Ep. #817 - What Are You Waiting For?

00:00.00

Matt DeCoursey

And we’re back! Back for another episode of startup Hustle Matt DeCoursey is here to have another conversation that I’m hoping helps your business grow, right? So so many people in life sit around and say I’m waiting for the right time the right time never comes, people. It’s a pretty well-known fact amongst people that. Know that fact because they don’t sit around and wait for stuff and we’re going to talk about what you are waiting for today, and that’s a really broad topic. So you’re probably wondering where we’re going so stick around we’ll talk all about it and then you two will know now before we get too far into this. A quick reminder that today’s episode of Startup Hustle is brought to you by fullscale io helping you build a software team quickly and affordably That’s my company, people if you regularly listen, you already know that go to full scale.io go to the get started page fill out a couple of questions. We’ll get back to you and let you know. If we can help you solve your problems when it comes to building a team of developers and with me today, we’re excited because I’ve got another amazing company from our top New Orleans startup list in 2022 today, I’ve got Shelby Sanderford she is the founder and Ceo of DOCPACE. Straight out of New Orleans, or do they say New Orleans I’m not I haven’t got that right yet. But I’m trying, but New Orleans, Louisiana. Shelby, welcome to start apostle there we go, oh there we go? well.

01:19.23

Shelby Sanderford

Know Nall and za yes, ah Matt thank you so much for having me here today I’m excited about this conversation.

01:34.16

Matt DeCoursey

I am tuned, you know, one thing I forgot is if you want to learn more about Shelby’s company, you can go to DOCPACE. It’s docpacedotcom. You know it’s even easier just scroll down to the show notes and click the link now. Yeah, I like to start my conversations with a little bit. You know every good story has a backstory. So Shelby, what’s your backstory?

01:56.70

Shelby Sanderford

And I would just love to tell you that So this all started actually when I was working in the hospital administrative setting and being exposed to a lot of the internal pain points. Hospitals Doctors administration patients face on a day-to-day basis when trying to receive the care that they need, and that’s this pain point of having a stellar experience and ultimately so high patient satisfaction scores and after you. Hearing some of the challenges and pain points that all of these players kind of face, I became quite frustrated that there wasn’t an easier answer and solution that existed out there in the Market. Um, and ultimately became very determined to eliminate wait time. Ah, doctor’s appointments and ultimately eliminate the need for waiting rooms. So That’s what we’re doing over here at Dock pace.

02:58.54

Matt DeCoursey

Well, it’s no real secret that maybe the entire planet is often frustrated with the user experience associated with medical visits doctors and. Yeah, I kind of get I get a view of both sides of it because my sister and I’ve only got one sibling, so we know each other pretty well, and her husband they’re both doctors, and you know, like, and now here’s the thing doctors are frustrated with it too. It’s not always the doctor. That’s like, you know what? maybe if I just made Shelby wait a little longer in the waiting room. She would be happier with your visit and said no doctor you know now you know on the flip side of that. It’s you know, and I would imagine these last couple of years have been even more trying because you’ve got an overload and a lot of different stuff. So I mean, when it comes to like solving a problem this big. Where do you start?

03:47.42

Shelby Sanderford

Yeah, you’ve just brought up a great point and you know doctors certainly do feel that frustration quite a bit because oftentimes it’s the perception of management that. Ah, well, the doctor is taking so long, and they’re the ones creating this problem and the reason why patients end up waiting in the waiting room. But what we’ve been able to discover at dock pace through analyzing, you know, millions and millions of data points is that actually, the root cause of what’s happening here is. The way that scheduling is done in healthcare is just not designed properly for appointment cycles. So as a patient, you know when you go to a doctor’s appointment. You really go through a journey to see your healthcare provider whether that’s from the time you check in and have to do paperwork and payment and insurance. This intake phase is where you have to meet with a nurse and complete maybe some pre-tests this all has to be done before you can see the provider. Well, our traditional scheduling model that’s used in healthcare. Is? what’s creating these inefficiencies and misalignment for all of these events to happen so that the patient is ready on time for the provider? So what we found is actually what’s happening is even though patients spend 15000000000 minutes waiting in a waiting room each year. Doctors lose 10 to 20% of their potential patient time, so they actually could be with a patient if all of these inefficiencies were sorted out.

05:18.14

Matt DeCoursey

You know it’s funny because I started the episode with the what are you waiting for and like kind of and and and as you know I’d like to make fun of myself along the way because I had a different context because my.

05:26.41

Shelby Sanderford

Ah.

