to look somebody else over the shoulder like a friend or family member going through your store. And then you will see where they are struggling or when they have friction in the customer journey, right? So this is a huge thing, especially nowadays, in the attention economy that we’re living in, people page takes too long to load off, there’s something that’s annoying, or if there’s any friction, like in the process, they would just jump off and not come back. Right. So it’s so important to make it as easy as possible to buy like a super simple customer journey that they can follow. So those two like building trust, and then super simple customer journeys are going to be big ones.

Andrew Morgans 33:54
I love it. I think those that have fantastic feedback in something that you’re right. Like we don’t think about it enough on the DDC side. I think on the services side, we think trust, trust, trust, because you’re working with people. But it matters on the product side, too. You know, whether it says Made in USA or it says, you know, eco friendly or it says like women don’t do business or it says, As Seen on TV or on the Forbes top 100 or something like that these things build trust. Because you see that something else is vouch for it or that they have some level of connection, there’s an emotional connection with whoever they’re selling to. I also think something to notice, at least that I’ve noticed on the Amazon side is like if I’m selling on Amazon Germany versus I’m selling on Amazon.com the content differs quite a bit. I think in general like Germans want to be sold facts and details and get straight to the point and be like logical about what you’re selling and just be straightforward and American customers of the West at least once like that emotional feel made me feel good to sell to me I want to buy from someone I feel good, you know, and so it’s more than Flowers and colorful words and all that kind of stuff instead of direct direct bullet points, but it makes a difference. It makes a big difference. Kind of like, like don’t waste my time just I don’t trust you to show me exactly what’s up with the product, you know, kind of thing. So knowing just as a silly example, but like knowing what market you’re selling in matters as well, when it comes to localization and things like that. But the trust factor being a really big one, I think that was fantastic. Okay, so something else I think about is like, you know, a lot of times, everyone’s obsessed or like the best ROI is retargeting, right? So Facebook and Instagram. That was one of the big things that happened with the iOS update was, it wasn’t as easy to track customers to be able to retarget them. And that was what made ads so successful. Well, there’s two ways to think about that, right? Because you can think about not having the ability to retarget. But what that’s doing is saying, Hey, I didn’t sell that, well, the first time, I’m hoping by the second, third, fourth, fifth time of retargeting them I can convince them to buy, because you’re getting that many more times to get in front of them. And I understand that. But what if you did a better job on the front end of converting them when you got there the first time either because you had a great landing page, or you were just so much better at the content. So a lot of times I see that people that are not that great at content, or conversion rate optimization, tend to believe in these other tactics to find their success, maybe better PPC, maybe better targeting better strategies around ads. when really they go hand in hand, you know, and improve. You can prove one or the other. For me, I like just really, really, really focusing on conversion rate. Because once you’ve got that investment dialed in, it’s not something that you have to continue to pay for over and over and over in like, like paid media, you know, so something interesting, just as just as a fun fact, we’re actually working on your water there. Now we’re working on the brand, and Pellegrino. So that’s a fun one we’re working on right now as a team to rebrand on Amazon.

Carl Weische 37:05
I’m actually going out. I drink it every single day while you’re supporting me, so I appreciate it.

Andrew Morgans 37:09
Appreciate that. Awesome. Well, as we were rounding out like this has been honestly very helpful and even answered some things for me. I like to end the show with a couple of questions like one: what is something that you guys are working on that you’re excited about? Like you’re just like something new, you guys are moving into something you’re having a lot of fun you’re excited about? And then something for you personally, as Carl. You know, what you’re working on, what you’re excited about this year outside of the business, you know, to drive yourself forward?

Carl Weische 37:41
Yeah, we like to ask questions. The business question I’m currently working on is working together with Kino body. He’s a big fitness influencer. And we have been creating completely new offers to run for cold traffic, right? So that was super interesting, because he has a wide range of products. So he has supplements, he has clothing, he has info products and video coaching, low ticket high ticket, he has one on one coaching and all of these different products. So what I did based on the current narrative and social media is create the challenge based on supplements that are focused on like increasing testosterone, increasing mood, blood flow, and everything. And combining that with a video coaching like nutrition guide, diet guide, and also training guide, and kind of setting it all together and the crazy bundle with a 30 day challenge and the community in the back end. So that was super interesting, super exciting to kind of think about a great way of selling these supplements different from everybody else. So why because it covers 10 Out of the mark of the market, right? So we use this narrative of like, be a high value man testosterone golf fighting to become the best version. And that created this 30 Day Challenge where you master your testosterone and you get into a better shape and everything so they will use the product, right?