05:33.40

Matt DeCoursey

The production Team’s clever with the title. So what are you waiting for? you are waiting for the right time so people and that’s like a myth that people are waiting for the right time to start a business and go back to school to get a different job. But in this case, you’re waiting for a different reason.

05:34.78

Shelby Sanderford

I.

05:49.93

Matt DeCoursey

Now I have some expertise in this in this in this area because you mentioned scheduling and this scheduling model, and I’m the founder of gig book and you know this is online scheduling software, and what we built was a fully customizable platform like we built it for the people that don’t have an industry-specific platform like.

06:07.15

Shelby Sanderford

Nothing.

06:09.74

Matt DeCoursey

Now with that you know for those of you listening that people look at like making an appointment or putting something on and off a calendar as this really straightforward thing like oh it should be so easy ten o’clock and you put it on the calendar that part is not hard. It’s the 10000000 things that can could and should or might need to occur in association with that like you look at anyone whether it’s a doctor so you have notifications reminders documentation collection of info and data payments invoices. Follow-up surveys like I mean it goes on and on and on now you know as someone that builds software the more it just because you stack another layer of technology on something doesn’t mean it just got a little bit harder. It becomes very exponential. So like 8 levels deep of complexity is not just 8 times harder. It’s like 64 times harder and so have patience as a patient in some regards because the technology is growing and I love what I’m seeing you know I’ve done a couple episodes on this with the. You know, just like the things that kind of make things faster. Everything from doctors notes or or any of that now you know docpase has a predictive data-driven tool that allows health practitioners to run a high volume practice and deliver value and care and you know focuses on scheduling efficiency and then you know now. That’s ah, a short statement with a big task and you know so I’m curious like what are some of the things as you’ve built this that have been the bigger challenges or maybe that kind of like I mentioned with the calendar. It’s like seems simple and you’re like oh wow, this is a lot more than I thought.

07:52.76

Shelby Sanderford

Yeah, and that’s you know when I first started this. It’s honestly what I was thinking because it’s like it seems like such a simple problem to solve right? Like so many people sit there in a doctor’s office and they’re like why am I waiting here like what what is the problem here.

07:55.63

Matt DeCoursey

Ah.

08:06.26

Matt DeCoursey

Right? Why am I fill these forms again is a big one too right? yeah.

08:10.86

Shelby Sanderford

Um, but then when you feel right exactly and then you really dig into it and it’s like Wow this is a very complex problem. That’s very dynamic and there’s a lot of different things that have to line up and happen in order for a patient. And a doctor to end up in an exam room together at the same Time. So What Doc pace is doing in the background is using the existing schedule information and then applying artificial intelligence and automation in order to pace those appointment cycles So that. Providers can see more patients and the patients don’t have to wait. So Actually you know ends up being really a win win for everyone in this situation.

08:54.81

Matt DeCoursey

So as you go to approach this and like you know there’s traditional approaches to solving problems which clearly haven’t worked in this case or we wouldn’t be in 2022 with the same problem that. People complained about and different stuff. So what did you? What? like? What’s the was this is kind of a straightforward approach and yeah, okay, we need to just make things better faster cheaper like make the assembly line run a little smoother. Did you have to take a disruptive approach and be like you know what we’re going to just break this whole thing. So we’re forced to rebuild it.

09:31.94

Shelby Sanderford

It’s definitely been an iterative process and you know our actual solution in the way that we deliver it has evolved over the course of gosh the past seven years since I I did start this? Um, and I think that’s like 1 of the really important. Mindsets in my opinion of the entrepreneur trying to take on a problem like this is being open minded about what the solution does look like so you know through this process. We’ve learned a ton from all of the different players and people involved and. You know how a solution like this would fit seamlessly into their day because I think that’s the other really important thing to note here especially in healthcare is it has to be so easy and seamless and honestly kind of not disruptive so that you can have that adoption and just work it into your. Workflow and the process throughout the day. So at the same time that it is very disruptive. It also is not at the same time because a lot of it is so automated and just kind of happening in the background. Um.

10:39.59

Matt DeCoursey

All right? So I think reasonable question here you’re you’re an Mba not a doctor. What made you want to solve medical solutions.

10:52.61

Shelby Sanderford

That’s a great Question. So I Definitely ah, always thought I wanted to be a doctor that was like if you asked me when I was younger what I wanted to be when I grow up I would have definitely told you a doctor and then that became a Pa while I was in undergrad. And so that was my path.. That’s what I was what I was on the course to become Yes yes physicians assistant exactly um and just through some of my coursework work I landed in a ah ah healthcare administration class and learned more about you know the regulatory and business side of.

11:09.71

Matt DeCoursey

Is is that Physicians assistant is that Pi Okay, okay, okay, okay.

11:28.21

Shelby Sanderford

Health care and that’s really what kind of shifted my whole ah trajectory there and really got me interested in trying to solve some of these deeper root causes that are happening in our healthcare system today.

11:41.95

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, so sometimes ah the best solutions are found by people that aren’t staring them in the face. You know all the time every day because it takes a you know fresh set of eyes and it does it does present some other challenges at the same time because.

11:47.34

Shelby Sanderford

And.

11:59.68

Matt DeCoursey

Theoretically, you know people experiencing the problem often have the best input So as you’ve built ah a team and you know and you’ve grown the company a little bit where where have you complimented your. Ah, lack of exposure or experience or maybe even just some of the things you’re not good at to you know where have you brought in and brought in other people or kind of short up the you know the the spots of or maybe even’s just stuff you didn’t want to do.

12:23.77

Shelby Sanderford

And. I Think that’s one of the really beautiful things about this experience and trying to start something from nothing is that really that almost like naive andexperienced.

12:42.77

Matt DeCoursey

3

12:45.41

Shelby Sanderford

Ah, headspace is what I believe kind of drives you to be able to do it because I often reflect back and I’m like wow if I really knew like what I was getting myself into seven eight years ago like you know, maybe you would think differently about it. Um.

13:00.50

Matt DeCoursey

Famous last words from founders in many days right.

13:03.23

Shelby Sanderford

But yeah, but you just get so like for me I was just so passionate about finding the solution to this problem because I realized how big of a pain point ah is for so many people and. Also just so curious of why it doesn’t exist. Why isn’t there something. Why hasn’t someone else figured this out so far and I think when you combine that with persistence you just you know you just keep going and going until you can ultimately make it work and and figure it out Now. You know that’s the mindset of the. Leader and driving the team and and the force but I certainly have to surround myself with all the people who fill in the the space that are my weaknesses and the things that I don’t know and don’t have the expertise in and so um I have spent a lot of time to surround myself with the right. People and bring the right people onto our team that I believe will you know, get us to the place we’re trying to go.

14:01.10

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, that’s ah, was this your first business just this is the first time first lap as an entrepreneur or founder.

14:09.47

Shelby Sanderford

A little bit so I started a nonprofit when I was in high school um and hosted a big fundraiser. But yes, this first for profit business.

14:19.66

Matt DeCoursey

What what’s something that you know we we enjoy we the the mission statement of startup hustle 4 years and 800 episodes later has been to tell the real story of entrepreneurship and I’m just a yeah I’m always on my side. Turned 47 this year. So I’m kind of like transitioning into like semi angry old man or something like you know you, you might find me this summer shaking my fist on the lawn at entrepreneurship or something you know, get off my lawn entrepreneurship I feel that some days and.

14:47.40

Shelby Sanderford

Um.

14:52.87

Matt DeCoursey

But they were making fun of me the other day because I so I was talking about buying ah a chain wanting to buy a chain to hang my glasses around my neck. So the struggle is real but you know there there is a lot of things that I’ve learned along the way about being a founder and being an entrepreneur mainly the.

14:58.63

Shelby Sanderford

And.

15:10.54

Matt DeCoursey

Main thesis is it’s a lot harder than people think you know people think the entrepreneur or the business owner just goes home at night empties a bag of cash on the bed and rolls around in it and that’s not how it works you know like what what was something? What was one of the things that you found.

15:22.70

Shelby Sanderford

Um.

15:28.70

Matt DeCoursey

As a startup founder. There was a that you’re kind of that one of those Wow this is this I didn’t think it was going to be this hard.

15:34.52

Shelby Sanderford

Yes, and I you know I have certainly had plenty of those moments I think in you know every founder’s shoes. They have those setbacks and challenges and things that you just have to face and be like wow this is. Really not what I was expecting to pop up and ah you know I think it’s the the mental toughness and resiliency that ultimately gets you through those situations. So for me I try and look at it and through all the setbacks and challenges and obstacles and roadblocks and things that we’ve hit in this process. Just have to look at them and say okay, what’s the lesson that’s being taught here. There’s something from this that I can learn and walk away with and use somewhere down in the future. It may not be tomorrow. It may not be next month may not be next year but at some point it would probably come up and be helpful. What’s that piece of information I can take that’s a positive out of this situation and then move on go to the next thing and continue forward. Um, and for me that has certainly helped me a lot and after that you have to kind of have those reset moments where you just stop and say okay. Let me remind myself. Why am I doing this? What’s the why here and if that why is the winner and strong enough then you keep going you just keep doing it.