Andrew Morgans 39:11
How do you guys use the products? I think what’s really exciting about that, from a business standpoint, is the AO V and the cost of goods, right? So once that course is the coaching program is made, you know in a time where margin is just getting trunk, trunk, trunk trunk, it’s a way to go out there and find you know, increase rate will be so hopefully we don’t share these ideas with too many people because I think that’s absolutely absolutely brilliant. And something I was just talking about with a friend. They sell, they sell like dinnerware and it was coming with certain things like cooking, dirt mixology, those types of courses to go along with it. Whenever they buy that particular package. I don’t want to put them on blast in case they don’t want me to share that, but I think that’s super, super cool. And then you And then follow up to that you know, something you’re working on personally.

Carl Weische 40:03
Personally, I want to spend way more time on making music. So I did that a lot before I did the business. And then I kind of just focus on the business. And now I’m getting more into the creative side. So I’ve been producing hip hop, r&b and trap beats for ages. And now I’m just like, way more like allocating more time into that. And, yeah, I just really enjoy that I want to focus more on that personally. Because I really like being in this kind of creative state where you take something and like, you bid something, and at the end, you have something like that you really vibing with, you know what I mean?

Andrew Morgans 40:45
Like, right, it’s right, it’s in alignment. Yeah. And so I personally, something similar between us. I toured for almost five years before I got into e-commerce. I was touring full-time. It was a hard life, you know, you’re not making a lot of money. Spotify wasn’t out. So you really were like touring, you know, to get seen and get visibility. But it was such a big source of my inspiration, a big source of my creativity. It just didn’t pay me, right? I was just tired of being broke. And I mean, it’s paying me but not enough to have a family or take a girl on a date or anything like this, you know. So it was like everything went back into my music. And I got away from that for maybe 10 years into EECOM just building the business. But since the pandemic, I’ve just been on a mad craze of just touring the world chasing music, you know, as I’ve been. I went to Berlin to see Boris Brecha in August Burns Red with two of my favorite artists. And I’ve been doing that because when I’m there, I disconnect from work. I think artists lead the way in regard to trying new things. And being innovative and from fashion to the things they’re doing with music and technology, has always led the way similar to video games, I guess, in a lot of ways. They really lead the industry in certain things for innovating. So I think that’s beautiful. I challenge you to think about how you could work alongside artists now that you understand branding and product development, and product creation. And I think of myself, I’m an artist. I’m an athlete, too. I can play sports, I can play music. But I think of myself more as a producer or like a coach on a team. I curate the right things, I know the right vibe, bring the right people together, you know, deliver it in a way that’s an experience and really cool. And so I’m on a challenge to, you know, find the right artists and then take what I know three COMM And influencer marketing and things like that, and really, really explode something. So there are new creative ways, I think that we can stay involved with music, you know, whether that’s producing it yourself, or just getting involved behind somebody else and be like, let me show you how to really do this. Because a lot of times, people that are full artists just have a really hard time understanding business. They have a hard time understanding and monetizing themselves and the value of their time. Because they’re not paid for their time. They’re paid when they have delivered products, right? So the artists can spend hundreds of hours on an album, right? And it’s no different than someone spending 20 hours on an album if they finish it. So just some fun stuff. And I love it. I like you’re in Germany. So I’m like, Yeah, I’m probably the best or the best DJ. I’m a little biased. No, but that’s really cool. And I’d love to stay connected. If you have some projects, you’ll have to send them my way. So I can stay connected. And then, lastly, as we sign off, where can people find you and get connected with you if they’d like to reach out or learn more about your services?

Carl Weische 43:37
The best is going to be Twitter. So I’m most active on Twitter. Just call my show Samus my name. And I’m also replying to DMS, then a bad code outreach.

Andrew Morgans 43:50
Awesome. And I’ll have any of his likes show any of his handles or company information in the show notes. So anyone driving in their car, whatever, can look up Carl and get in contact with him. If you guys have a DTC site or a brand that is doing well, it just needs to be doing better. I’m sure he’d love to hear from you. So Carl, thank you so much for being on the show. We really appreciate the value brought to the Startup Hustle community here today, and thanks for staying up late as well.

Carl Weische 44:18
Thanks so much for having me. Brian was really nice. You’re welcome.

Andrew Morgans 44:21
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