16:56.39

Matt DeCoursey

I think you you had a key you had a real important word which is passion and you know at this point you know hundreds and hundreds of hours and episodes and conversations later I think 1 thing that. Has stood out and I say this a lot and because it’s true and people need to know if you’re not passionate about the business or the solution that you’re trying to build or find you’re probably not going to find it and I say that because think well if it’s if it’s something really worth doing a big task. A big thing. And as an entrepreneur I really like to encourage people to try to build something bigger than themselves because that’s actually building something That’s when you build a business not just a job and the thing that I’ve learned is that and you know being an investor an entrepreneur ah podcast hosts an author and. Just a chaser of knowledge is that I don’t ever really talk to high-achieving people that aren’t super passionate about it and that’s because all the unworthy quit on the way in and you know and this is tough and like entrepreneurship challenges so many things and. Um, you know and I was joking the other the other day because we went and saw Elton John here in Kansas City and I told my wife I was like he looks younger than me and she’s like yeah, he’s not an entrepreneur though. Kind of as but I thought that was kind of funny because this way really will age you and’s there’s a lot to be said, there’s a lot of responsibility that comes in and um, you know I think also as an entrepreneur and a first lap around is there’s so many.

18:28.53

Shelby Sanderford

1 here.

18:36.65

Matt DeCoursey

Well, there’s so many one-time tasks I think one of the things with starting a new business is people don’t realize how many things you just have to do 1 time to like get the business even set up you know and and that can be really distracting you know and it can take a lot out of you. You know because it gets you away from where your head needs to be.

18:44.40

Shelby Sanderford

And.

18:55.11

Matt DeCoursey

To build the business or find the solution and I want to talk a little bit more about those solutions now. Yeah as a quick reminder I’m I’m having a conversation today with Shelby Sanderford and she is the founder and Ceo of 1 of startup hustle’s top new orleans startups if you want to hear that whole episode. It’s titled. Top New Orleans Startups so we’ve got ah a small class and a small group of of folks down there doing some really amazing stuff I’ve already had some really cool conversations with some other folks from from that group. So once again congratulations on that Shelby now. Before we continue our conversation. Another reminder that today’s episode to startup hustle is brought to you by fullscale io we help you build a team of software developers. There are 350000 open it jobs in the us right now and we can’t fill them. That means you’re going to have a hard time building a development team and we can help you with that and that’s actually kind of what I want to talk about for a second because um, you have different rules within healthcare meaning like hipaa and there’s a lot of data stuff that you have to deal with. Um, you know what? what is that a challenge.

20:10.16

Shelby Sanderford

It certainly you know was ah a task and a whole component of this that we had to figure out. Um, now we’ve you know had wonderful resources and counsel and and people who have helped us through that process but sure there was. Ah, ton that we had to you know nail down and figure out and especially with implementing a tech solution in healthcare care. Um, you know I think what has happened in healthcare and it’s finally is catching up to speed. Um at least in in my opinion. That for so long healthcare was just like 5 steps behind every other industry. Um, and really a lot of that was because of the challenges of the regulatory environment and I think now it’s kind of gotten to the place where these changes that need to be implemented in healthcare really aren’t.

21:03.20

Matt DeCoursey

E.

21:07.23

Shelby Sanderford

Ah, luxury. They’re more of a necessity like we have to make these changes if we want to keep up with the need of the patient. Yeah of the patient Population. So I’ve definitely seen a bigger shift in all of that. But um, and there’s more and more resources becoming available of all of the. Guidelines and things to follow and what you have to do to maintain hippa compliancy and all this stuff Now. So that is very helpful.

21:35.40

Matt DeCoursey

yeah and yeah I mentioned the experience with gigabook we don’t do medical I don’t want to store the data. You know it’s like it really does and and so you know I get calls a lot for these people like hey you know my my cousin’s a hairstylist and I think she might want to use gigabook and I’d lure I’ll be like no don’t. Tell her to go use 1 of the platforms that’s made specifically for that because there are some you know and and and that’s I think where you’ve seen software evolve and you know I look back. You have a scheduling. Platform I always joke about one of my biggest fails you know, gegabook and Callendley came out around similar times and they embraced freemium and at the time we were like why would we want to give this away for free. We know now. Ah, because you know that’s a $4000000000 company and with Callendley and you know they did. They did really well with that. But there’s a simplicity to their solution as well. So now without anyone can use it but it doesn’t have the customization or like with your case like. Specific use case for medical providers and doctors. But with that there’s ah I got to I got to feel like there’s that’s a whole nether spider web and rabbit hole to jump down. Is it a challenge is your solution made like is it kind of like an out of the box like any doctor can use it or does it have to have different. Builds iterations or like onboarding approaches to you know for like a a foot doctor is that a podiatrist. Ah you know a podiatrist as opposed to a heart surgeon probably like where where is how do you How do you deal with that.

23:05.30

Shelby Sanderford

Um.

23:14.60

Shelby Sanderford

Yeah, it’s a great question and without getting too technical here. So how it does work. We do I do I do integrate we do integrate with the existing scheduling platforms of the.

23:19.54

Matt DeCoursey

You can get technical if you want you can get technical I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we’ve been known to do that a little bit. Yeah.

23:32.19

Matt DeCoursey

Okay.

23:33.69

Shelby Sanderford

Doctors offices so that we can seamlessly you know fit in. We can get a practice set up in less than 24 hours so there is that component there. Um, but just more generally speaking we are specialty agnostic. So the the system was designed to work across all specialties and not. Um, really be confined to 1 specific one and that’s really in the the adaptability and flexibility of the the technology but at the top there we do integrate? yeah.

24:01.71

Matt DeCoursey

So it but but then but then that’s a different issue. So the simplicity of one solution reveals the complexity of another one which is integrating with other people’s stuff and.

24:13.41

Shelby Sanderford

Okay.

24:16.76

Matt DeCoursey

You know that’s like really like the modern thing you know I see and and you know what kind of like the the truth and the data here is about as accurate as you know one of those memes that you know is quoting Abraham Lincoln’s latest tweet or something you know because who knows but. You see all these things they’re like the average marketing company uses 8000000 different platforms. But it’s kind of true. You know I know that because I mean my oh my god there’s you know a zillion subscriptions that I have across 225 employees and then building software. Both for the platforms we own as well as for clients like I mean there is literally and ah like you could have a massive team of people that just worked on integrating your software with other things and they’d never hit bottom you know like it’s really that many and there are tools out there that help with that. But. Once again, another thing that just isn’t straightforward and it’s not It’s not super easy. So okay, different different subject and I like I have some notes here. So I’m I’m being encouraged to ask you if you agree with the hurry up and fail mindset.

25:22.56

Shelby Sanderford

Um, okay, let’s see I would say I’m definitely all about experiment learn quick adapt and move on to the next thing. So I think it aligns pretty closely with that mentality of of hurry up and and fail fast. So.

25:36.15

Matt DeCoursey

Car.

25:41.24

Shelby Sanderford

I think in this startup space and trying to get something up and going you do have to try a lot of things figure out what works what doesn’t work and try and do that as quickly as possible I think in each of those situations like it was kind of. Hinting out earlier is there is something to be learned and something that can be leveraged in some way shape or form. But then you know you adapt and pivot and keep going so perfect example of this was for us when the pandemic hit. Used to provide our solution on hardware so we gave doctors offices ipads to run everything on and um, you know as soon as gosh around March time of 20. We just had this realization of wow we need to completely move away from the hardware component. Um, and we were able to transform our entire solution and product and get it out into the market by may of 2020 which was pretty impressive turnaround time there for ah, a small but mighty team. So I think that’s a great example of a situation where we just you know learned. From what was happening in the environment in the industry and the world and how could we adapt and pivot and fit and make it an easier more seamless solution for our users.

27:02.72

Matt DeCoursey

So those of you listening obviously can’t see Shelby but I can so I’ll ask I see some stands behind you that look like a tablet what it fited in them is that what is that the remnants of that. Yeah yeah.

27:15.72

Shelby Sanderford

Spot on. Yep So ah.

27:20.35

Matt DeCoursey

Hey, by the way most businesses and entrepreneurs have ah have a bone yard of past somethings. You know like I and and I just got reminded of mine because I had to clean out a storage shed that I had for way too long and it was like a blast down. It was a blast in the past I was like whoa. Wow. and and I used to own a ticket brokerage too. So I found all kinds of weird stuff like Justin Bieber Christmas ornaments and you know now that was a treasure that was ah that was you know that was a treasure to find I almost called Justin Bieber a national treasure even though he’s canadian so you know that.

27:55.84

Shelby Sanderford

But.

27:57.84

Matt DeCoursey

It’s a good point. Um, now now with okay so you know I’ve talked to so many founders that have if you have a if your software has to work with hardware especially custom hardware ipads may be a little more predictable. But if you have like an actual like thing. Has to have software in it and communicate with something else. You have 2 products you’re building not just one did the move away from the Ipads or anything like that did that simplify stuff for you. Did that make make it a little easier.

28:22.74

Shelby Sanderford

Exactly Yes, so it ended up being you know a huge blessing in disguise. Even though we had to go through that rather quick transition and pivot. Um, now you know. You’re absolutely right? You have to then manage this whole component of the hardware and get it set up and have you know folks who can troubleshoot it and fix it and it’s a whole another component of the business and having it all be web-based and really more of that traditional Saas model. Um, has certainly helped streamline things and in that capacity So Good learning lesson.

29:05.35

Matt DeCoursey

You know on ah the flip side a flip side of that too in some cases if you get away from the hardware now you have to maybe build something that is compatible with a lot of different devices phones tablets operating systems and you know we’ve learned this. Through gosh I don’t even know where to start but people like you know they reach out on a software platform. They’re like ah this isn’t working properly so you get through the regular troubleshooting you’re like what version of Ios are you using? They’re like 6 you know it’s like 9 versions ago and you’re like okay so let’s start by you updating to something modern and they’re like well I haven’t gotten a new I’m on iphone 6 or something and you know here’s the thing like this is real people like this is the way it goes when you build software and hardware solutions like. Really can’t predict. Oh. How do I say this nicely where where people’s tech where your user’s technological shortfalls may exist that was yeah that wasn’t as nice as I can say that there you go.

30:10.13

Shelby Sanderford

Ah well I delivered um well delivered and it’s definitely. It’s definitely not the thing you you think about is like okay and then it has to work on.

30:12.10

Matt DeCoursey

Like threw my arms up in the air like I won something there because I you know realized I could go the wrong I could go the wrong place with that. Okay, so let’s see.

30:27.50

Shelby Sanderford

Google chrome and Safari and Firefox and this that and the other and it’s like.

30:29.69

Matt DeCoursey

And thank god they got rid of internet explorer because developers everywhere would hear internet explorer and go and hide they would like run away. They’re like I quit Safari’s kind of the same way honestly like my wife always uses safari I’m like you’re the last one Joe.

30:35.35

Shelby Sanderford

So.

30:48.11

Matt DeCoursey

You are the last one. Maybe So. Okay, so let’s let’s talk about something a little more serious here. So my my sister as an anesthesiologist and. She kind of jokes a lot because she feels that being a female in Healthcare has some challenges and some stuff and you know like she walks in a lot and they’ Nurse Nurse you know and and it’s you know it’s just something that’s kind of. She brushes off at this point but you know there’s been a lot of ah lot of of of discussion and very and deservedly so about the challenge of ah female founders and you know we don’t talk about raising Capital much of often So we’re going to not get into that. But. Have you has that have you found that to be a challenge or had some times when you’re like Wow I shouldn’t have to climb over this. You don’t have to throw anyone under the bus I’m just curious if that if that feels like you know these situations have impacted you.

31:39.66

Shelby Sanderford

My.

31:47.52

Shelby Sanderford

Yeah I mean it’s a great question and certainly certainly you know a relevant one and one that is talked about frequently now. Um, which I think will you know hopefully help shift a little bit of this narrative. But for me, it’s how I just look at you know how I. My perception of the situation and the way that I try and think about it. Um, and that is what ultimately helps me in the situations where I do feel Maybe I’m not being treated in the same way that someone ah would treat you know a male equivalent in my shoes. But. Um, you know for me I really try and look at it and say well this could be just as much of a benefit and a positive. Um, you know it maybe I stand out. Maybe I’m the only female in the room. Maybe that makes me more memorable. Um, so I think there’s a lot of ways that you can shift the perception there and tell the narrative in a more positive light and for me and and the way that I kind of approach it all that just really helps my mindset about everything. Um, that’s not to say it’s easy to do. Ah, definitely takes work and you know mental toughness to be in those situations and not get crushed and crumbled and brought down. So um, there’s certainly a lot of work to be done there. But I think it definitely helps me to. Try and see well. How can it be just as much a positive and empower those situations.

33:25.20

Matt DeCoursey

I Want to point out to our listeners that I think that you have the right attitude for an entrepreneur in general like we’ve talked about failures challenges sexism.

33:30.98

Shelby Sanderford

And.

33:38.89

Matt DeCoursey

You know, just like a lot of stuff and the the thing is is like you can you know all right? So as a business owner. What’s in the rearview mirrors in the River you mirror you either learn from it in the future and you don’t hit the same Ops. You don’t hit the same thing in the road next time. If you spend your time just looking in the Rearview Mirror. You don’t see what’s coming in front of you and then also like I don’t know man like people are just kind of dumb sometimes man like with the way that they treat others. It’s unfair. It’s Uncool and it’s unneeded. But that said those aren’t always things you can Control. So if you want to let it eat you up,? You’re kind of playing end to the haters. The haters you know magnet there. You’re getting sucked in and yeah, my sisters have you know as a doctor she’s like they know she’s the doctor and they’re like can you go get a male doctor.

34:17.70

Shelby Sanderford

No no.

34:27.12

Matt DeCoursey

I’m like what is wrong with you people like I wouldn’t react to that very well I’m not very good with those situations. So sometimes you got to bite your lip and sometimes you don’t so all right? So once again, shut you good.

34:30.21

Shelby Sanderford

And.

34:38.69

Shelby Sanderford

You made it but I was just going to say you you pointed out something I think that’s really important and especially in the founder shoes on this journey is there are so many things that happen that are out of your control. And I think those are the things that can get you caught up and you know down or maybe even like wanting to stop and not keep pushing and trying and if you can shift the focus and attention to Well. There’s just as many things that are in my control. And if I focus on those things and I’m taking positive steps and going in the right direction and taking action. Um, so you know we can’t We can’t control the things that aren’t in our control like someone else’s opinions and perception on a situation are the way that they ah you know. Maybe speak to someone but you can control how you perceive that information what you take away from it. What your actions are and how you move forward with it. So for me, that’s a big a big guider in my life.

35:40.92

Matt DeCoursey

Yeah, and that’s I mean that’s that’s the most That’s the most. It’s a most productive outcome and way to look at that and you know I haven’t had to deal with I set with a lot of the challenges that many of my guests minority founders, female founders and just members of of you know. Just you know there’s a lot There’s a lot of challenges for a lot of people. So first off be respectful of other people’s situations you know like yeah in most of the time you’re being rude to people that are trying to help you folks. So don’t you know the best way to get help is to make it easy for people to help you. And um I actually I I woke up and opened Facebook this morning and I saw it reminding me of saying that a year ago because I get frustrated with people because you know a lot of times with the role that I’m in either at full scale or. Being an investor being a known entrepreneur and people want their hey I’d really love to get some help and then you offer to help them and they make it really difficult for you to help them and it’s like you’re sitting there going man I got a million other things I can do right now you know I really do and you’re making it a challenge for me to do you a favor so you know if you want to.

36:50.49

Shelby Sanderford

No no.

36:53.51

Matt DeCoursey

You want people to help you make it easy to help and you know that’s going to help us. Well, you know you can help me with we can answer the question. Do you actually see a timer Yes, so yeah, for those of you talking for those of you listening we were I do a little.

37:01.00

Shelby Sanderford

I Do I see a timer at the top of the screen. Ah.

37:11.60

Matt DeCoursey

Spiel on the way to hitting record and 1 of it is like 1 of it’s like hey when you see this amount of time. No I’m probably getting close to end of the episode and then I realized there was no timer and she asked is there a type do well I see a timer I said that’s a great question I’ve never been the guest. So.

37:25.66

Shelby Sanderford

Must graph.

37:27.90

Matt DeCoursey

But we’re just solving problems left and right today shall we left and right now part of why I needed to know the timer is because you know we aim for a specific length of the show and it’s also time. The founders freestyle now before we jump into that today’s episode once again was brought to you by fullscale io hoping you build a software team quickly and affordably go to the get started page full scale io it takes 2 minutes to answer the questions and we will get back with you about whether or not we can help so you know with. With everything we have gone through and talked about today. There’s a lot of things that we often leave out and that’s what the founder’s freestyle exists for is allowing us to catch up. It’s how I end my episodes to say my episodes I’m not the only host make sure you tune in Weekly. With Andrew Morgans talking all about ecommerce and Amazon and Lauren Conaway the founder of innovate her weekly shows for a long time now. So you probably know that. But if you don’t great content there. So Shelby as we wrap up today’s episode is there anything that you didn’t get to mention or things that stood out that you found helpful from our conversation.

38:38.90

Shelby Sanderford

Oh I absolutely enjoyed this conversation and and thank you so much for for taking the time to chat with me and and explore some of these ah you know topics and the topics that aren’t always easy topics to to talk about. So I certainly appreciate bringing attention to them. Um, one one thought that I do have you know for for those listening and and for you as well. Matt is to really think about what are you waiting for? I think Doc Pace is a really good example of you know you might think you understand um. What the problem is but if you dig a little bit deeper and look a little bit harder. There’s actually a totally different problem. Um or challenge down underneath and I think a lot of times in the in the founder shoes. It’s the thing that or I’m sorry and in the. And the dreamers and the people who have these ideas and they think of something completely brilliant and want to get started but don’t know where to start I want you to I want to challenge you to really think about what are you waiting for and dig a little deeper because oftentimes if you just start. And get going on the path then the things that are deeper underneath. There will unfold and you can um you know chase that dream that you’re after so ah, wanted to share that little piece of advice if you’re. Thinking of an idea or have something you want to explore that you’ve been curious about or passionate about you know, just take 1 step and do something to learn a little bit more about it and along the way you’ll discover what’s.

40:24.12

Matt DeCoursey

Jump and build wings people right stuff. You know my book in my in my book million dollar bedroom which by the way you can get on Kendall for a buck ninety nine that’s the cheapest that Amazon will let me sell it because.

40:28.44

Shelby Sanderford

Yes, yes, just go for it.

40:41.54

Matt DeCoursey

I don’t really care about the revenue from the book I care about the fact that it’s my manual for helping you people ask me all the time i’ like how do you do so much stuff you have the podcast you have this, you have full scale. You do this? You do that two kids you know, first off I have great supporting staff and my wife deserves so much of the credit for clearing. Path for me, but you know and and in my book balanced me I talk about the right time myth. So we kind of you know we kind of forked into 2 different things like what are you waiting for in the and the patient waiting room and also what are you waiting for as an entrepreneur now when I say the right time myth.

41:12.22

Shelby Sanderford

And.

41:17.48

Matt DeCoursey

If you find yourself saying these words. It’s not the right time. That’s actually you just giving yourself justification for why you’re not doing what you really want to or should be doing Now. There are very few instances and some do make In fact, make sense when it might not be the right time but that’s not usually the context like you know I’m talking if you just came out of ah open heart surgery and you’re in the middle of Cardiac Rehab You might not want to start a business right now. Like heal yourself up. But if you’re telling yourself. It’s not the right time for this.. It’s not the right time for that know that that is usually an excuse and because you’re telling you’re giving yourself a safety net and so Justification is when you give yourself an excuse reason or a why for why? you’re not doing what. You feel you could or should so it really is a myth now there isn’t and the reason it’s a myth is there’s not a perfect time.. There’s not a perfect time to make major life changes. It’s not the right time to have a kid. It’s not the right time to to buy a house like ask yourself why you know are you using that as an excuse because. You know and I say sometimes you do just have to jump and then build wings. You know that’s the the take on a leap of faith or or however, you want to look at it but making big change is big. It’s a big thing and people don’t like change so it’s going to.. It’s going to feel abrasive. It’s going to feel Rocky. It’s going to feel rough and it’s going to feel stressful but there’s something when I say jump and then build wings just make sure you have the stuff to build the wings before you leap and if you do there’s something about the impending Doom. Of hitting the Canyon floor that will make you build those wings pretty fast. So but really, that’s it I mean that’s and you know, no one has ah if you do have a functioning working crystal ball call me because I have yet to meet anyone that does so no one really knows what’s going to Happen. You just got to get in there and you got to be resilient. You have to have a positive attitude. And in my spare time recently I’ve been studying what makes people perform at a high level. What makes people do Genius things and I have yet to find any indication that any people that really do Genius stuff are negative. They believe that they can do it or they believe that they can at least. Have enough belief in themselves to keep on failing quickly because it gets them closer. They don’t look at a failure as a fail they’re I’m one I’m hopefully one step closer to the to the not fail and that’s the whole mentality there. But.

43:54.60

Matt DeCoursey

Really in the end I mean I’ve talked to so many high performing people and they all believe that they can and they all are we look. We’re all scared at 1 point all of us as entrepreneurs we had. We had fear some of us learned how to deal with it better than others. Some of us learned how to not deal with it and they are. Stressed out business owners or they quit but it’s part of the game. So you know what playing field you’re getting on and if you don’t think it’s the right one for you then perhaps don’t jump in build wings. You know it’s it’s okay, but it’s not for everyone. So anyway, that’s my ah. That’s my ah, my short ah tirade on why you should go out and do it I mean Nike says it best people just do it so I’m going to go do that Shelby thanks for joining me and folks go click the link in the show notes.